Rendered: The Production Lexus LF-1 Limitless Crossover

I had wanted this to be called LX SportCross, since GLE Coupe exists below that and keeps GLE nameplate.

According to a Lexus forum member (same guy who saw 2018 LS in early-mid 2016), he's seen the whole modular MHA CUV family, which look better than before. MB is going to become a real threat soon. GLS X167, W167 GLE, C167, and V167.

meth.ix

I honestly don't think that Lexus needs any SUV coupes, at least for now. Right now, they need to focus on perfecting the current SUV lineup, which will most likely get the most sales. Making the RX a slightly bigger, RWD-based SUV to properly compete with the X5 and GLE-Class, improving the NX and LX interior, etc. SUV Coupes are just too niche for Lexus to produce right now, especially without as much of a "cool" brand image that many X6 and GLE-Class Coupe owners care about.

That's why the LQ will probably be the only "Q" model for a while. Anyways, "Q" doesn't really mean SUV Coupe. For all we know they could just be called something like NX Coupe.

I think your suggestion would be answered with the redesign of those SUV. Especially using the UX as an example.

Carmaker1

I had wanted this to be called LX SportCross, since GLE Coupe exists below that and keeps GLE nameplate.

According to a Lexus forum member (same guy who saw 2018 LS in early-mid 2016), he's seen the whole modular MHA CUV family, which look better than before. MB is going to become a real threat soon. GLS X167, W167 GLE, C167, and V167.

Since you have a very good insight on how most of the automaker operate, do you know if automakers have an idea of what's in the pipeline for their competitors?

bogglo

Since you have a very good insight on how most of the automaker operate, do you know if automakers have an idea of what's in the pipeline for their competitors?

In many cases, yes. Industry access areas do indicate this, but not for all models all the time. New nameplates are not always available to see.

Carmaker1

I honestly get so tired of editing my posts, because of stupid autocorrect and voice to text screwing it up. I am very pedantic and particular about accuracy and good grammar. Please excuse me.

No worries because I edit my posts all the time when I spot errors. That is an old habit I developed in College since I wanted to try my best to hide my identity as a non-native English speaker.

Thank you very much for your insightful post, as always. I know something important is happening, when Mr.Carmaker1 logs in and posts lengthy replies; I assume many members of this forum think the same.

meth.ix

I honestly don't think that Lexus needs any SUV coupes, at least for now. Right now, they need to focus on perfecting the current SUV lineup, which will most likely get the most sales. Making the RX a slightly bigger, RWD-based SUV to properly compete with the X5 and GLE-Class

Making the RX RWD based and giving it +300 PS is all that is needed to compete against the Germans, if it continues looking this good. Except for the FWD overhang, the current RX it is the best looking CUV out there.

Carmaker1

MB is going to become a real threat soon. GLS X167, W167 GLE, C167, and V167.

Why are there two codes for each?
GLE Wagon = W167
GLS Wagon = X167
GLE Coupe = C167 ?
GLS Coupe = V167 ?

Anyway, it looks like X7 and GLS will remain a souped-up X5 and GLE. Do not the Guard versions have a different code? Why no TMC factory armored cars?

Carmaker1

I am very pedantic and particular about accuracy and good grammar. Please excuse me.

ssun30

No worries because I edit my posts all the time when I spot errors.

That makes 3 of us. I do the same thing.

ssun30

Thank you very much for your insightful post, as always. I know something important is happening, when Mr.Carmaker1 logs in and posts lengthy replies; I assume many members of this forum think the same.

Absolutely! :thumbsup:

Joaquin Ruhi

That makes 3 of us. I do the same thing.


Absolutely! :thumbsup:

ditto ... ditto ... ditto! :)

Slap me in as a part of that list too. I also am very critical on myself when I create statements and replies. So hey, you're amazing for giving us so much insight, I really appreciate it. You know, I find it really fun to write in an articulate manner. Gives this form a level of class that no other forums have and gives me a level of satisfaction. Like everyone else, I really love reading your posts.

I don't think we need to put this much pressure on ourselves (even though it's fun to write novels in forum posting), because this forum, because of the community is what makes it so special. I have never seen any other forums that are so adamant on having good grammar. It just makes this forum that much better to be a part of.

I just have to say , once they keep that split light spoiler , and rear end I am in .

ssun30

No worries because I edit my posts all the time when I spot errors. That is an old habit I developed in College since I wanted to try my best to hide my identity as a non-native English speaker.

Thank you very much for your insightful post, as always. I know something important is happening, when Mr.Carmaker1 logs in and posts lengthy replies; I assume many members of this forum think the same.

Well, thanks that is very strongly appreciated! Glad to know I am not rambling instead.:laughing:

I think what bothers me, is what is read or quoted by others before catching my typo and possibly being misconstrued in the process.

Joaquin Ruhi

That makes 3 of us. I do the same thing.


Absolutely! :thumbsup:

Thanks, but at least your final edit comes out as clean! In many cases my final edit is, by chance, so typo-laden, that i can't imagine if it is unnerving for other parties to read coherently. Since much of the Lexus stories I am writing, 70% of info is in Japanese and being pieced together from other language sources and for 5LS requires so much vetting of accuracy, one can see why it is taking a billion years for me to produce results.

RAL

ditto ... ditto ... ditto! ... that makes 4 of us! :)
And may I echo everyone else's appreciation of @Carmaker1 :cool:

Thank you, very much appreciated! Even though I have promised 5LS story this month, but still working on fine-tuning it.

F1 Silver Arrows

Slap me in as a part of that list too. I also am very critical on myself when I create statements and replies. So hey, you're amazing for giving us so much insight, I really appreciate it. You know, I find it really fun to write in an articulate manner. Gives this form a level of class that no other forums have and gives me a level of satisfaction. Like everyone else, I really love reading your posts.

I don't think we need to put this much pressure on ourselves (even though it's fun to write novels in forum posting), because this forum, because of the community is what makes it so special. I have never seen any other forums that are so adamant on having good grammar. It just makes this forum that much better to be a part of.

I know, right? My style of posting isn't for everyone, but it is really to make up for a dearth of info and details in the mainstream automotive media world, where everyone else has to pick up the slack and do it some justice. There is only one other forum I could name with such intellectual discussiom, but bias is way too teutonic there, that I could not even tolerate the level of abuse levied at my employer JLR ever so often.

In fact, regarding "teutonic motor f--r-m";), Lexus really gets a very bad shake often. I mean, damn. For double standard reasons, Bentley and Rolls-Royce only get paid attention to, solely over their parent company. Plus cross-pollination with Italian brand fanboyism (VAG connection for Lambo). Everything else, suffers in disregard or biased criticism. I am well respected there, but sometimes a very tough environment to live up to regarding posted content. I do not play favorites.

It explains why I try to match it or do better here, with some more leeway. Most other members of the industry on forums, are a little too mute and arrogant in their approach, essentially gas-lighting people inquiring or being terribly dismissive (from my curious observation). I try to be better than that, unless directly insulted.

Levi

Making the RX RWD based and giving it +300 PS is all that is needed to compete against the Germans, if it continues looking this good. Except for the FWD overhang, the current RX it is the best looking CUV out there.



Why are there two codes for each?
GLE Wagon = W167
GLS Wagon = X167
GLE Coupe = C167 ?
GLS Coupe = V167 ?

Anyway, it looks like X7 and GLS will remain a souped-up X5 and GLE. Do not the Guard versions have a different code? Why no TMC factory armored cars?

I really wish 760X RX program was made for GA-L and not GA-K. They are probably far along on it at this point, entering mid-stages and set for 2021. Because of Cambridge, Ontario connection to N. Amer., I have been able to see some info on that car, unlike Japan-only assembled Lexus.

That is how I unearthed the development code. Source claimed 600X NX will be added to TMMC? A lot of Toyota development codes hidden out there in Japanese text sites, then verified (by me) via database for global suppliers.

The 2016 RX was the best selling year ever, a good jump from MY 2015. Bear in mind sales pretty much started in December 2015 and Europe in Q1 2016, so much of the Year-To-Date fell within 2016 itself. Yet so many criticisms about "it won't sell".

C167 is the GLE coupe (but of course you know that);)
Maybe V167 is the 4-seater Maybach GLS? That is the code I found for manfacturing, staring in 2019 (can't remember date). That idea to stupidly, forever tie the GLE (nee ML) and GLS (nee GL) has forever been a cynical one, that I am emphatically tired of!

Between assembling it in the middle of Alabama, building as an extended length GLE (AGAIN!), and saving money on the interior, the profit margin must be immense. All these new modular architectures at MB, are nothing more than a way justify resurrection of past high-end products or blur the lines of connections between models.

The CLK/E Coupe was nothing more than a fancy 2-door C-Class, until modular MRA made it easier to create a proper E Coupe. After C124 and A124 ended in 1997, it was just that. Now MHA conveniently allows GLE and GLS to go their separate ways, but how true is this?

Also, I had partly lost interest in the X7 (too long rollout) and stopped paying close attention, so hearing it's really a larger G05 X5 is unfortunate. Really shocked to hear this, considering my mother wanted a proper 7er-related crossover alongside M760i. No wonder no V12 as you said elsewhere.

As for factory armoured Toyotas, I really have to wonder if it interferes with their business model(s)? Can't say I agree with that, as the Land Cruiser and LX are probably the world's most armoured vehicles on average, in terms of sheer volume. Then again, they still haven't made Lexus have a fully global presence, so can't say I am surprised how they skip or sleep on these things.

As I had said on Thursday night about X8, BMW has now as of Friday confirmed the X8 SAV, which will complete design freeze later this year and be released parallel to the Lexus LQ, its primary competitor in late 2020.

Carmaker1

In fact, regarding "teutonic motor f--r-m";), Lexus really gets a very bad shake often. I mean, damn. For double standard reasons, Bentley and Rolls-Royce only get paid attention to, solely over their parent company. Plus cross-pollination with Italian brand fanboyism (VAG connection for Lambo). Everything else, suffers in disregard or biased criticism.

That place is terrible. It is fine if they like something more, but that place has turned out to be extremely aggressive and lacks any worthy discussions now, it is all about insulting others. I have noticed it started by the roundel clan, but mostly a very few members, if not a single one. But that or those members are protected by a moderator in the same clan that refuses to take any measures.

Carmaker1

As for factory armoured Toyotas, I really have to wonder if it interferes with their business model(s)? Can't say I agree with that, as the Land Cruiser and LX are probably the world's most armoured vehicles on average, in terms of sheer volume. Then again, they still haven't made Lexus have a fully global presence, so can't say I am surprised how they skip or sleep on these things.

Engineering a car to be armored from start must result in a better overall and more discrete product. Conversions can take longer, quality is slightly different between armoring companies. If TMC had such a division, they could earn quite a chunk of the market. I do not know if Toyota engineers its Land Cruiser at least with armor in mind.

Carmaker1

As I had said on Thursday night about X8 (without prior knowledge of confirmation), BMW has now as of Friday confirmed the X8 SAV, which will complete design freeze later this year and be released parallel to the Lexus LQ, its primary competitor in late 2020.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/2020-bmw-x8-range-rover-rival-edges-closer-production

If the X8 will be to the X7 what X6 is to X5 and X4 is to X3, It will not stand out well or feel that special. BMW's SAV/SAC cars are more like sedan/wagon pairs in terms of difference, so no exclusivity or anything special.

Carmaker1

I really wish 760X RX program was made for GA-L and not GA-K. They are probably far along on it at this point, entering mid-stages and set for 2021. Because of Cambridge, Ontario connection to N. Amer., I have been able to see some info on that car, unlike Japan-only assembled Lexus.

That is how I unearthed the development code.

I've seen stray comments on this site suggesting that the next RX would move to the GA-L RWD-centric platform. Much as I would've loved to see that happen, my reaction was somewhere between a raised eyebrow and WTF deep skepticism. I'm not the least bit surprised that conventional wisdom prevailed and that RX will continue to be transverse-engined and FWD-centric, and sit on the GA-K architecture.

Carmaker1

Source claimed 600X NX will be added to TMMC? A lot of Toyota development codes hidden out there in Japanese text sites, then verified (by me) via database for global suppliers.

Again, I'm not the least bit surprised. Given the Toyota RAV4 (Lexus NX's fraternal twin) moving from the smaller New MC to the larger TNGA-K and the expansion of Canadian RAV4 production into the Cambridge plant (which already hosts a dedicated Lexus RX production line), I'd say this move would be a natural.

Carmaker1

Also, I had partly lost interest in the BMW X7 (too-long rollout) and stopped paying close attention, so hearing it's really a larger G05 X5 is unfortunate. Really shocked to hear this, considering my mother wanted a proper 7er-related crossover alongside M760i. No wonder no V12 as you said elsewhere.

Makes sense to me, yet the Autocar article you linked contains these passages:

Autocar

Discussions are believed to centre on the platform structure the X8 would need and whether it should be a coupé version of the X7...

...As such, the emphasis will be on delivering luxurious rear-seat travel, with the materials and finishes chosen to further that goal, rather than being focused on outright practicality.

While the latter idea is said to be favoured by many, it potentially adds complexity to the project as it may require the car to be built on a hybrid mix of BMW’s CLAR modular platform, which underpins the firm’s other X models, and the Rolls-Royce Cullinan’s new aluminium structure in order to achieve rigidity without adding too much weight or cost...

...Power is likely to come from the same powertrains as for the X7, although the sales focus in China, Russia and the Middle East may mean that initial offerings are confined to higher-powered petrol or plug-in petrol-electric hybrid drivelines. Given those target markets, the possibility of a V12-engined X8, powered by the 592bhp, 590lb ft 6.6-litre unit that is found in the 7 Series, is highly likely.

The question is: will X8 be simply be an X7 coupe, thus making Autocar's speculation wrong, or will X8 have that differentiation from X7?

Joaquin Ruhi

The question is: will X8 be simply be an X7 coupe, thus making Autocar's speculation wrong, or will X8 have that differentiation from X7?

Knowing how cheap BMW is, highly unlikely that the X8 will be anything else than an X7 coupe. BMW has long resisted bringing back the CSL badge, now it will return, because BMW found out how to rip-off fanboys. BMW had the 2 coupe, 4 coupe and 6 coupe, which are simply 2 door versions of 1 hatch, 3 sedan and 5 sedan. Should not be different with the X line. Even so, the X2 does not differentiate enough from the X1, other than markup.

Carmaker1

I had wanted this to be called LX SportCross, since GLE Coupe exists below that and keeps GLE nameplate.

I was thinking LS Sportcross similar to the IS Sportcross but by creating a new model line Lexus can do much more.

LQ 500 (V35A-FTS)
LQ 500h (8GR-FXS)
LQ F (V50A-FTS, twin turbo V8)

Lexus can also expand the "Q" crossover coupe and include more affordable lines such as GQ (mid-level) and RQ (entry-level).

GQ 350 (2GR-FSE)
RQ 250 (4GR-FSE)

Guys, what if we're thinking about this all wrong?

LS - Luxury Sedan
LC - Luxury Coupe
LX - Luxury Crossover

Lexus has called the LF-1 "a new flagship luxury crossover." What if they made the LF-1 the new LX line? This would avoid having to rename the RX to the RQ and risk losing mindshare on its most popular model with a new name. All crossovers then would be under the #X moniker and Lexus would still be open to shifting them over to the RWD/GA-L platform.

What about the current LX/GX? Well, they can be placed under the new LQ/GQ line. Maybe it makes more sense to rename the rugged SUVs to a new line than having to rename the RX down the road.

With the timing of trademark filing, this is very unlikely at this point, as carmaker has stated. But what if? #thinkdifferent

mordecai

What about the current LX/GX? Well, they can be placed under the new LQ/GQ line. Maybe it makes more sense to rename the rugged SUVs to a new line than having to rename the RX down the road.

With the timing of trademark filing, this is very unlikely at this point, as carmaker has stated. But what if? #thinkdifferent

That's an interesting thought. Although the chance of that happening is very low.

mordecai

Guys, what if we're thinking about this all wrong?

LS - Luxury Sedan
LC - Luxury Coupe
LX - Luxury Crossover

Lexus has called the LF-1 "a new flagship luxury crossover." What if they made the LF-1 the new LX line? This would avoid having to rename the RX to the RQ and risk losing mindshare on its most popular model with a new name. All crossovers then would be under the #X moniker and Lexus would still be open to shifting them over to the RWD/GA-L platform.

What about the current LX/GX? Well, they can be placed under the new LQ/GQ line. Maybe it makes more sense to rename the rugged SUVs to a new line than having to rename the RX down the road.

With the timing of trademark filing, this is very unlikely at this point, as carmaker has stated. But what if? #thinkdifferent

Well first LX is very successful and established vehicle, and then it is always going to be very different from LQ.

Then LX and LQ are very, very complimentary vehicles .

An Italian coach builder is coming at the luxury sedan/crossover from the exact other direction. They're bolting a sedan-ish body onto a Ram 1500 frame so you have a real live body-on-frame luxobarge just like Detroit used to make. Except uglier.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cu...tivation-behind-this-truck-sedan-abomination/

https://www.quintessa.com/