Toyota Supra fans....Looks like a new one might be on the way.

mmcartalk

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It's been long time since we've last had a new Supra here in the American market. The last one was discontinued in the 1990s, but, after going on almost 20 years, by 2018, courtesy of both Toyota and BMW, that may be changing.


http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/2018-toyota-supra-performance-news-specs/


Details are starting to emerge about the sports cars that Toyota and BMW are jointly developing. Toyota’s model will be billed as a long-awaited successor to the iconic Supra, while BMW’s version of the car will replace the Z4 roadster.

Both cars will ride on a brand new chassis that will make extensive use of lightweight materials such as aluminum and carbon fiber. Described by insiders as a frame-based format, the chassis will allow each brand to design completely different bodies that will not look anything alike.

“The Toyota variant’s exterior styling was finalized in the third quarter of last year, but you’ll be surprised at how good it looks. The car does not look like a Toyota,” revealed a source close to the car maker in an interview with Australian magazine Motoring.

A rendering published in the latest issue of Japanese magazine HolidayAuto gives us a plausible idea of what it could look like.

The two cars will stretch approximately 177 inches long, 72 inches wide, and 52 inches tall, dimensions that will make them about as big as a rear-wheel drive Porsche 911.

BMW’s version of the car will launch with two gasoline-burning engines designed in-house and a plug-in hybrid drivetrain developed by Toyota. Base models will get a turbocharged 2.0-liter four-cylinder rated at 241 horsepower and 258 foot-pounds of torque. Midrange models will be powered by a turbocharged 3.0-liter straight-six tuned to make 335 ponies and over 331 foot-pounds of twist. Finally, range-topping versions will benefit from a 473-horsepower gasoline-electric drivetrain made up of the aforementioned six-cylinder and a Toyota-supplied electric motor.

Interestingly, the Toyota-badged version will forego the smaller four-banger and it will only be offered with the straight-six and the plug-in hybrid drivetrain. The Japanese car maker presumably wants to ensure the Supra will not overlap with the next generation of the Scion FR-S.

While BMW is very secretive about its next Z4, Toyota has hinted that it will preview the upcoming Supra with a close-to-production concept that will be introduced either next January at the Detroit Motor Show or the following March at the Geneva Motor Show.

Both cars are scheduled to go on sale globally in 2018. An earlier report claims the Supra will cost more than a Chevrolet Corvette Stingray, which carries a base price of $55,000 before a mandatory destination charge is factored in.

(my comment.....here's another shot, but it differs from the one in the article somewhat)

toyota-ft-1-concept.jpg
 

IS-SV

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Interesting article. Thanks, I'll forward to my friend that keeps a mostly original '88 Supra running well (no small task, that gen was not reliable) , he will enjoy article.
 

mmcartalk

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Hope this doesn't take the thread too far off-topic, but I myself am of the general opinion that we didn't HAVE to lose the last Supra when we did in 1998......nor its main competitors, the Dodge Stealth, Mitsubishi 3000 GT, Mazda RX-7, and Nissan 300ZX. All of these vehicles were dropped for more or less the same reasons.....high price, low sales, and relatively hard-to-get insurance with high premiums. All three reasons, IMO, could have been relatively easily dealt with simply by making less-expensive and perhaps de-contented versions of each that would have probably increased sales and lowered insurance. But, instead of doing that, all of these manufacturers, instead, hung tough, kept the prices and equipment levels up, and, when sales dried up, just yanked all of them from the American market instead. To be fair, though, the 3000 GT probably would have dried up sooner or later just from Mitsubishi's general decline in the U.S., and the RX-8, with its half-rear-doors and non-turbo Genesis rotary engine, never had the appeal or reputation that the RX-7 did.

On a slightly different note, the last Supra had one of the best and most durable engines Toyota ever produced...the 3.0 straight-six. The 3.0 in the Lexus IS300 I owned was a slightly differently-tuned version of the one used in the last non-turbo American-market Supra. It tended to be a gas hog on premium fuel (comparable to Toyota's 4.0L and 4.3L V8s)...but was smooth and refined as silk. They also routinely ran 200-300K, even 300K+ mies.
 
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mikeavelli

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I actually got to spend quite some time with the chief engineer and some of his team in Miami a couple of weeks ago. I can''t share anything but lets just say his favorite car is the 911, which bodes for great things :)
 

IS-SV

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I actually got to spend quite some time with the chief engineer and some of his team in Miami a couple of weeks ago. I can''t share anything but lets just say his favorite car is the 911, which bodes for great things :)

Agreed, super news! My favorite driving cars from my personal experience/perspective are 911 and Boxster. It's hard to explain because it's way more than just being about speed.

The body dimensions alone of this Supra are nice and trim accordingly.
 

mmcartalk

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I actually got to spend quite some time with the chief engineer and some of his team in Miami a couple of weeks ago. I can''t share anything but lets just say his favorite car is the 911, which bodes for great things :)

I've been wrong before (and may be so again), but, from the article's description of both the proposed BMW and Toyota drivetrains, it sounds like it would rule out a 911-style rear-engine layout, unless they use a Subaru flat-four or big flat-six and turbocharging. Toyota, of course, as Subaru's part-owner, already has access to some Subaru power plants, as we saw in the BR-Z and FR-S. But the article seems to suggest front-mounted in-line or V-powerplants.

I won't speculate any more, though........I know you'll tell us when the time comes. ;)

Agreed, super news! My favorite driving cars from my personal experience/perspective are 911 and Boxster. It's hard to explain because it's way more than just being about speed.

Totally agreed on the Boxster (haven't driven a 911 recently). I test-drove a Boxster not very long ago (on a friend's request), and found it, without question, one of the most well-balanced and best-engineered pure sports cars I had ever sampled. It offered Miata-style agility/handling precision with a lot more refinement and without the numbing vibrations and harshness one often feels in a Miata.
 
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IS-SV

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I've been wrong before (and may be so again), but, from the article's description of both the proposed BMW and Toyota drivetrains, it sounds like it would rule out a 911-style rear-engine layout, unless they use a Subaru flat-four or big flat-six and turbocharging. Toyota, of course, as Subaru's part-owner, already has access to some Subaru power plants, as we saw in the BR-Z and FR-S. But the article seems to suggest front-mounted in-line or V-powerplants.

I won't speculate any more, though........I know you'll tell us when the time comes. ;)

I will let Mike reply directly. But of course nobody here is suggesting a rear-engine layout is part of the new Supra.

When the 911 is mentioned, it's more about sizing (l/w/h), weight, driving feel, and overall driving experience combined with high level of luxury which is really very unique and very rewarding for the driver. No other non-exotic car has duplicated this kind of sports car driving experience (yes, it's expensive). If the chief engineer says his favorite car is 911 and his design goals include achieving a similar driving experience, that's great news. I hope that helps some...
 
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mikeavelli

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Yeah for sure the new Supra/BMW Z4 won't be rear engine. I'm referring to the way the 911 drives and in the past month (I REALLY need to make some time for reviews) I driven
911 Convertible
911 4S Convertible
911 Turbo S Coupe

which to me were so engaging I am still thinking about them. I literally woke up extra early to drive the 4S it was so addicting.

Knowing the chief engineer (who makes me look like a rookie in regards to cars :D) loves the 911 as much as I do gives me confidence in the way the car will drive and handle including power delivery. You simply can't go wrong using the 911 as a Benchmark.

And with the way recent BMW's drive, they could use the help too.
 

mmcartalk

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loves the 911 as much as I do gives me confidence in the way the car will drive and handle including power delivery. You simply can't go wrong using the 911 as a Benchmark.

I certainly agree on the ones built in, say, the last 15-20 years....and with almost any newer Porsche, for that matter. But the older rear-engined ones, before suspension/tire improvements and electronic traction/stability-aids, were notorious for drop-throttle snap-oversteer in the corners, which often meant a spin-out or winding up in the ditch. Being an auto engineer, he was probably familiar with those older 911s himself.

And with the way recent BMW's drive, they could use the help too.

The switch to electric power steering is probably the main thing hurting BMW today. The older hydraulic units were some of the best available.
 

IS-SV

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No rear-engine Supra as said before, obviously.

Electric steering can be designed with good feel and feedback as done by Mazda and Porsche today, I expect new Supra (with 911 as benchmark) to achieve similar results.
 

Och

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It's been long time since we've last had a new Supra here in the American market. The last one was discontinued in the 1990s, but, after going on almost 20 years, by 2018, courtesy of both Toyota and BMW, that may be changing.


http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/2018-toyota-supra-performance-news-specs/


Details are starting to emerge about the sports cars that Toyota and BMW are jointly developing. Toyota’s model will be billed as a long-awaited successor to the iconic Supra, while BMW’s version of the car will replace the Z4 roadster.

Both cars will ride on a brand new chassis that will make extensive use of lightweight materials such as aluminum and carbon fiber. Described by insiders as a frame-based format, the chassis will allow each brand to design completely different bodies that will not look anything alike.

“The Toyota variant’s exterior styling was finalized in the third quarter of last year, but you’ll be surprised at how good it looks. The car does not look like a Toyota,” revealed a source close to the car maker in an interview with Australian magazine Motoring.

A rendering published in the latest issue of Japanese magazine HolidayAuto gives us a plausible idea of what it could look like.

The two cars will stretch approximately 177 inches long, 72 inches wide, and 52 inches tall, dimensions that will make them about as big as a rear-wheel drive Porsche 911.

BMW’s version of the car will launch with two gasoline-burning engines designed in-house and a plug-in hybrid drivetrain developed by Toyota. Base models will get a turbocharged 2.0-liter four-cylinder rated at 241 horsepower and 258 foot-pounds of torque. Midrange models will be powered by a turbocharged 3.0-liter straight-six tuned to make 335 ponies and over 331 foot-pounds of twist. Finally, range-topping versions will benefit from a 473-horsepower gasoline-electric drivetrain made up of the aforementioned six-cylinder and a Toyota-supplied electric motor.

Interestingly, the Toyota-badged version will forego the smaller four-banger and it will only be offered with the straight-six and the plug-in hybrid drivetrain. The Japanese car maker presumably wants to ensure the Supra will not overlap with the next generation of the Scion FR-S.

While BMW is very secretive about its next Z4, Toyota has hinted that it will preview the upcoming Supra with a close-to-production concept that will be introduced either next January at the Detroit Motor Show or the following March at the Geneva Motor Show.

BMW 35 series engines are being ugraded to 40 series in 2016 and according rumors power the new N58 engine will put out 330-360hp. I always said that current TT I6 coupes from BMW were inspired by the Supra, and its ironic how tables have turned.

The one thing that I find odd is that Z4 was always a convertible, and because of that was never a great handler. Are they switching it to coupe now, or will the new Supra become a coupe and Z4 remain a roadster? And if the Supra ends up being a coupe that rides on chassis designed for a convertible - that can have adverse effects on its weight and handling, much like the disappointing Lexus RC model.

With that said, I hope Toyota does something to make this Supra special - not just a BMW with futuristic body. And hopefully they don't abandon it without updates like they did with the FS/BRZ.
 

mmcartalk

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The one thing that I find odd is that Z4 was always a convertible, and because of that was never a great handler.

The 1Gen Z4 was available as a coupe or convertible, but those afterwards were convertible only.
 

CIF

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My biggest concern would be seeing a BMW engine in the Toyota. I continue to hope (and pray) there won't be a BMW engine in the Toyota. I won't forgive Toyota if that ends up coming true.
 

Mohammed Taha

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The switch to electric power steering is probably the main thing hurting BMW today. The older hydraulic units were some of the best available.

I think the issue with BMW today is their chassis. They're not as refined anymore. Or maybe a mismatch when everything is put together.
 

mmcartalk

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I think the issue with BMW today is their chassis. They're not as refined anymore. Or maybe a mismatch when everything is put together.

I tend to look at the steering gear as part of the chassis. The design of the suspension often affects the steering.....and vice-versa.
 

mmcartalk

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My biggest concern would be seeing a BMW engine in the Toyota. I continue to hope (and pray) there won't be a BMW engine in the Toyota. I won't forgive Toyota if that ends up coming true.

BMW can make some good power plants. One of my favorite was the 3.0L straight-six used in some past-generation 335i models. But you have a point.....they have also had to replace or make major repairs on power plants because of engineering or assembly goof-ups, such as the defective fans on the 1Gen X5 that overheated them and caused engine fires. Some former M3 power plants were also defective.

My biggest concern with using a BMW power plant on a Toyota would be the relatively high cost of any needed replacement parts for them not provided under warranty. Even high-end Toyota owners, with cars like the Supra, are generally not used to paying the kind of prices BMW parts cost.
 
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CIF

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BMW can make some good power plants. One of my favorite was the 3.0L straight-six used in some past-generation 335i models. But you have a point.....they have also had to replace or make major repairs on power plants because of engineering or assembly goof-ups, such as the defective fans on the 1Gen X5 that overheated them and caused engine fires. Some former M3 power plants were also defective.

My biggest concern with using a BMW power plant on a Toyota would be the relatively high cost of any needed replacement parts for them not provided under warranty. Even high-end Toyota owners, with cars like the Supra, are generally not used to paying the kind of prices BMW parts cost.

Yes, another good point too. That would be my secondary concern of BMW powerplant, after reliability.
 
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I cant wait for that car to make it to production. My last sports(ish) car was a 92 Nissan 240 SX and although the 2008 GS350 RWD was fun and all, it was nowhere near being a proper sports car. I have already started saving up for this beauty...