Toyota BZ4X

spwolf

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20% worse consumption than Nissan Arya, and 30% or more compared to Model Y LR.

Consumption, not range. Plus you actually get to use only 70% of the battery due to slow charge after 80% and huge buffer of 7%.

Just skip.
 

ssun30

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I wonder why they didn't pack the ESU under the rear seat so the engine bay isn't that full.

The ESU idea is good on paper but then it means they have to create a different ESU for each specification. For example if they want a 150kW and 240kW output power, or a 150kW and 300kW DC charging, or 6.6kW and 11kW AC charging, they need 8 different ESU models for all these combinations. This results in the very stupid way on RZ450e where they had to add an extra 11kW AC-DC converter making the 6.6kW one in the ESU useless. The ESU only makes sense when they make a crappy single spec model as they do now.

If we think about a full lineup of EVs with 150kW, 250kW and 350kW outputs, 150kW, 250kW and 350kW DC charging, 6.6kW, 11kW, 19.2kW AC charging. Now Toyota would have to make 27 ESUs for every combination (but more likely fewer because some combinations don't make sense). A competitor would only need 9 different components to achieve the same flexibility.
 

ssun30

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It's funny they couldn't find much redeeming qualities of this product so they instead praise how well made the two-tone charging door is for three episodes.

This thing looks exactly what you would expect on a BEV in 2018.

TLDR version:
>> ESU idea is okay but needs to be much smaller.
>> Big panel gaps but it's common for 1st MY Toyotas that will get much tighter going forward.
>> Crash mitigation for front powertrain unit is a band-aid solution.
>> Still lead-acid battery for 12V system, heavy and big.
>> Useless fusebox. Entire 12V system is carry-over from long time ago. Needs optimization.
>> They did a good job at making a standardized front section for developing more products.
>> Cooling system is poorly integrated.
>> Way too many layers of metal surrounding the battery pack leads to poor thermal efficiency especially in cold weather.
>> Way too many fastener that could be eliminated without sacrificing crash worthiness.
 
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ssun30

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The 150kW BZ4X FWD is faster than 180kW NX350h AWD and 205kW NX350 AWD while being 100kg heavier.
 

mediumhot

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This thing needs to be killed. Best charging speed of 43kw on trip, and poor range, i would light it on fire.

You are too harsh. This is a city vehicle and you just have to accept is like that. On top of everything at least it looks better than any CUV BEV competition not named e-tron. Sure looks are not the most importan criteria when it comes to BEV but most of them look like jelly bean (Model Y, C40, G60, VW and MB bubbles and so on) There are some premium Chinese like Nio and Xpeng which do look good btw
 

ssun30

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Why keep defending it when Koji Sato just admitted the bZ4X needs "aggressive improvements" each model year.

Whether they will achieve those improvements, people who bought 2022 and 2023 MY bZ4X are screwed by Toyota.

They need to offer guaranteed value buyback like they do in China for the RZ450e. Toyota knows owners will be so frustrated they will be trading in after less than 1-2 years.
 

internalaudit

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I am okay buying a used AWD bZ or RZ down the road if new second gen Toyota/Lexus BEVs are priced through the roof in 2026 and beyond. TBH, only Toyota/Lexus BEVs would be the ones I would consider buying used in their 7th year.

The more these "lackluster" BEVs sell in quantities, the more selection I have in the used car segment down the road if I can't force myself to buy a brand new BEV if pricing is still getting way out of hand.

I just wish Toyota/Lexus can sell new BEVs directly to the consumer and bypass some of these greedy dealerships down the road.
 

spwolf

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I am okay buying a used AWD bZ or RZ down the road if new second gen Toyota/Lexus BEVs are priced through the roof in 2026 and beyond. TBH, only Toyota/Lexus BEVs would be the ones I would consider buying used in their 7th year.

The more these "lackluster" BEVs sell in quantities, the more selection I have in the used car segment down the road if I can't force myself to buy a brand new BEV if pricing is still getting way out of hand.

I just wish Toyota/Lexus can sell new BEVs directly to the consumer and bypass some of these greedy dealerships down the road.

Toyota flagship stores in many European countries and directly owned by Toyota Tsusho.

Do I need to tell you that those stores have the highest pricing in the country? They do. They are very unwilling to drop the price compared to other local Toyota dealers.
 

spwolf

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and also, it is just a terrible EV. You should not want to buy that, it is thirsty, charges stupidly slow, software is bad, etc. It is just really non competitive vehicle so you should not do that no matter what.
 

internalaudit

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and also, it is just a terrible EV. You should not want to buy that, it is thirsty, charges stupidly slow, software is bad, etc. It is just really non competitive vehicle so you should not do that no matter what.
What's so bad about the software? I didn't see many complaints on a bz forum, compared to software (among other) issues with Tesla's on TeslaMotorClub.


I don't really care about slow charging and shorter driving range if the price is right when they're on they're 7th and final year of battery warranty. At least i know, the battery will be good for another four to six years, if not longer, compared to comparable Tesla though battery replacement even on the S has gone down from $25K to $19K it seems.

I also live in Canada so EU pricing practices don't really apply to me and I have time to wait this EV evolution out. Buy new BEV when compelling, settle for used Toyota/Lexus BEV if even 2nd gen are not compelling. I still think Honda will come up with a good enough BEV, with better build quality and reliability than a Tesla.

Main focus right now is battery maintenance and cell balancing and even Tesla hasn't gotten that right. I think Toyota will do much better on that front, it's already being very conservative with its BMS. Not everyone is ignorant to think of buying a BEV with no available battery replacement down the road. Also, not everyone likes Tesla build quality, part costs and single central display for almost everything.

So there will be those looking for Tesla alternatives down the road. I doubt Tesla is going to improve on its interior/interface even with an onslaught of BEVs in two to three years' time.
 
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spwolf

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What's so bad about the software? I didn't see many complaints on a bz forum, compared to software (among other) issues with Tesla's on TeslaMotorClub.

that is because only several thousand people got theirs. It is just terrible.
IE You can not see your battery percentage in the car, only on phone. You can not pre-warm the battery.
Miles left goes down heavily if you just turn on AC or Heater, by some large predetermined amount without any reality included.

Last 8% of battery shows as 0%. They also forbid fast charging for more than 2x per day. In real life, their charging speeds are super slow, slower than pretty much everything.

They do not integrate their multimedia with charging map. They also dont support Plug & Charge.

Just everything related to it being an EV sux.

As to my comment with Toyota owned dealers, basically the reason for them to bring it in house is to increase their profit, not lower the price. We have Toyota owned dealership in my city, they have highest pricing in country. Does not matter that it is in Europe, it is the way they do business.

This is why you see many reviews coming out saying it is a bad vehicle for EV.
 

ssun30

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Thanks to aggressive price cuts, FT bZ4X has surpassed ID.4X (1729 vs 1709) in monthly sales. GAC did not follow up with FAW's price cuts and suffered a lot.
 

internalaudit

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that is because only several thousand people got theirs. It is just terrible.
IE You can not see your battery percentage in the car, only on phone. You can not pre-warm the battery.
Miles left goes down heavily if you just turn on AC or Heater, by some large predetermined amount without any reality included.

Last 8% of battery shows as 0%. They also forbid fast charging for more than 2x per day. In real life, their charging speeds are super slow, slower than pretty much everything.

They do not integrate their multimedia with charging map. They also dont support Plug & Charge.

Just everything related to it being an EV sux.

As to my comment with Toyota owned dealers, basically the reason for them to bring it in house is to increase their profit, not lower the price. We have Toyota owned dealership in my city, they have highest pricing in country. Does not matter that it is in Europe, it is the way they do business.

This is why you see many reviews coming out saying it is a bad vehicle for EV.

Yeah no different from Tesla owners experience with the range left and Tesla has been at it for more than a decade.

It's not that difficult to know driving range on 80% charge x 50% during winter time. Doesn't hurt to learn how to read fuel gauge or battery life percentage to get to amount of km that can be driven based on traffic conditions.

Next car bought new will almost likely be a BEV for me but nothing compelling below or at around the TM3 performance price point.

My Accord doesn't have km per liter reading but EPA and a few fill ups provide a good enough picture.

Only people who are arithmetic challenged will use poor range estimates as a reason to shun from buying BEVs.

Maybe they didn't do the math switching from their current ICEV or HEV to a BEV either.

There's no break even point compared to the CT200h I bought from a friend for less than $5K.