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Will1991

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Don't forget what happened to the Avensis...

In 2009 they launched T27 Avensis:


For 2012 a facelift:


A deeper facelift, for 2015:


With some dimensions (length) changes:



Then, they killed it for the Camry (A far superior product in my opinion).
So, it's not anything new for them do do a "major facelift", and this is what I think is going to happen for the IS, until a BEV only version comes up.

And Google Translate (https://www.mag-x.com/shop/products/detail.php?product_id=244) comes up with this from the Mag-X realease:
  • EV sedan model life extended by 3 years Lexusui S
  • Lexus IS is extended to 23 years, and then Baton Touch on EV sedan
 
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thtupid

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So do people think that the IS will eventually become a BEV only vehicle and ES the hybrid/petrol and GS hydrogen (via the new mirai)? I really love the IS I really do...but ive said before (maybe here maybe not) I just don't see the point of a smaller, more expensive car to manufacture (compared to a fwd ES that shares a platform with the camry/Avalon/everything that sells well for Toyota) and sell it at a similar price point as the ES. In my perfect little world I would ditch the ES and have the IS and GS soldier along...And as a current IS owner, I just cant bear the fact that I may end up going FWD (with or without eAWD) for my next car when I will eventually have to retire the IS for probably an ES...or GR camry...but yeah...2 similarly priced sedans in a SUV crazed world doesn't seem to make sense. Unless something special is planned for the IS that is...
 

internalaudit

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First, the TM3 gets good reviews, when comparing it to other compact ICEV RWD sport sedans.

Now, the Taycan proves BEVs can be fun with little compromise, besides the lower driving distance between charges but beats paying for premium gasoline on a similar sub-20 US MPG vehicle.

The sports sedan, where the IS, belongs to, isn't dead. It has just become a little too boring because o5r the inherent limitations of ICEVs -- increasing complexity, more and more cooling required, emissions standards to be met.

Heck, I just perused the Civic Type R engine bay walkthrough a few weeks ago and marveled/aghast with all that is required to produce a 300 HP from the 2.0T.
 

CRSKTN

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First, the TM3 gets good reviews, when comparing it to other compact ICEV RWD sport sedans.

Now, the Taycan proves BEVs can be fun with little compromise, besides the lower driving distance between charges but beats paying for premium gasoline on a similar sub-20 US MPG vehicle.

The sports sedan, where the IS, belongs to, isn't dead. It has just become a little too boring because o5r the inherent limitations of ICEVs -- increasing complexity, more and more cooling required, emissions standards to be met.

Heck, I just perused the Civic Type R engine bay walkthrough a few weeks ago and marveled/aghast with all that is required to produce a 300 HP from the 2.0T.
 

LexsCTJill

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So do people think that the IS will eventually become a BEV only vehicle and ES the hybrid/petrol and GS hydrogen (via the new mirai)? I really love the IS I really do...but ive said before (maybe here maybe not) I just don't see the point of a smaller, more expensive car to manufacture (compared to a fwd ES that shares a platform with the camry/Avalon/everything that sells well for Toyota) and sell it at a similar price point as the ES. In my perfect little world I would ditch the ES and have the IS and GS soldier along...And as a current IS owner, I just cant bear the fact that I may end up going FWD (with or without eAWD) for my next car when I will eventually have to retire the IS for probably an ES...or GR camry...but yeah...2 similarly priced sedans in a SUV crazed world doesn't seem to make sense. Unless something special is planned for the IS that is...
I doubt the IS will turn into a EV.
 

internalaudit

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True. I read most of those articles and am aware that the Taycan easily beats the 200 mile EPA range but to me, the only compromises in the Taycan is how long the battery will last, the clutch-based torque vectoring that is offered, and the longer time to charge it compared to filling up with gasoline.

And I don't even care about the last one since I will be charging 99% at home, when it's the cheapest (at night).
 
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Sulu

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Don't forget what happened to the Avensis...

In 2009 they launched T27 Avensis:

For 2012 a facelift:

A deeper facelift, for 2015:

With some dimensions (length) changes:

Then, they killed it for the Camry (A far superior product in my opinion).

So, it's not anything new for them do do a "major facelift", and this is what I think is going to happen for the IS, until a BEV only version comes up.
Yes, that 2015 facelift on the Avensis (changes to the front fascia and interior dashboard) was a significant facelift but what we are reading suggests (to me) a new IS built on the old, existing New-N platform rather than a new TNGA platform.

In my opinion, this is what I believe will happen:
  1. If the new IS is just a facelift (to make changes to the front and rear fascias to match the latest design language seen on the LS, LC and ES, and the dashboard), it is just a delay before the real new IS is introduced in 2 or 3 years time. Of course, it could be merely delaying the cancellation of the IS by 3 years.
  2. If the new IS is more than just a facelift but a significant change on the existing New-N platform, it is a delay of 5 or 6 years time, and then the IS is cancelled and dies.

If this is the swan song, why invest so much on a unibody RWD (unlike BOF vehicles that have wide margins) refresh. Lexus historically has prolonged their models indefinitely rather then refresh them like the last gen LS, current gen GX and LX, and the now dead GS. In some aspects, its the youngest of the oldest models in the Lexus fleet (behind the GX, LX, GS).
Agreed. If the life of the IS is limited (3+ years), why spend much money and engineering resources on a totally new IS, on the new TNGA platform.

And Google Translate (https://www.mag-x.com/shop/products/detail.php?product_id=244) comes up with this from the Mag-X realease:

EV sedan model life extended by 3 years Lexusui S
I am not sure what this means. Are they saying that the IS will be facelifted again, to extend its life by 3 years before a replacement is introduced?

Lexus IS is extended to 23 years, and then Baton Touch on EV sedan
I am not sure what this means either. If they started counting from 1998 when the IS was first introduced, does that suggest that the IS as we know it ends in late 2021 to be introduced by an EV? What is Baton Touch?
 

ssun30

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I am not sure what this means either. If they started counting from 1998 when the IS was first introduced, does that suggest that the IS as we know it ends in late 2021 to be introduced by an EV? What is Baton Touch?
Just ignore his post. The Mag-X texts have already been translated above and I don't know why he bothered Google Translate it again.
 

mikeavelli

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Acura drops their TLX tomorrow and all indications show they woke up quite a bit. If Lexus drops their "new" IS behind the TLX with basically no major engine updates etc, it is going to look very very VERY bad. Every car in this class has an optional engine north of 360hp. We are talking everyone from Kia to Mercedes.

I am hoping Lexus has some tricks up its sleeves.
 

spwolf

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Don't forget what happened to the Avensis...

In 2009 they launched T27 Avensis:


For 2012 a facelift:


A deeper facelift, for 2015:


With some dimensions (length) changes:



Then, they killed it for the Camry (A far superior product in my opinion).
So, it's not anything new for them do do a "major facelift", and this is what I think is going to happen for the IS, until a BEV only version comes up.

And Google Translate (https://www.mag-x.com/shop/products/detail.php?product_id=244) comes up with this from the Mag-X realease:
  • EV sedan model life extended by 3 years Lexusui S
  • Lexus IS is extended to 23 years, and then Baton Touch on EV sedan
Avensis is a good example of relatively big facelift, but it still did not change the width of the car.
They killed it later because D segment category in Europe simply died off completely and Avensis was based on Europe only.

They also supported Yaris with heavy facelifts as well as Rav4.
 

bogglo

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Acura drops their TLX tomorrow and all indications show they woke up quite a bit. If Lexus drops their "new" IS behind the TLX with basically no major engine updates etc, it is going to look very very VERY bad. Every car in this class has an optional engine north of 360hp. We are talking everyone from Kia to Mercedes.

I am hoping Lexus has some tricks up its sleeves.
Just what I was thinking. Lexus really needs to drop a reasonable hint of what to expect for the next IS refresh or redesigned. They are now seriously lagging behind.
 

bogglo

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I also have a feeling once the new V8 is ready the LS will drop the ttv6 and the 3.5V6 hybrid for the rumored 3.0T hybrid. The IS RC and maybe ES will pick up the v6 from the current LS
 

Gecko

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This discussion needs to stay IS-related. If you want to compare to the TLX or something else, so be it.

New TLX today, new 4 Series next week, new C class coming soon... there is still momentum and interest in this class.
 

bogglo

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This discussion needs to stay IS-related. If you want to compare to the TLX or something else, so be it.

New TLX today, new 4 Series next week, new C class coming soon... there is still momentum and interest in this class.
WOW, i Did not know the next 4 series is around the corner. Lexus wake your ass up.lol. By the way, I don't think the new TLX type S will be threatening for anyone all they did was catch up to the competition. The IS will compete easily if they introduce the 3.5tt from the LS. and the current IS350 is pretty much as powerful as the base TLX. The only difference will be if the TLX is underrated and lighter.
 

Gecko

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WOW, i Did not know the next 4 series is around the corner. Lexus wake your ass up.lol. By the way, I don't think the new TLX type S will be threatening for anyone all they did was catch up to the competition. The IS will compete easily if they introduce the 3.5tt from the LS. and the current IS350 is pretty much as powerful as the base TLX. The only difference will be if the TLX is underrated and lighter.
We have to wait and see just how much the 2021 IS offers, but I think we are going to be pretty disappointed unfortunately. Hopefully it will be a short term disappointment for an all-new 4th gen IS ~2024/2025, but time will tell. Retrofitting the V35A-FTS or even the UR V8 into an old IS platform is pretty unlikely and I think we should be realistic about that.

Similarly, we still need more information on the TLX Type-S. At first glance, the interior is really nice, it's on the larger end of midsize and looks to be coming with a 400hp turbo V6. The top IS engine is only 311hp, and in other applications, it seems that Honda's 2.0T is a bit underrated. This makes the IS350 more of a competitor for the 2.0T than the 3.0T TLX. We also still need to know pricing on the Acura.

My opinion doesn't matter here much - we have a 4Runner for two big dogs and weekend chores, and our IS 350 is paid for - but if I was in the realm of new $50k sedans, I can't tell you I'd be picking a 300hp FWD ES or a 311hp, 7 year old IS over a TLX Type-S that is brand new, packing 400hp, SH-AWD with rear bias, midsize and sporting a beautiful interior.
 
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We have similar tastes and opinions. I drive our 2017 4Runner, the wife snagged a 2016 IS350 Fsport last year. I’ve owned a 2016 MDX and would consider the new TLX TypeS over a refreshed IS. Acura’s tend to offer more car for your money and likely a lot more performance (2021 type S) over the 3.5 v6 IS. Come on Lexus, some new power trains this decade would be nice;)
 

joepac

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We have to wait and see just how much the 2021 IS offers, but I think we are going to be pretty disappointed unfortunately. Hopefully it will be a short term disappointment for an all-new 4th gen IS ~2024/2025, but time will tell. Retrofitting the V35A-FTS or even the UR V8 into an old IS platform is pretty unlikely and I think we should be realistic about that.

Similarly, we still need more information on the TLX Type-S. At first glance, the interior is really nice, it's on the larger end of midsize and looks to be coming with a 400hp turbo V6. The top IS engine is only 311hp, and in other applications, it seems that Honda's 2.0T is a bit underrated. This makes the IS350 more of a competitor for the 2.0T than the 3.0T TLX. We also still need to know pricing on the Acura.

My opinion doesn't matter here much - we have a 4Runner for two big dogs and weekend chores, and our IS 350 is paid for - but if I was in the realm of new $50k sedans, I can't tell you I'd be picking a 300hp FWD ES or a 311hp, 7 year old IS over a TLX Type-S that is brand new, packing 400hp, SH-AWD with rear bias, midsize and sporting a beautiful interior.
From the car mags it says the Type S will have "around 350hp" not exactly earth shattering for a top line model. I would get one over an ES but the IS is a different animal in my opinion. I for one and seeing if the IS500 comes to fruition, if not I'm getting a CPO LC500 or the new Supra. Keeping the 2010 IS350 since it still runs like new for my daily.
 
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