The Future of the IS Thread

[MichaelL]

I believe that the utility vehicle (high-riding but car-based crossover utility vehicles, and heavier-duty, including body-on-frame sport utility vehicles) trend is exactly that -- a trend -- but like the minivan trend that came before, when the CUV/SUV fashion statement runs its course, there will still be more utility vehicles on the market to choose from (compared to before the fashion trend started); the choice and the number of models will just be less.

I believe that most crossover utility vehicles can be replaced by lower-riding station wagons (i.e. I see a CUV as a station wagon on stilts).

One reason behind the rise in utility vehicles, in my opinion, and the reason for its ultimate near-demise, is fuel efficiency. With fuel prices being low (especially here in North America), there has not been the incentive for buyers to switch to lighter-weight, lower-riding sedans. Yes, the fuel efficiency of car-based crossovers (at least on paper) is close to the fuel efficiency of cars, but the extra weight and the larger frontal area (due to high ride height) will mean that the crossover's fuel efficiency will never be equal to the equivalent-sized car.

More and more jurisdictions around the world are starting to complain that they will not be able to match their stated lower greenhouse gas emissions targets because too many people are driving utility vehicles, which use more fuel than cars; switching gasoline-powered utility vehicles with EV crossovers won't help much either because the electric utility vehicle will still use more fuel (electricity) than the comparable electric car.

I see this as meaning that governments world-wide will start to implement programs to encourage drivers to switch to (smaller) cars and discourage drivers from driving utility vehicles.

Very much agree. It is a trend, like many before it, and will run its course... some people are sheep, fewer are trend setters, the trend setters will move into something else. It will happen. Trend setters don't want to look like sheep. Just look back at any trend, it changes, doesn't last forever, kids don't want what their parents had, don't dress the same, listen to the same music, drive the same type of vehicle. This is one factor

Another factor is gas prices, when gas prices went sky high in 2008/2009 if I remember the time correctly with the recession, people were trying to get out of SUVs as fast as they could. You can't make them as efficient as a car, higher weight, usually 4 wheel drive, and poor aerodynamics leads to much worse gas mileage. Plus cars drive better, handle better, brake better... etc. SUVs give you nothing. Higher ride height so you can see better? Not when everyone else is driving a higher riding vehicle, you are still in the same boat. Can't see over them.

Easier to get in and out of? A little, but we aren't talking about Miatas, scraping the ground, talking regular cars, normal height, they aren't tough. If they are, maybe lose a little weight, go to the gym work on your flexibility, take control of your life... how fat and lazy are we getting in the US? Really?

Lexus and Toyota, the largest car manufacturer in the world and they can't invest in cars as well as trucks and SUVs? Come on. Lexus, don't follow the path of Infinity! Infinity should just close their doors now, why suffer a slow death? Pull the plug and be put out of your misery now. The Germans are doing well, look to them for a little guidance and inspiration. They are investing in their whole model line, don't see them throwing in the towel on cars.... don't follow Ford, or GM in killing or neglecting their cars. Come on Toyota, you are far better than that! You have the resources, lead don't follow the losers, look to companies doing well.

 

[internalaudit]

All I know is with CUV, there is usually a bigger cargo volume and some people need to haul things from time to time.

I think that is more important than having a high seat height because when one is not tailgating, one can see far beyond the car immediately in front

 

[Will1991]

Getting back to this IS refresh, does anyone knows if the engine lineup will carry over as they are, without any update?

My question comes for the IS300h, because I wasn't able to check this... As far as I know it should have been already homologated for Euro 6d-Temp otherwise they weren't able to register them in Europe from September 2019, but after January 2021 they will have to comply with Euro 6d. This will bring a lower conformity factor (around 40% if memory doesn't betray me) according to RDE vs WLTP.

Is this engine really capable of complying with this new regulation?

 

[spwolf]

Getting back to this IS refresh, does anyone knows if the engine lineup will carry over as they are, without any update?

My question comes for the IS300h, because I wasn't able to check this... As far as I know it should have been already homologated for Euro 6d-Temp otherwise they weren't able to register them in Europe from September 2019, but after January 2021 they will have to comply with Euro 6d. This will bring a lower conformity factor (around 40% if memory doesn't betray me) according to RDE vs WLTP.

Is this engine really capable of complying with this new regulation?

it should be fine but who knows.

 

[ssun30]

The IS300h will almost certainly receive the new hybrid system currently available for the Crown. There is no incentive to carry over the old hybrid system since the new one is essentially the transverse 2.5 hybrid system rotated by 90 degrees which means commonality with FWD hybrids and thus cheaper to produce.

 

[Sulu]

All I know is with CUV, there is usually a bigger cargo volume and some people need to haul things from time to time.

I think that is more important than having a high seat height because when one is not tailgating, one can see far beyond the car immediately in front

We should be able to get comparable cargo volume in a station wagon. Unfortunately because Americans do not like any car labelled as a "station wagon", nearly all automakers (with the exception of the automakers from Europe, where they still buy station wagons) have dropped them from their lineups, so we have no station wagons to compare with.

 

[internalaudit]

We should be able to get comparable cargo volume in a station wagon. Unfortunately because Americans do not like any car labelled as a "station wagon", nearly all automakers (with the exception of the automakers from Europe, where they still buy station wagons) have dropped them from their lineups, so we have no station wagons to compare with.

I don't like to drive station wagons (had to drive a Ford Mondeo in Europe last summer as I couldn't take any other make out to Eastern Europe and it was too long for me haha but needed the room) but they do drive better than the comparable SUV. C/D has tested two Benz vehicles and liked the station wagon a lot better for handling and fuel economy.

I guess hatchbacks would be my go to format instead of CUVs or SUVs but I don't travel or camp much so a sedan will be okay for the most part.

 

[Gecko]

Newest update: What I posted before may be wrong and IS is all-new on a TNGA platform. I don’t know which platform, but that’s what I was told more recently. I think 2GR is carryover though.

Y’all can light me on fire now.

 

[mikeavelli]

Newest update: What I posted before may be wrong and IS is all-new on a TNGA platform. I don’t know which platform, but that’s what I was told more recently. I think 2GR is carryover though.

Y’all can light me on fire now.

I would be in absolute shock if the 2GR carried over. I am hoping for a hybrid and a full F.

 

[Sulu]

Newest update: What I posted before may be wrong and IS is all-new on a TNGA platform. I don’t know which platform, but that’s what I was told more recently. I think 2GR is carryover though.

Y’all can light me on fire now.

Just curious (not wanting to be critical): What changed to make you say this? But you think that the 2GR will carry over? What about a V35A without the turbochargers (V35A-FKS, perhaps) or some new 3.0-litre Dynamic Force V6 to replace the 3.5-litre 2GR?

 

[ssun30]

A better question would be how is the GR V6 carried over? 2GR-FKS = bad, 8GR-FXS with multi-stage hybrid = great.

 

[Dreski]

Okay this question isn’t just IS but does have to deal with IS as well. With our entire lineup what can we expect in the next two years? What new products (new design or just refreshes) are coming? I know LCC but what else is there? Would love if anyone had somewhat of a guess on our near future!

My 2 to 3.25 year Outline:

-LC F, this is a sure bet.
-Phasing out GS, LX & GX.
-Rebirth of Venza by sis brand. So this means a new CUV/SAV/SUV on the Lexus side.
-A 3rd row stretched version of the RX
-GX rebranded as streched
-LX replacement or LX rebranded. Its going to be the flagship and It’s interior/exterior size will be like the X7 & GLS.
-___ From the COMPLETELY new Tundra. Full-size SUV just like the 2021 Yukon/Tahoe/Escalade. Perhaps even an XL version.
-3 full bevs, 2 normies and 1 high performance. Range and spec will be akin to the Porsche Taycan and not testa.

 

[bogglo]

Newest update: What I posted before may be wrong and IS is all-new on a TNGA platform. I don’t know which platform, but that’s what I was told more recently. I think 2GR is carryover though.

Y’all can light me on fire now.

whew!!! (relieved)

Thanks for the update we can't blame you Lexus has been slacking lately. my hope is we get concrete information about the power trains that will be on offer before I pull the trigger on the RC-F. Last thing I was told is the next IS will be done properly (fingers crossed)

 

[Will1991]

Now that we can all dream again with a all-new IS, my powertrain wish-list would be:

->2.5L A25A-FXS Hybrid as a IS300h
->2.5L A25A-FXS PHEV as a IS400h(?! I don't know what to expect since "e" it's for electric... Maybe capital H?)
->3.5L 8GR-FXS as a IS500h
->TT V8 as a ISF

2 of them are already sold on the Crown, on GA-L... An IS-BEV seems asking for too much...

 

[mikeavelli]

I’m now hearing some good things about it and that it is on a new platform as Gecko states.

 

[James]

I’m now hearing some good things about it and that it is on a new platform as Gecko states.

Good things like an ISF...?

 

[Levi]

I hope it looks good. Also hope there is an IS 500h. But IS 300h will probably the only engine in Europe.

 

[internalaudit]

Although I would like a BEV for my next car, I think I will be extremely satisfied with a sporty enough AWD IS hybrid car as long as it can do 0-100 in 6 seconds or less, get 50 US MPG, have a touch screen CP and AA infotainment system and hopefully have torque vectoring ( but highly unlikely since only non-hybrids have the Lexus TVD or Toyota torque vectoring).

 

[GNS]

On a side note, I watched the above acceleration video for the 2018 Toyota Crown 3.5L Hybrid (8GR-FXS) and I'm shocked at how fast it can move; it does 0 - 100km/h in 4.7s. I wouldn't mind at all if the next gen IS was on a similar TNGA platform with that engine + 10 speed auto + AWD.

Never mind the V35A-FTS twin turbo V6, put that 8GR-FXS in with 354hp and you can have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Levi]

Lexus does need the IS 500h in Europe, because the price and performance gap between the IS 300h/ES 300h and RC F/LC/LS is huge.