Suit Filed Against Mercedes-Benz for BlueTec Diesel Engines

[Och]

The smell of gas is not easy to get off one's, hands either......some gas stations have little hand-swipes with special solvents on them to help. One thing that helps with preventing fuel-spills is simply keeping the nozzle pointed upwards with you lift it off the pump, then turn it around while you are holding it, and gently lowering it into the fuel-filler pipe on your car......and doing the reverse when hanging the nozzle back up. Doing that, I almost never have any problems with spilled fuel in any way. But many people simply stick the nozzle in and out of the car, pull it out, and hang it back up with the tip pointed down......so gravity will pull any drops still left inside, staining either the car's fender or the gas pump itself.

The problem is, with diesel pumps more often than not the handle is already stained with overspilled diesel, and the only way to prevent it from getting onto your hands is to wear gloves.

 

[IS-SV]

The point is diesel fuel is much more sticky, smells much more, leave much more dirty residue than gasoline. The handwipes that work well after gasoline fills do nothing for removing diesel residue.

I also keep wipes in my car because even after filling neatly and carefully with gasoline or CNG, I still want to clean my hands.

It's not Och that is doing the spilling, it's others that leave the dirty filth behind after sloppy fills. Unfortunately he gets the filth on his hands afterwards through no fault of his own.

I know Mazda CX-5 diesel owners in UK with similar complaints.

 

[mmcartalk]

The point is diesel fuel is much more sticky, smells much more, leave much more dirty residue than gasoline. The handwipes that work well after gasoline fills do nothing for removing diesel residue.

I also keep wipes in my car because even after filling neatly and carefully with gasoline or CNG, I still want to clean my hands.

Since you mentioned gas and CNG, I can assume, then, that you don't own or lease a diesel vehicle? I know that some of them are not even sold in CA because of that state's unique CARB regulations. CA also sells some natural-gas vehicles not available in other states, like the Civic GX.

 

[IS-SV]

d

Since you mentioned gas and CNG, I can assume, then, that you don't own or lease a diesel vehicle? I know that some of them are not even sold in CA because of that state's unique CARB regulations. CA also sells some natural-gas vehicles not available in other states, like the Civic GX.

Correct, I do not own a diesel and it's near the bottom of my list for preferred powerplants in 2016 for my purposes. The term "clean diesel" is misleading, even when ignoring VW's gross polluters.

I do have the Honda Civic GX (CNG) which was sold in several states, not only CA (initially launched in CA for fleet customers only). The Honda Civic GX being the last production CNG car available in US was discontinued around 2014/2015. CNG fueling stations are plentiful enough in northern CA's Bay Area and in southern CA's greater LA area. But the reality is the growth in CNG revolves around commercial light-mid sized truck fleets, that's where the economics make sense. Examples are UPS and AT&T fleets in certain big depots running mostly CNG powered trucks.

Note: In CA, these CARB approved clean air vehicles (CNG) including the GX are approved for "white HOV stickers" allowing driving solo in carpool lanes, same as electrics such as Tesla and Leaf. These "white HOV stickers" are an important incentive. You can see white stickers on rear bumper in pic.

 

[mmcartalk]

View attachment 1302 d


I do have the Honda Civic GX (CNG) which was sold in several states, not only CA (initially launched in CA for fleet customers only). The Honda Civic GX being the last production CNG car available in US was discontinued around 2014/2015. CNG fueling stations are plentiful enough in northern CA's Bay Area and in southern CA's greater LA area. But the reality is the growth in CNG revolves around commercial light-mid sized truck fleets, that's where the economics make sense. Examples are UPS and AT&T fleets in certain big depots running mostly CNG powered trucks.

Interesting.....the only Civic GX I can ever remember seeing in the D.C. area, several years ago, was being used by the GM of a local Honda dealership when I went shopping with an ex-co-worker of mine for a CR-V. I saw it parked out front, and, when I asked about it, they said it was not for sale, and was the General Manager's personal car. When he came out to shake our hands after the deal, I asked him where he fueled up, and he said he had to drive to the local gas utility-company and hook it into their lines.

 

[IS-SV]

Off the top of my head, the highest sales volume states for CNG Honda GX's were CA, UT, OK, AZ, OR in that approximate order. But Honda only moved 2K units a year or so in later years, so not a big deal.

On the topic of this particular class action BlueTec diesel lawsuit against Mercedes, I wonder if there are any new developments since it sounds more like the common nuisance lawsuits that public companies are exposed to all too frequently.

 

[mmcartalk]

On the topic of this particular class action BlueTec diesel lawsuit against Mercedes, I wonder if there are any new developments since it sounds more like the common nuisance lawsuits that public companies are exposed to all too frequently.

With your strong feelings and previous comments about the VW scandal, though (criminal, inexcusable, worst scam in automotive history, etc....), if it turns out that M-B or BMW engaged in similar action on the BlueTecs, I'd have to assume that you would consider it more than just a nuisance suit.

 

[IS-SV]

With your strong feelings and previous comments about the VW scandal, though (criminal, inexcusable, worst scam in automotive history, etc....), if it turns out that M-B or BMW engaged in similar action on the BlueTecs, I'd have to assume that you would consider it more than just a nuisance suit.

. You might want to go back and edit your post before your inaccurate quotes (noted in red above) about my postings are exposed. Because the only thing I said as it relates to above were "of a criminal nature". And plenty of the articles posted in that thread report on the actual criminal investigations, searches, police raids, potential fines, etc. that we discussed.

. What's this crap about "strong feelings and previous comments"? Does that seem appropriate or respectful? If you don't have factual and ontopic replies to my posts, then please don't bother at all. I think I've said that before, please make a note of it.

. Please read carefully before responding to my posts and give consideration to comprehension and accuracy before hitting the enter button with replies. Example: We don't need to see multiple inaccurate posts in the CR Reliability results thread that come from not bothering to read the article actually posted.

. Please also read post #3 here which gives my on point response to this particular class-action lawsuit. If you have questions that are actually on topic as to OP's posting or my response, please ask.

. And if you finally get around to something topic-related here, answer for us what makes you think that "if it turns out that M-B or BMW engaged in similar action on the BlueTecs". Or in other words what makes you think that BMW and Mercedes were engaging in the same illegal cheating techniques as VW?

Note: If you are unfamiliar with the various class-action and frivolous/nuisance lawsuits that large public companies face on very regular and frequent basis, you can study about that later. Some of us actually have business law backgrounds here and are quite familiar, but its understandable how those not from large corporations might be less familiar.

 

[mmcartalk]

. You might want to go back and edit your post before your inaccurate quotes (noted in red above) about my postings are exposed.

OK, Steve, to make it clear, here is the specific post you made I was refering to...............

Even with PC aside, I don't view BMW's questionable/unethical actions to win sales race as the same as VW's actions which are of a criminal nature. And in an automotive context I don't lump the entire German auto industry in with VW. But yes VW obviously took it's form of cheating to another (illegal) level, their claim to fame is now the biggest fraud in automotive history.

If I misquoted your post (and I've been known to do that sometimes), my apology, and pardon me, but, in it, you appeared to have some pretty strong feelings against VW. I was just taking it at what I though was face value. So, if that was not the case, then, fine, let's go back to square one.

 

[IS-SV]

OK, Steve, to make it clear, here is the specific post you made I was refering to...............



If I misquoted your post (and I've been known to do that sometimes), my apology, and pardon me, but, in it, you appeared to have some pretty strong feelings against VW. I was just taking it at what I though was face value. So, if that was not the case, then, fine, let's go back to square one.

Let's get it straight, because it's not IF, everything was misquoted except for one word (criminal, and even that was out of context). Thanks.

Take note that the VW emission scandal thread is mostly articles posted on progress or lack of progress/investigations, status, etc. and not much about "feelings for/against VW".

Btw - this is Mercedes Bluetec thread

 

[IS-SV]

update below dated 02/29/16 (on the thread topic):

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/02/29/epa-more-information-mercedes-diesel-emissions/

Following a class-action civil lawsuit filed in New Jersey against Mercedes-Benz, the EPA said today that it has asked Daimler for more information about its diesel emissions. The lawsuit alleges that nitrogen oxide reduction systems in some Mercedes luxury vehicles shut off when the ambient temperature drops below 50 degrees Fahrenheit. This means that NOx emissions can be up to 65 times higher than federal limits allow.

The request for information does not mean that the EPA is launching a probe into Mercedes-Benz's diesel vehicles. The vehicles affected by the class-action suit are diesels with BlueTec, including: ML320, ML350, GL320, S 350, E320, R320, E-Class, GL Class, ML-Class, R Class, S-Class, GLK-Class, GLE-Class and Sprinter. Daimler has denied that any of its vehicles use any sort of device to circumvent emissions laws and said the class-action suit is without merit. We have asked the EPA for more information on what its request entails and will update you when we hear back.

As more readers will likely know, Volkswagen is in trouble for software 'defeat devices' that were found in millions of its diesel vehicles around the world. Since this became public last September, agencies from many governments and outside groups have been taking a closer eye on emissions levels and self-reported numbers. Two environmental NGOs in France, for example, have released a report that shows that there discrepancies between the reported NOx emissions numbers and independent tests were found in 100 vehicles. There were two Mercedes-Benz vehicles included in that list.

 

[supra93]

Mercedes Reportedly Sold Over A Million Vehicles With Excess Emissions

Daimler's legal problems could be growing as Sueddeutsche Zeitung is reporting the automaker has been accused of selling over a million diesel-powered vehicles which produce excess emissions.
Dieselgate scandal.

The repercussions could be staggering as Volkswagen has been forced to pay out hundreds of millions of dollars and the search warrant reportedly indicates the models could be banned in Europe.

When reached for comment, a Daimler spokesperson told Reuters the report was simply "speculation." However, they confirmed the automaker is cooperating with the investigation.

Mercedes' diesel engines have been under increased scrutiny and the company eventually withdrew its application to have 2017 models with diesel engines approved for sale in the United States. The company is also facing investigations by the Department of Justice, the Environmental Protection Agency, and the California Air Resources Board.

http://www.carscoops.com/2017/07/mercedes-reportedly-sold-over-million.html

 

[CIF]

Dieselgate
Mercedesgate
Collusiongate

The key question is, how many "gates" in total will the German Big 3 accumulate?

 

[IS-SV]

Dieselgate
Mercedesgate
Collusiongate

The key question is, how many "gates" in total will the German Big 3 accumulate?

The short reply is "clean passenger car diesels" in Europe is the same one big "gate", or government rubber-stamped gross polluter manufacturers allowed to profit via cozy relationships.

 

[mmcartalk]

The short reply is "clean passenger car diesels" in Europe is the same one big "gate", or government rubber-stamped gross polluter manufacturers allowed to profit via cozy relationships.

So far, though, from what I can tell, among German manufacturers, Opel and their diesels have not been involved. But, we'll see.

 

[IS-SV]

So far, though, from what I can tell, among German manufacturers, Opel and their diesels have not been involved. But, we'll see.

So far though, (not that it matters) since Opel and others are part of same "gate" and have been along for the same ride benefiting from cozy relationships of the bigger European players/governments.

 

[mmcartalk]

So far though, (not that it matters) since Opel and others are part of same "gate" and have been along for the same ride benefiting from cozy relationships of the bigger European players/governments.

Slightly off-topic maybe, but I would assume you're aware that GM is selling off Opel. That probably means no more Buick/Opel rebadges after the upcoming next-generation Regal this fall.

I think, though, that what's going to start killing off diesels in Europe, more so than the manufacturer-scandals, is that gas/electric hybrids, mostly for environmental reasons, are becoming more common and accepted there. European governments aren't giving quite as many tax and subsidy perks to diesel fuel as they once did.....although certainly, compared to the U.S., there's probably no such thing as cheap fuel in Europe.

 

[IS-SV]

Slightly off-topic maybe, but I would assume you're aware that GM is selling off Opel. That probably means no more Buick/Opel rebadges after the upcoming next-generation Regal this fall.

.

Yes, "slightly", lol. (And yes most here are aware)

And now back to Mercedes and related "gates".

 

[mmcartalk]

I don't think this article was posted before......(at least I didn't see it)......but that original lawsuit was tossed out of court some time ago.

http://www.autonews.com/article/201...-out-emissions-fraud-lawsuit-against-mercedes

UPDATED: 12/6/16 6:26 pm ET - adds details

A U.S. judge in New Jersey on Tuesday threw out a proposed class action lawsuit alleging that Mercedes misled consumers about emissions standards in "BlueTec Clean Diesel" vehicles.

U.S. District Judge Jose Linares said the plaintiffs did not have standing to bring the case.

Plaintiffs claimed Mercedes falsely advertised the BlueTec vehicles as having lower emissions. They said that they later found that the emissions were higher than U.S. standards permitted.

The judge said the plaintiffs failed to show they actually viewed any of Mercedes' advertisements touting the cleaner technology. He gave them leave to revise their complaint.

Automakers that market diesel engines in the U.S. have been under increased scrutiny since Volkswagen AG admitted in September 2015 that it had rigged U.S. diesel emissions tests. Volkswagen ultimately agreed to pay $15.3 billion in settlements for owners as well as state and federal regulators.

In April, the U.S. Department of Justice asked Daimler to investigate the emissions certification process for its Mercedes vehicles. The automaker said it would cooperate with U.S. authorities, but has not admitted to any wrongdoing.

The BlueTec system uses urea to eliminate nitric oxide fumes from vehicle emissions. It is used mainly in heavier cars like sports utility vehicles or Daimler's large limousines.