Sports BEVs

[Levi]

CUVs are the normal type/shape of car now and in the foreseeable future, so naturally the transition to BEVs continues in the same form. Sedans, with exceptions in their respective class are gone, and so are coupés/convertibles.

This dullness however seems to bring new light, something that probably would not have been possible before, a revival, reinvention of the old in new form for new times, and this could just be the beginning: Sports BEVs!

I want to make clear that the term used is “sport” and not “performance”. I am too lazy to make the distinction, but a new breed is about to rise in the near future, and the list is not so short.
The cars are (in no order):

• Alpine “A110”
• Lotus
• Porsche “Cayman”
• Honda “S2000”
• Toyota “MR2” (least likely)
• Caterham Project V

The latest is the only we know of now. The Porsche, Alpine and Lotus are in the works.

The Caterham is already a very nice proposal, I hope it works out. Here a nice vid interview with the CEO.



If these types of BEVs catch on to some extent, more might come from Alfa Romeo and Audi.

 

[Gor134]

As a relatively young enthusiast who grew up drooling over the amazing ICE sports cars, I genuinely have zero desire for any of these upcoming EV sports cars. For urban city use I absolutely understand the desire of an EV, but miss me with that EV **** for canyon runs and track days and multi-state roadtrips...

Hope I can acquire an S2000, FD RX7, E92 M3, V8 RS 5, an LC 500, and many more in the future before their prices get too crazy with all these incoming EVs.

Hyundai does have me very intrigued with the shifting modes of the Ioniq5 N, and I wouldn't be opposed to giving it a try, but for the sake of the "golden era" of performance sports cars we grew up with, these all seem like downgrades in experience

 

[Och]

They will just tarnish the legacy of these cars if they create ev versions.

 

[spwolf]

As a relatively young enthusiast who grew up drooling over the amazing ICE sports cars, I genuinely have zero desire for any of these upcoming EV sports cars. For urban city use I absolutely understand the desire of an EV, but miss me with that EV **** for canyon runs and track days and multi-state roadtrips...

Hope I can acquire an S2000, FD RX7, E92 M3, V8 RS 5, an LC 500, and many more in the future before their prices get too crazy with all these incoming EVs.

Hyundai does have me very intrigued with the shifting modes of the Ioniq5 N, and I wouldn't be opposed to giving it a try, but for the sake of the "golden era" of performance sports cars we grew up with, these all seem like downgrades in experience

If you track your car, petrol engine makes sense.
If you live in Europe and weekly go on 300+ mile trips, diesel makes sense.

If you are enthusiast, and love the sound of the petrol engine, having something like M5 Competition makes sense. Or LC500.

But otherwise, BEVs also make a lot of sense.

One of my best buddies owns 2021 M5 Competition with stage 2 kit and plenty of other enhancements. I understand fully why he likes that car. It is awesome vehicle.

My other best buddy owns 2020 E53, and it is just stupid. It makes noise and does not go. Its transmission is so bad it is funny. Both my M3P and MSLR are more of enthusiast vehicles than that crapmobile.

In any case, most people have a dd/cruiser and then separate sports car for track. Even in M5 Competition, driving 100 mph on highway is tiresome after all the upgrades to make it work on track.

 

[ssun30]

BEV sports cars don't make sense even from an ecological perspective.

BEV's emissions are front loaded, meaning most of the carbon emissions happen during manufacturing. They need to be driven certain distances to have a lower overall emissions than ICEVs.

However, sports cars by nature are not driven often. Very few people daily their sports cars. I can understand things like hot hatch and performance SUVs going full electric. But coupe and super cars, no.

I understand the main reason manufacturer do this is the stupid acceleration on the spec sheet. But at the end of the day BEV sports cars are neither fun nor ecological.

Heck, most ICE super cars have lower life cycle emissions than a Prius. A Bugatti Chiron will emit less than 100kg of CO2 in its entire life. That's why I favor taxing emissions not based on fuel economy or CO2 per km, but by distance i.e. through petrol tax.

 

[Levi]

So I am the only one liking these cars, and these are the first BEVs on my shopping list (next IS). The Caterham will be very expensive though, might be more expensive than a BEV Cayman. ICE Alpine A110 and Porsche 718 are the best daily drivable sports cars, they are even more livable than many conventional dailies.

That's why I favor taxing emissions not based on fuel economy or CO2 per km, but by distance i.e. through petrol tax.

It will always be unfair for someone. Those that need to drive more to work will have to pay more, and they drive more because living close to their work place which is usually large urban areas is more expensive and they can’t afford.

 

[spwolf]

I have yet to meet someone in my Tesla group that has purchased it for ecology reasons.

People do it for cost per mile (in Europe it is 3x cheaper even now), for technology, for cool factor... after getting used to BEVs, to me regular cars provide much worse experience.

But I have never heard anyone say in real life that they got it to save the planet. I am sure moving polution away from cities is a good thing, but it will happen few years later.

 

[Levi]

Callum NYOBOLT

It will not go into production, but it is a nice design proposal of an electric the Elise.

 

[Gor134]

Looks good

 

[Motor]

This dullness however seems to bring new light, something that probably would not have been possible before, a revival, reinvention of the old in new form for new times, and this could just be the beginning: Sports BEVs!

Here’s your reinvention:



It looks good.

 

[Gecko]

As a relatively young enthusiast who grew up drooling over the amazing ICE sports cars, I genuinely have zero desire for any of these upcoming EV sports cars. For urban city use I absolutely understand the desire of an EV, but miss me with that EV **** for canyon runs and track days and multi-state roadtrips...

Hope I can acquire an S2000, FD RX7, E92 M3, V8 RS 5, an LC 500, and many more in the future before their prices get too crazy with all these incoming EVs.

Hyundai does have me very intrigued with the shifting modes of the Ioniq5 N, and I wouldn't be opposed to giving it a try, but for the sake of the "golden era" of performance sports cars we grew up with, these all seem like downgrades in experience

This runs through my head frequently because I agree with you. Some people seem so excited to embrace EVs and the manufacturer's marketing certainly wants us to feel the same, but I'm 36 so I grew up and started driving in the years of:

Celica GT-S vs. RSX Type S
S2000 vs. Boxster
350Z vs. Mustang vs. Camaro
IS 300 vs. 330i
GS 400 vs. 540i vs. E430
IS F vs. M3 vs. C63
M5 vs. E55 vs. RS6

... The appeal in almost all of those cars was the driving experience and ICE performance right down to the bleeding edge.

When I had my GS 300, it had the SRT intake and Borla exhaust (+ sway bars, strut mounts, springs and some other stuff). My 5th gen 4Runners had TRD CAIs and Borla exhaust. My (current) Tacoma has TRD CAI and TRD exhaust. We just installed the TRD exhaust on the Camry too (omg it sounds good ).

I'm sure the tuning market will respond in ways to create excitement with EVs, but all of the things that drew me into the automotive world are absent in electric vehicles. Going fast for the sake of going fast, in silence, with no aural experience, does not excite me. At all. Not to mention weight as well.

Maybe I'm old. Or maybe I'll never grow up. Not sure...

One thing I've learned with Toyota and Lexus is that when they build performance products you love, you have to try to buy them while you can because the future is uncertain, and the company seems to have a particularly hard time committing to performance/enthusiast vehicles long term.

2GS --> 3GS
3GS --> no non-F V8 4GS
IS F --> Gone 💔
GS/GS F --> Gone 💔
LS 430 --> Best generation LS ever, XF40 and XF50 have never come close 😐
2IS --> 3IS got much softer with less performance focus 😔
1SC --> 2SC was a radical departure and no longer a coupe 😐
IS 500 --> Last of an era
LC 500 --> Last of an era
T230 Celica GTS --> Never built another high revving I4 like the 2ZZ-GE/6MT combo 😥
A80 Supra --> A90 is great, but different 🥲
T180 Celica All-Trac --> No more AWD performance Celicas 😢
W30 MR2 Spyder --> Toyota's "discount Porsche" and one of the best handling cars ever that never returned 😥

Hell, when I was looking at buying my 23 GX, the sole reason I bought it over an LX 600 or Sequoia was the V8 and knowing it'll be gone forever after this. I know it's not a performance car, but the V8 is core to it's character.

Yes, we are living in a time with the great A90 Supra, GR 86, IS 500, LC 500, and those are exceptional products in their own rights. However, I think we all see that those days are coming to an end. Buy them while you can! What's here today isn't guaranteed tomorrow.

 

[Levi]

Here’s your reinvention:]

It looks good.

It will never have the sitting position of a low sports car.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

This runs through my head frequently because I agree with you. Some people seem so excited to embrace EVs and the manufacturer's marketing certainly wants us to feel the same, but I'm 36 so I grew up and started driving in the years of:

Celica GT-S vs. RSX Type S
S2000 vs. Boxster
350Z vs. Mustang vs. Camaro
IS 300 vs. 330i
GS 400 vs. 540i vs. E430
IS F vs. M3 vs. C63
M5 vs. E55 vs. RS6

... The appeal in almost all of those cars was the driving experience and ICE performance right down to the bleeding edge.

When I had my GS 300, it had the SRT intake and Borla exhaust (+ sway bars, strut mounts, springs and some other stuff). My 5th gen 4Runners had TRD CAIs and Borla exhaust. My (current) Tacoma has TRD CAI and TRD exhaust. We just installed the TRD exhaust on the Camry too (omg it sounds good ).

I'm sure the tuning market will respond in ways to create excitement with EVs, but all of the things that drew me into the automotive world are absent in electric vehicles. Going fast for the sake of going fast, in silence, with no aural experience, does not excite me. At all. Not to mention weight as well.

Maybe I'm old. Or maybe I'll never grow up. Not sure...

One thing I've learned with Toyota and Lexus is that when they build performance products you love, you have to try to buy them while you can because the future is uncertain, and the company seems to have a particularly hard time committing to performance/enthusiast vehicles long term.

2GS --> 3GS
3GS --> no non-F V8 4GS
IS F --> Gone 💔
GS/GS F --> Gone 💔
LS 430 --> Best generation LS ever, XF40 and XF50 have never come close 😐
2IS --> 3IS got much softer with less performance focus 😔
1SC --> 2SC was a radical departure and no longer a coupe 😐
IS 500 --> Last of an era
LC 500 --> Last of an era
T230 Celica GTS --> Never built another high revving I4 like the 2ZZ-GE/6MT combo 😥
A80 Supra --> A90 is great, but different 🥲
T180 Celica All-Trac --> No more AWD performance Celicas 😢
W30 MR2 Spyder --> Toyota's "discount Porsche" and one of the best handling cars ever that never returned 😥

Hell, when I was looking at buying my 23 GX, the sole reason I bought it over an LX 600 or Sequoia was the V8 and knowing it'll be gone forever after this. I know it's not a performance car, but the V8 is core to it's character.

Yes, we are living in a time with the great A90 Supra, GR 86, IS 500, LC 500, and those are exceptional products in their own rights. However, I think we all see that those days are coming to an end. Buy them while you can! What's here today isn't guaranteed tomorrow.

There's a lot I agree with and a few things I disagree with, and no, I'm honestly too tired to go into detail. However, I did want to say that I'm like the both of you in that I want to see continuity in Toyota/Lexus' enthusiast models.

But why are we so worried? Right now that's what we're seeing from Toyota. They're developing the A100, and are practically developing the third generation GR86 by racing the current GR86 with a de-stroked G16E-GTS. Can it get any better than that? We're seeing a revival of a few more models and we know for a fact that TNGA-L is being heavily revised to be lighter, and more space efficient. There's also going to be the TNGA-A platform. So what's the fuss? Have faith.

The only thing that we should really be complaining at this moment are the lack of V8s, inline-sixes, and RWD unibody crossovers. All of the other concerns we've previously had are being addressed promptly, and hence, I don't think are a problem.

 

[Levi]

The only thing that we should really be complaining at this moment are the lack of RWD unibody crossovers.

Because RWD sedans are a dime a dozen?

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Because RWD sedans are a dime a dozen?

They still have 2. Which is fine by me lol.

We also have 2 RWD coupes.

 

[Heicho]

They still have 2. Which is fine by me lol.

We also have 2 RWD coupes.

5 if you count the Century sedan, Crown sedan, and the FUTURE...

 

[mikeavelli]

Lexus makes a pretty impressive LC 500h with what feels like no support. No one knows it exists. 0-60 in high 4s, 30 mpg.

 

[spwolf]

It will never have the sitting position of a low sports car.

it does not look like it... but it could. One of my favorite parts of Model 3P is actually how low you sit in it, feels like a Mini seating position. ID GTI concept has those black trims under doors so it feels like it will sit quite high up. GRMN Yaris also has pretty high seating position if I remember well.

 

[Motor]

👏

 

[mikeavelli]

Interesting to think the Honda CR-Z was maybe 15 years too early. It wasn’t great but did offer a manual.