Reviews: The Fifth Generation (XF50) Lexus LS

[Joaquin Ruhi]

However good the ES is, it's not going to have an interior as good as the LS500, and if you think otherwise you haven't been in an LS500.

If anything, I would truly want ES to have AWD, V6 bi-turbo, higher end interior options like quilted leather, japanese glass, etc, and all for $65k.
And I am sure you would love it too... but then you would complain that it would kill LS .

This is the heart of the matter why ES shouldn't totally obliterate LS sales. ES may be more bang-for-the-buck insofar as size and room for the money, but, judging by the 7ES interior shots we've seen, it's several noticeable notches below LS. and that is as it should be. Those that want utmost luxury will step up to LS and its available ultralux available touches such as hand-pleated door panels, cut glass decor and the like.

 

[zeusus]

This is the heart of the matter why ES shouldn't totally obliterate LS sales. ES may be more bang-for-the-buck insofar as size and room for the money, but, judging by the 7ES interior shots we've seen, it's several noticeable notches below LS. and that is as it should be. Those that want utmost luxury will step up to LS and its available ultralux available touches such as hand-pleated door panels, cut glass decor and the like.

I'm seriously questioning the intellectual integrity of anybody thinking the ES will eat LS sales. Its a totally different market for different people. Out of every 10 LS buyers, how many would seriously consider the ES? 1?

 

[ssun30]

LF-1 is going to be performance suv... very much unlike RX and more like LC...and I bet it wont be huge sales success because it wont be roomy enough or affordable enough for your average Lexus buyers

Is this supposed to be a sarcastic comment or a serious one?

 

[Gecko]

I'm seriously questioning the intellectual integrity of anybody thinking the ES will eat LS sales. Its a totally different market for different people. Out of every 10 LS buyers, how many would seriously consider the ES? 1?

By your logic, that's 10%, which would be 100 cars a month at this rate. I don't even think it will be that high, honestly.

ES has no appeal to the shopper looking for a flagship car, a tech showcase, a performance vehicle, top-notch interior quality or second-to-none craftsmanship, but it WILL appeal to the folks looking for a big, full size, comfortable Lexus car. Those consumers used to just buy an LS (because it was the biggest and most comfortable) but now because of some of the shifts taking place in Lexus' sedan lineup, the ES could look like an enticing value option they didn't have before. I expect that most of these folks will probably be 65+ years old and exactly the demographic that Lexus shifted away from with the new LS, so perhaps their ES/LS strategy is perfectly planned.

 

[spwolf]

Is this supposed to be a sarcastic comment or a serious one?

It certainly was not sarcastic... where do you expect sales to be? RX does 9k per month, GX does 2.5k per month.

I think around 2k would be right, and 3k per month would be amazing.

You can expect many RX/ES buyers to note how it is smaller inside despite larger exterior and despite $15k higher price.

Check out mid engine setup... it is not going to have acres of space in the back row.

 

[ssun30]

It certainly was not sarcastic... where do you expect sales to be? RX does 9k per month, GX does 2.5k per month.

I think around 2k would be right, and 3k per month would be amazing.

I was referring to the 'not a huge sales success' part. You think it won't be a sales success, yet predict 2k per month (which I assume is for US) which is very optimistic. There is a contradiction in your statement. The LF-1 will compete in a very crowded segment, so don't expect GLS kind of numbers (2.5k per month average).
I think they are planning 30k across the globe with ~20k in US, assuming global economy stays healthy for the next five years. That is a success considering the LX struggles to stay in the high three figures per month. 30k per year will be 10% of their revenue.

 

[spwolf]

I was referring to the 'not a huge sales success' part. You think it won't be a sales success, yet predict 2k per month (which I assume is for US) which is very optimistic. There is a contradiction in your statement. The LF-1 will compete in a very crowded segment, so don't expect GLS kind of numbers (2.5k per month average).
I think they are planning 30k across the globe with ~20k in US, assuming global economy stays healthy for the next five years. That is a success considering the LX struggles to stay in the high three figures per month. 30k per year will be 10% of their revenue.

LX sold 37,000 last year worldwide. RX sold 170,000

At $20k less, LF-1 has to double the LX sales at minimum to be huge success.

 

[krew]

So far it looks good that reviewers get along with the LS500. Sucks that I can't drive one because it's not available here.

When are we getting your review of the LS 350?

 

[Levi]

Check out mid engine setup... it is not going to have acres of space in the back row.

Does not look like it lacks space in the back row.

No less than ES, if not more.

 

[ssun30]

When are we getting your review of the LS 350?

I'm not a car reviewer lol.

The only thing I can say is that the rear seats are great. They offer the Executive Package on the 350 which seems like a steal. It's the same quiet, soft ride like previous generations. Maybe that's what's different from the 500. It shows that the 5LS can be the comfortable luxobarge as long as Lexus wants it to be. The complaint? It could definitely use more space. I just feel bad to have to squeeze my assistant (don't have one) in the front right seat when I need a little massage. Maybe the real rich people aren't bothered by this, perhaps they enjoy the feeling of flicking a switch to get more comfort by making their subordinate miserable .

The 3.5 V6 is honestly smooth enough and I don't understand how it is inferior to a V8 in terms of smoothness. Maybe I was an "ES350 pleb" so I couldn't really comment from an LS460 owner's prospective.

 

[zeusus]

By your logic, that's 10%, which would be 100 cars a month at this rate. I don't even think it will be that high, honestly.

ES has no appeal to the shopper looking for a flagship car, a tech showcase, a performance vehicle, top-notch interior quality or second-to-none craftsmanship, but it WILL appeal to the folks looking for a big, full size, comfortable Lexus car. Those consumers used to just buy an LS (because it was the biggest and most comfortable) but now because of some of the shifts taking place in Lexus' sedan lineup, the ES could look like an enticing value option they didn't have before. I expect that most of these folks will probably be 65+ years old and exactly the demographic that Lexus shifted away from with the new LS, so perhaps their ES/LS strategy is perfectly planned.

Yes that was exactly my point, 1 is best, the closest you can get to a whole number without setting up extreme unrealistic expectations.

You dont cross shop LS and ES and walk away with the ES. ES may look good from the outside but the difference of the interior is vast, you can tell without even seeing the cars in person.

To continue looking for reasons that justify LS buyers opting for the ES is just unrealistic.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

To continue looking for reasons that justify LS buyers opting for the ES is just unrealistic.

This needs to be repeated. I understand everyone likes to make the ES the villain of the demise of the GS and to assume its now hunting larger prey, but that's just not realistic. Even a well-equipped GS is a noticeable step down from the LS (and that step gets steeper when it's the LS500 instead of the 460); the ES at half the LS's price doesn't stand a chance of stacking up. And even if you excuse the ES itself by saying evil dealer salespeople moved GS buyers into an ES (something that absolutely didn't happen when I leased my GS), no salesman is going to be successful by steering people to a car worth probably half the commission.

Can we get back on topic now and post more LS reviews?

 

[LDeleuran]

It is time to bring in the less favorable reviews to see what the negatives are for the autojournos.

Autocar in the UK has this to say in their review: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/lexus/ls

Great materials, attention to detail and design, but unfortunately they only get the hybrid drivetrain in UK.

Other negatives are rear headroom, driving dynamics, infotainment, weight.

The reviewer has talked to the deputy chief engineer Shinji Kishida and asked why the car only gets this inadequate engine for the UK market, but there doesn't seem to be any useful answers. It was a bit grim to read, but we also have to be realistic: almost 2500kg. for the small hybrid drivetrain is perhaps just too tall ana order.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

Yeah, that's not good only offering the hybrid. Is there some tax or other reason they don't just offer the non-hybrid LS500 in the UK?

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

Yeah, that's not good only offering the hybrid. Is there some tax or other reason they don't just offer the non-hybrid LS500 in the UK?

Taxes are one of the factors why Lexus has gone hybrid-only in a good number of Western European markets, with special-order RC F and GS F the sole exceptions.

 

[spwolf]

Yeah, that's not good only offering the hybrid. Is there some tax or other reason they don't just offer the non-hybrid LS500 in the UK?

Because nobody buys non hybrid petrol in western Europe... Taxes are one part but also high fuel consumption worries lead to really poor resale value.

In the end it is diesel or hybrid... I don't remember seeing petrol S class in a very long time .

 

[Gecko]

For reference...

2019 Audi A8 pricing has leaked. Base price: $83,800 excluding destination. That gets you the 335hp turbo V6 engine. Level 3 autonomous tech won't be offered in the States to start.

$75k LS 500 with 416hp is looking really good.

Source: https://www.motorauthority.com/news...ed-level-3-self-driving-tech-not-coming-to-us

 

[Ian Schmidt]

Looks like the A8's gone full touchscreen like the Model 3. Makes me appreciate the radio and HVAC knobs and switches in the LS more.

 

[ssun30]

I'm shocked European reviewers would call the 500h "inadequate". I thought only Americans complain about a car not being able to do 0-60 in 5s.

I've driven enough roads (about 7,000km) in UK to say road conditions are similar to China. They are narrow and slow, and honestly even the LS350 with its "puny 318hp" feels overpowered on these roads.

If anything, the LS could need a even lower-spec hybrid drivetrain like 300h to scoop up some people buying 2.0 diesels. But they don't since it's embarrassing for the brand.

 

[Joe]

I'm shocked European reviewers would call the 500h "inadequate". I thought only Americans complain about a car not being able to do 0-60 in 5s.

I've driven enough roads (about 7,000km) in UK to say road conditions are similar to China. They are narrow and slow, and honestly even the LS350 with its "puny 318hp" feels overpowered on these roads.

A lot of journalists drive every car like the next Porsche 911 and expect it to handle the same