Reviews: The Fifth Generation (XF50) Lexus LS

[Gecko]

Seems every article mentions "adequate" power and turbo lag. They got 0-60 in 5.2 seconds, way off the Lexus claim.

We need a V-8. bad.

Lexus really messed this one up. I have yet to see a real world 0-60 test under 5 seconds, when Lexus quotes 4.6 seconds. 3.5L TT V6 is a great base engine but there needs to be an upmarket V8 option. Right now, you can get a more powerful C class than you can a Lexus LS - and that is not counting C63 AMG.

Hell, new ES is going to be 302hp and 3,700lbs... it will be under 6 seconds 0-60 and bigger inside than LS. WTF is going on here? If Lexus isn't careful, ES is going to kill off the LS just like it did the GS.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Right now, you can get a more powerful C class than you can a Lexus LS - and that is not counting C63 AMG.

That's incorrect good sir. The C43 AMG used to make 362 hp and now makes 385. The LS makes 416 hp in the standard LS, though this is discounting the LS350 and the LS500h. However yes, the V8's do obviously make more power.

It does makes me think though, this V6 is EXTREMELY powerful among the flagship V6 cars, also being reliable. 416 horsepower is no joke whatsoever. However it is in a weird grey area where three things could solve it:

- Introduce a weaker model, making the TTV6 the flagship
- Introduce a V8 option, making the TTV6 an entry level engine only
- Introduce both options! Have options for the customers to choose.

Having a V8 (not even F at this point, because I think they gave up on that based on the news I am hearing) on a luxury based side, pushing at least another 100-120 horsepower bump over the V6 shouldn't be that bad. It could dwindle the complaints of customers of not having a V8, could bring more potential customers, also it can increase it's flagship status! It's a win-win situation.

However, I don't know what the progress of the V8 is. @Carmaker1, or anyone else out there (don't just want to single out one person) do you guys happen to know on the progress of the new V8? When are you thinking it could get released? In my humble opinion, the new V8 should be out by the time when the new generation of BOF trucks/SUV's or even crossovers come out in the next 3 years or so.

I know this post sounds a little redundant and I may have said something like this before, but I am getting a little scared on how there are barely any news coming out of TMC.

 

[Levi]

I know this post sounds a little redundant and I may have said something like this before, but I am getting a little scared on how there are barely any news coming out of TMC.

It is as if TMC does not know what decision to make, so they wait.

 

[krew]

The Drive: Lawrence Ulrich Reviews the 2018 Lexus LS 500

Much preferred over the hybrid.

View the original article post

 

[Ian Schmidt]

Great review! Most LS500 reviews give short shrift to just how improved the dynamics are, how great the torque feels kicking your butt, and how awesome the engine bark is under hard acceleration.

 

[Gecko]

 

[spwolf]

I know this post sounds a little redundant and I may have said something like this before, but I am getting a little scared on how there are barely any news coming out of TMC.

We know it is coming by next year... from Japanese mags.

As to Lexus saying anything, obviously they wont tell you to hold your LS purchase until next year, just like they did not announce CarPlay coming at next MY, even though it obviously is, or else certain amount of people would wait for it.

 

[ssun30]

As to Lexus saying anything, obviously they wont tell you to hold your LS purchase until next year, just like they did not announce CarPlay coming at next MY, even though it obviously is, or else certain amount of people would wait for it.

This. I don't understand why some want TMC to disclose their future plans so people stop buying current models and wait. It is a very bad business strategy.

 

[Levi]

This. I don't understand why some want TMC to disclose their future plans so people stop buying current models and wait. It is a very bad business strategy.

True, but no company does that unless deliberately, because by announcing an up-coming product they are keeping a customer from jumping ship. We clearly see this with electric cars PR from Germany. But I think those that want TMC to disclose their future plans are mostly BOF customers. This is understandable when the big sellers (Prado, Land Cruiser, Hilux, Tacoma/4Runner, Tundra/Sequoia) are getting over a 10 years life cycle, approaching the 15 years life cycle of the last Rolls Royce Phantom. The wait for the new LS has been very long, and for new engines even longer.

 

[spwolf]

True, but no company does that unless deliberately, because by announcing an up-coming product they are keeping a customer from jumping ship. We clearly see this with electric cars PR from Germany. But I think those that want TMC to disclose their future plans are mostly BOF customers. This is understandable when the big sellers (Prado, Land Cruiser, Hilux, Tacoma/4Runner, Tundra/Sequoia) are getting over a 10 years life cycle, approaching the 15 years life cycle of the last Rolls Royce Phantom. The wait for the new LS has been very long, and for new engines even longer.

BoF is best selling range for Toyota so they obviously wont tell us about something new until it happens. Tacoma is basically new, Prado got update this year, IMV range is 2 years old.

 

[ssun30]

So far it looks good that reviewers get along with the LS500. Sucks that I can't drive one because it's not available here.

 

[spwolf]

Hell, new ES is going to be 302hp and 3,700lbs... it will be under 6 seconds 0-60 and bigger inside than LS. WTF is going on here? If Lexus isn't careful, ES is going to kill off the LS just like it did the GS.

even more so goes for S450 and 740i. Are they also going to be dead from ES? I mean some common sense still has to be used .

You cant argue how ES needs stronger turbo V6 with AWD or else it is not a legitimate luxury vehicle and at the same time argue how base ES350 might kill LS500 because it is too fast.

Lexus is very good at separating their vehicles based on engine and amenities. For instance UX has 4cly 2.0l, NX has 2.0t and RX has V6 (LF-1 will have bi-turbo V6 i guess). For my personal taste as an european, I say give them all same engines and let them fight it out. But then many people scream (including journalists) how it has "same engine!!!" as a bad thing. So it feels like sometimes people are being negative to be negative.

LS500 has best V6 bi-turbo engine on the market, but somehow thats not enough. Despite weight penalty, in C/D comparo it was faster than competition while being more frugal. This is why the vehicle has been selling as well as it has.

 

[Gecko]

even more so goes for S450 and 740i. Are they also going to be dead from ES? I mean some common sense still has to be used .

You cant argue how ES needs stronger turbo V6 with AWD or else it is not a legitimate luxury vehicle and at the same time argue how base ES350 might kill LS500 because it is too fast.

Lexus is very good at separating their vehicles based on engine and amenities. For instance UX has 4cly 2.0l, NX has 2.0t and RX has V6 (LF-1 will have bi-turbo V6 i guess). For my personal taste as an european, I say give them all same engines and let them fight it out. But then many people scream (including journalists) how it has "same engine!!!" as a bad thing. So it feels like sometimes people are being negative to be negative.

LS500 has best V6 bi-turbo engine on the market, but somehow thats not enough. Despite weight penalty, in C/D comparo it was faster than competition while being more frugal. This is why the vehicle has been selling as well as it has.

I didn't say that without AWD and turbo V6, ES wouldn't be a legitimate luxury vehicle. I just said that would help close the gap left by the GS.

In reality, some shoppers will look at ES as "nice enough," "big enough," and "luxurious enough" now that it is the size of the LS and probably just opt for ES since it's going to be half the price. You can tell me that sounds crazy but it is now as big as LS (actually bigger) and offers very nice tech and luxury features. Same steering wheel, same 12.3" screen, rear seat amenities, etc. I don't think this will be as much of a problem for 740i and S450 as it will be for LS shoppers. I definitely agree that there is an LS customer who just wants an LS - the best that Lexus offers. I also think there is an LS shopper who was buying it before because it had the largest rear seat, nice features and was very comfortable. Now, ES is larger and more comfortable inside than LS. It will steal some sales from LS because of this for sure.

You can say this is extreme, but ES has already killed GS based on size/pricing/packaging. It is now even larger and more luxurious than before, which is not good for LS. Perhaps LS' newfound sporty personality will help differentiate it and bring in some new buyers who will offset those Lexus loyalists who will choose ES. Overall, Lexus is shaking up their entire passenger car portfolio between LS, ES, GS elimination and likelihood that IS becomes larger.

As @ssun30 mentioned before, ES and RX are both category killers because they hit on all the right points for shoppers and cost lest because of scale to produce them alongside Toyota products. Only problem for Lexus is when what gets killed is their own lineup. Of course, you will say this is not a problem at all.

 

[ssun30]

I didn't say that without AWD and turbo V6, ES wouldn't be a legitimate luxury vehicle. I just said that would help close the gap left by the GS.

In reality, some shoppers will look at ES as "nice enough," "big enough," and "luxurious enough" now that it is the size of the LS and probably just opt for ES since it's going to be half the price. You can tell me that sounds crazy but it is now as big as LS (actually bigger) and offers very nice tech and luxury features. Same steering wheel, same 12.3" screen, rear seat amenities, etc. I don't think this will be as much of a problem for 740i and S450 as it will be for LS shoppers. I definitely agree that there is an LS customer who just wants an LS - the best that Lexus offers. I also think there is an LS shopper who was buying it before because it had the largest rear seat, nice features and was very comfortable. Now, ES is larger and more comfortable inside than LS. It will steal some sales from LS because of this for sure.

You can say this is extreme, but ES has already killed GS based on size/pricing/packaging. It is now even larger and more luxurious than before, which is not good for LS. Perhaps LS' newfound sporty personality will help differentiate it and bring in some new buyers who will offset those Lexus loyalists who will choose ES. Overall, Lexus is shaking up their entire passenger car portfolio between LS, ES, GS elimination and likelihood that IS becomes larger.

As @ssun30 mentioned before, ES and RX are both category killers because they hit on all the right points for shoppers and cost lest because of scale to produce them alongside Toyota products. Only problem for Lexus is when what gets killed is their own lineup. Of course, you will say this is not a problem at all.

The LS is a status symbol car. People who want a status symbol car will never consider an ES. Dealers will try to talk people into buying an LS over an ES (happened to me), not the other way around, because an LS sale is several times more lucrative than an ES sale. Even if they do that, Lexus will clamp down such behavior immediately.

The GS got killed by the ES because it stood in ES's way. So people will go for the cheaper alternative, dealers want to get rid of GS inventories because they are a liability, and Akio Toyoda wanted it dead five years ago. It's easy for a salesperson to say "hey check out this $10k cheaper ES that offers the same equipment and engine as this GS" but not "hey this 40k ES is as good as our 80k flagship". Customers will obviously tell it's BS (from common sense), plus it's downright stupid for the salesperson to talk customers into buying something that has less commission.

What happened to the GS is not applicable to the LS. LS does not stand in ES's way. If anything, the LF-1 will be the car that sends the LS into oblivion. That is sure to happen.

 

[Gecko]

The LS is a status symbol car. People who want a status symbol car will never consider an ES. Dealers will try to talk people into buying an LS over an ES (happened to me), not the other way around, because an LS sale is several times more lucrative than an ES sale. Even if they do that, Lexus will clamp down such behavior immediately.

This is exactly what people said about GS 10-15 years ago, so while see your POV and the logic in it, I do not necessarily have faith it will work out like that. For status alone, I think many LS buyers will stick with the car. But for those who were buying it for space, comfort and reliability... ES offers those things in spades and the Lexus buyer is still a much more value-conscious one than most luxury shoppers. We will see how it shakes out in the years ahead.

 

[ssun30]

We will see how it shakes out in the years ahead.

We probably won't be to tell what ES will do to the LS, because the LF-1 will be there to kill the LS almost guaranteed.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

This is exactly what people said about GS 10-15 years ago, so while see your POV and the logic in it, I do not necessarily have faith it will work out like that.

The GS was never the flagship though. It was an undefined car where neither Lexus nor its dealers knew exactly what it was, because it's the tweener between the IS and a rip-roaring performance sedan that never existed. (If the LS F does arrive, it could be that car, but too late).

LS is in far more danger from the LF-1 under current market conditions. However good the ES is, it's not going to have an interior as good as the LS500, and if you think otherwise you haven't been in an LS500.

 

[spwolf]

LS is in far more danger from the LF-1 under current market conditions. However good the ES is, it's not going to have an interior as good as the LS500, and if you think otherwise you haven't been in an LS500.

If we go by this, Lexus would have only one sedan and one suv, and one coupe, so other cars would not hurt its sales. And Lexus would then sell 300k GS's per year .

LF-1 is going to be performance suv... very much unlike RX and more like LC... and I bet it wont be huge sales success because it wont be roomy enough or affordable enough for your average Lexus buyers, so Lexus complainers will complain about it just like they complain about LC for instance, which in reality has no Audi or BMW competition since those brands have been investing so much into lower end of the lineup.

 

[spwolf]

As @ssun30 mentioned before, ES and RX are both category killers because they hit on all the right points for shoppers and cost lest because of scale to produce them alongside Toyota products. Only problem for Lexus is when what gets killed is their own lineup. Of course, you will say this is not a problem at all.

I dont quite understand how do you want Lexus to be more like Germans, and then complain that ES350 is LS500 competition.
ES350 is very far away from LS500.

A6, 5 series, E class are much, much closer competition to their more higher end versions and the sky did not fall down on them. There is much less difference between those models than between ES350 and LS500, and thats both interior options and powertrains.

If anything, I would trully want ES to have AWD, V6 bi-turbo, higher end interior options like quilted leather, japanese glass, etc, and all for $65k.
And I am sure you would love it too... but then you would complain that it would kill LS .

I just dont understand arguing both sides of the argument. But again, Lexus is very good at separating their models, much more so than Germans, so it is least thing you should be worried about... unlike with Germans.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

I agree. Audi in particular has a crazy amount of overlap between their cars and they seem to be doing fine. Rationally you'd remove all the odd-numbered Audis and then you'd have a solid lineup, but they're not doing that. They're living the Steve Jobs philosophy on cannibalization: it's better to steal sales from yourself than to have someone else stealing from you.