Official Lexus Future Product & Powertrain Megathread

[Sulu]

The Skyactiv-X Inline-6 is not meant to be in the same class as the V35A. The power targets are completely different. The 350hp rumor is very new to me since Skyactiv-X has a target of 60-70 kW/L not 90. We should not expect the Skyactiv-X to come anywhere close to 416hp.

Given the cost of the Skyactiv-X system it will be a niche powertrain for eco-conscious models. But Mazda has again missed the mark here: building a cheaper tech ICE and combining it with a proper power-split hybrid system is going to be much, much more efficient than the expensive wonder engine coupled to a weak 48V mild-hybrid. Lexus would be much better off combining its 2.4T Inline-4 with the multi-stage hybrid than Inline-6 Skyactiv-X with 48V. The 2.4T will be a drop-in upgrade for the 8GR-FXS on a proven system that has been in production since 2017 while a new I6 mild-hybrid is an unprovent clean-sheet design. Lexus has nothing to gain and a lot to lose by making this switch.

The latest WLTP cycles really showed the ugly colors of the 48V mild hybrid. Instead of 15-20% claimed gains on NEDC the WLTP (also real world) economy gains is only 5-10% vs. a dumb start-stop system.

Toyota eventually in its ICE evolution roadmap wants a lean-burn HCCI engine with an electrically-driven supercharger targeting a thermal efficiency of 46%+, and Mazda basically did most of the work for it (the only missing piece now is the E-supercharger). However I don't know if they are still committed to improving ICEs. It will depend on their SSB progress in the first half of this decade.

I remember news of Mazda using the Toyota Hybrid system and after a little searching, I found this 10-year old headline:

Future Mazda Hybrids To Use Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive Technology

Future Mazda Hybrids To Use Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive Technology

Mazda has long been known for its high-efficiency, fun-to-drive gasoline engines. It's also developing diesels. But the company had little ongoing research in hybrid and electric cars aside from its unusual hydrogen rotary hybrid research vehicle. Now the mystery of where Mazda will find that...

www.greencarreports.com

So where is this full hybrid Mazda vehicle? It seems that Mazda's intent is to go its own way with internal combustion technology.

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

So where is this full hybrid Mazda vehicle?

The only hybrid Mazda ever made using Toyota technology was a JDM-only version of the previous (3rd-gen) Mazda3 sedan, offered there between 2014 and 2018.

 

[spwolf]

Problem with Mazda's powertrain strategy is that it was advanced enough to be at the top or near the top of satisfying all the various legislations with Skyactive... but the next step is simply not there, just like with most Europeans, 48v is brining almost nothing to the table which is why everyone keeps delaying it as further as possible.

Toyota has that next step - full hybrids that are profitable and make the difference.

 

[Sulu]

The only hybrid Mazda ever made using Toyota technology was a JDM-only version of the previous (3rd-gen) Mazda3 sedan, offered there between 2014 and 2018.

This is the model I was looking for but could not find it. I guess it was a place-filler until the SkyActiv-X came out for this generation.

 

[Sulu]

Problem with Mazda's powertrain strategy is that it was advanced enough to be at the top or near the top of satisfying all the various legislations with Skyactive... but the next step is simply not there, just like with most Europeans, 48v is brining almost nothing to the table which is why everyone keeps delaying it as further as possible.

Toyota has that next step - full hybrids that are profitable and make the difference.

48V Hybrid = easily-engineered compliance vehicle?

 

[spwolf]

48V Hybrid = easily-engineered compliance vehicle?

sure but since everyone is waiting so much for it, does not seem so easy or cheap.

Besides, they will work only short term.

 

[ssun30]

48V Hybrid = easily-engineered compliance vehicle?

Basically a 'cheat' to get low CO2 emissions ratings on NEDC and JC08. WLTP disrupted all the plans as 48V mild-hybrid is next to useless for their cost. Part of the reason European manufacturers are accelerating the shift to P2 PHEV, which under WLTP still 'cheats'.

Problem with Mazda's powertrain strategy is that it was advanced enough to be at the top or near the top of satisfying all the various legislations with Skyactive... but the next step is simply not there

It completely confuses me that back in 2014 when they demonstrated Skyactiv-X they benchmarked it against Gen 3 Prius saying it has same carbon footprint as a HEV and lower than BEV, but Skyactiv-X was supposed to come out in 2018 or ten years after introduction of the XW30 Prius. They were also comparing against primitive BEVs from late 2000s. Benchmarking your product against 10-year-old technology assuming competitions stand still isn't the smartest thing to do...

They should have just licensed HSD like Subaru did and combine it with Skyactiv-G. Low cost, instantly competitive, and conforms to all regulations.

 

[mikeavelli]

All the rumors don’t say a collab, Just Mazda. The other thing is it totally changes design and Lexus design is already done as CARMAKER1 would tell us.

 

[CRSKTN]

thus be a fraternal twin to the next-gen Mazda6

That would be a big nail in the coffin for me as a fan of the brand, to be honest.

 

[emptystreets130]

Yeah, the new Genesis G80 and GV80 have 14" screens. Obviously Tesla has a TV inside lol....

Audi's screens have been amazing for quite sometimes. It always struck me as odd that the Japanese brands have the worst screens and multimedia while the Germans are on point with them.

If we all remember, back in 1992 or so when Lexus debuted the signature "light saber" look across the line, it was super revolutionary. Everything else was analog.

Sorry, I'm not on here much. But yes, I agree that Audi has an amazing screen. Same with MB and BMW. It's just the amount of information is mind-blowing, in a good way. I use to be an LTS for Lexus and I had this client who is an engineer at a big organization. He would always come to me asking if the Lexus system can display certain information and my answer is always no and then he compares it to MB or BMW. Well, fortunately, I work for the other brands as well and hopped in their vehicle and boy, the amount of live vehicle info is just pure joy for someone who is technical. I just want Lexus to display that kind of info on their massive screen.

 

[mikeavelli]

Sorry, I'm not on here much. But yes, I agree that Audi has an amazing screen. Same with MB and BMW. It's just the amount of information is mind-blowing, in a good way. I use to be an LTS for Lexus and I had this client who is an engineer at a big organization. He would always come to me asking if the Lexus system can display certain information and my answer is always no and then he compares it to MB or BMW. Well, fortunately, I work for the other brands as well and hopped in their vehicle and boy, the amount of live vehicle info is just pure joy for someone who is technical. I just want Lexus to display that kind of info on their massive screen.

Yup and it’s part of luxury now. 4K hell 8k TVs etc. I hop in my LC and the screen looks like it’s from the 1980s compared to the Germans. I remember my first time driving the current R8 with google maps showing in the gauge cluster. That was like 4 years ago! Heck partner up with Sony or somebody!

 

[Levi]

Sorry, I'm not on here much. But yes, I agree that Audi has an amazing screen. Same with MB and BMW. It's just the amount of information is mind-blowing, in a good way. I use to be an LTS for Lexus and I had this client who is an engineer at a big organization. He would always come to me asking if the Lexus system can display certain information and my answer is always no and then he compares it to MB or BMW. Well, fortunately, I work for the other brands as well and hopped in their vehicle and boy, the amount of live vehicle info is just pure joy for someone who is technical. I just want Lexus to display that kind of info on their massive screen.

The screen might be good but the info not. There is too much info, total overload. For everyone different things though.

It is so nice not to have fuel consumption display and range left, makes driving a lot more pleasant, no urge to hypermile.

 

[emptystreets130]

The screen might be good but the info not. There is too much info, total overload. For everyone different things though.

It is so nice not to have fuel consumption display and range left, makes driving a lot more pleasant, no urge to hypermile.

User preference. I prefer to see those kind of information.

 

[Sulu]

Sorry, I'm not on here much. But yes, I agree that Audi has an amazing screen. Same with MB and BMW. It's just the amount of information is mind-blowing, in a good way. I use to be an LTS for Lexus and I had this client who is an engineer at a big organization. He would always come to me asking if the Lexus system can display certain information and my answer is always no and then he compares it to MB or BMW. Well, fortunately, I work for the other brands as well and hopped in their vehicle and boy, the amount of live vehicle info is just pure joy for someone who is technical. I just want Lexus to display that kind of info on their massive screen.

As an engineer, I appreciate technology in cars. But when the "technology" that auto enthusiasts now obsess over is an infotainment screen (and not the engine or transmission), I am thinking that something has gone absolutely wrong.

Does the resolution of the infotainment screen improve driving quality? Does it make the car handle better? Does it improve fuel efficiency? No? So why the obsession with it?

I have the navigation system in my ESh but cannot stand to have the bright screen with constantly moving images in my peripheral vision, so I have set a home screen with dark, static graphics that does not bother me when I am driving. When I am driving, I prefer to be driving, not focusing on an infotainment screen.

 

[Gecko]

When I am driving, I prefer to be driving, not focusing on an infotainment screen.

Unfortunately, you, me, and about 5% of drivers fit into this category, and companies have to build cars for the other 95%.

 

[emptystreets130]

As an engineer, I appreciate technology in cars. But when the "technology" that auto enthusiasts now obsess over is an infotainment screen (and not the engine or transmission), I am thinking that something has gone absolutely wrong.

Does the resolution of the infotainment screen improve driving quality? Does it make the car handle better? Does it improve fuel efficiency? No? So why the obsession with it?

I have the navigation system in my ESh but cannot stand to have the bright screen with constantly moving images in my peripheral vision, so I have set a home screen with dark, static graphics that does not bother me when I am driving. When I am driving, I prefer to be driving, not focusing on an infotainment screen.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I also have my screen in the GS off or on the music because I can't stand it. But from a consumer point of view, they want the eye candy to show off. I look at all my data offline and on a PC.

 

[Levi]

Car makers but also laptop makers are slow, ambient light sensor as on smartphones should have been standard 10 years ago. There should at least have been brightness toggle switches as on laptops.

Or have there been?

 

[Tragic Bronson]

Does the resolution of the infotainment screen improve driving quality? Does it make the car handle better? Does it improve fuel efficiency? No? So why the obsession with it?

Hard to explain, but its what the general public wants in a luxury vehicle, which is more than what they actually use. Model 3 has the biggest one...I've seen it in action and it is pretty cool. Personally, I don't want too much in one but having Carplay would just be my requirement.

 

[Will1991]

In my opinion, Lexus has a excellent interior and a good infotainment if we go for the bigger screen:

I don't get ever bigger screens, (honest question) how do you cope with something like MBUX/Tesla/Honda e at night in low light conditions... There is so much light coming against your eyes it should be tiring as hell...

Unfortunately I haven't driven a ES, my only experience is in a stationary car and everything is well placed, you don't need to stretch to anything, it's perfect.

Lexus is also keeping buttons to operate the climate and radio control, there is something called muscle memory, is so much better to use while driving than everything on screen... In a Model 3 you even have to take your eyes of the road to do so many basic function is insane, almost dangerous...

For me, given now we finally have Car Play and Android Auto, the worst thing about Lexus is still offering this base spec infotainment crap that looks straight out of a Dacia:

 

[LexsCTJill]

In my opinion, Lexus has a excellent interior and a good infotainment if we go for the bigger screen:

I don't get ever bigger screens, (honest question) how do you cope with something like MBUX/Tesla/Honda e at night in low light conditions... There is so much light coming against your eyes it should be tiring as hell...

Unfortunately I haven't driven a ES, my only experience is in a stationary car and everything is well placed, you don't need to stretch to anything, it's perfect.

Lexus is also keeping buttons to operate the climate and radio control, there is something called muscle memory, is so much better to use while driving than everything on screen... In a Model 3 you even have to take your eyes of the road to do so many basic function is insane, almost dangerous...

For me, given now we finally have Car Play and Android Auto, the worst thing about Lexus is still offering this base spec infotainment crap that looks straight out of a Dacia:

Yes. I agree. The only thing I do not like about Lexus models is that there is no AC button for manual users like myself who like to use the manual fan, direction and AC settings