Official Lexus Future Powertrain & Product Discussion

Levi

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Next 7 Series is to loose both V12 and V8, with BEV version joining. Next M5 is said to be I6+Electric instead of V8. Who knows...
 
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Lexus needs a huge 2021 I agree with you. I am a dead loyal to Lexus as my picture of two Lexus cars show but when you look at the model lineup and compare it to other brands beside the LC they are behind or on par with competition at best. This virus can give them "a pass" in sales (like all companies seem to be using right now!) but they need new products and they need them now. I know we all have had a lot of conversations on this topic (some quite spirited :) ) but I think we can all agree that the Lexus product line is too old to truly competitive. I bought my GS in 2017 (I agree with what mikeavelli said in the GS thread and I also always wanted a GS and in 17 there was no way I would have purchased anything else because I assumed the GS would be dead soon after) and I knew at the time that the 0-60 times and interior were behind at least some of the competitors but it was the idea of having a GS that made me get it. But now that I have it (and I love it by the way only wish I got the full F!) I want more from the next car. New technologies, improved interior, more HP (of course!), and just a new body style. I'll be sad if or when the GS dies but for my sake of staying with Lexus and others as well, we just need new models all over the lineup. Some models need brand new designs, some need V-8 engines back (LS), and some need a bloody F model already (LC for the love of God how hard is it!!). I hope what Gecko said about maybe they did everything with Toyota first and now are working on Lexus (backwards in my opinion) is true, otherwise what has Lexus become? If we are in the truly in the world where Lexus is compared to the Genesis now and not the big 3 of the Germans, Lexus effed up. Yes having a large consumer base and having more inexpensive models is where you make the majority of your money but you need to have excitement at the top of your model line. And to be honest how exciting truly is an LS with no V8 option at all? Don't get me wrong absolutely beautiful car that I would totally own, but to not even have a full V-8 option for your flagship car? Hoping to the new Lexus President gets this changed quickly and makes the correct changes for our model lineup.

On a side note I am binge watching the 24 series in our lovely stay at home from work crap right now, and damn it is nice seeing Lexus cars in a feature role (I think Toyota was sponsor but all the guys seem to be mostly driving Lexus cars!). For their marketing state it would be nice to have something else like that. Black Panther and the LC was great but didn't seem to have the same effect as say Iron Man and his R8 did.
Hi James!

I know everyone want the “emotion” for Lexus! But Kevin Watts he bring the news “sato” will expand the brand with F sport and F performance in the lineup in my opinion means they going bring back as before like (LS) with the v8’s again with new updates maybe to F performance, GS F, RC F, with the new LC F, LX F and LS F v8 twin turbo in the future with cars/sport cars v8s also Electrification and autonomous will bring to the brand. Everyone love the (IS) series 2 gen just asking performance and capacity is bit tight inside was in that time. Maybe will be same as (IS) 2 gen with today a days with style language, safety, features and tech with larger capacity and performance can be more interesting and fun. I am a big fan from Toyota / Lexus for good or worse situations, I still love it. I just say this to get back their fans and new fan.
 

mikeavelli

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Your post does a great job of illustrating why I am so confused about all of this. Looking at the above, it's like Toyota and Lexus are two completely different companies. I just don't understand the stark contrast in product strategy and execution.

My only theory is that Toyoda wanted to get the core business "right" before moving onto correct the issues at Lexus, so I'm optimistic that the tides may turn in Lexus' favor during this decade.
After Aiko took over and we had the LFA delivered in 2011/2012 it felt like this decade was going to be the product onslaught but that just didn't happen. Some of it too is Lexus did update some things but the competition is moving faster and growing. I also keep hearing "Genesis" thrown in the conversation, something that could not be said just five years ago. We also saw them turn to a "lifestyle" brand with efforts into the Yacht, movies, etc...

I agree Toyota has really blown me away with focus and with new product. They really have gotten it together and it is quite impressive to see the lineup today and where its headed.

We all know it goes back to product. Lexus knows this better than anyone. If the original LS was not built to the standard it was, we likely would not be sitting here talking. In this ultra competitive environment it is going to take some monster product going forward.
 
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While I don't think the situation is as bad, but we've seen Toyota go down a desolate road before, with Scion. I'm curious what went behind the scenes there, and if Japan was fighting US management or not, since I'm sure with Lexus and Toyota, those kinds of issues have come up. Since Jim Lentz is officially retired as of today, it would be interesting to pick his brain on what happened with it.
 
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While I don't think the situation is as bad, but we've seen Toyota go down a desolate road before, with Scion. I'm curious what went behind the scenes there, and if Japan was fighting US management or not, since I'm sure with Lexus and Toyota, those kinds of issues have come up. Since Jim Lentz is officially retired as of today, it would be interesting to pick his brain on what happened with it.
As a former Scion owner, they went downhill since they redesign their core models to be more Americanized. Bigger, bigger, bigger. The original xA and xB were selling like hotcakes because of its unique looks and the tC sold in masses because a lot of automotive journalists compared the tC to the original IS. Who made the changes for the 2nd gen models was mostly US management. They wanted something bigger and something blander.

As for Lexus, everything still hinges on Toyota. Still a lot of platform sharing which is why they are too slow to push out new products. Everyone around them is creating much better products than Lexus. A major midcycle refresh can go a long way, instead, Lexus only pushes out minor refresh.

Lexus is slow to react to changes not only to its vehicle lineup but also in marketing. I have seen very little marketing from Lexus corporate. Look at Genesis. They did a global launch of the G80 sedan and journalists are raving about it. Times are changing rapidly, more than ever.
 
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As a former Scion owner, they went downhill since they redesign their core models to be more Americanized. Bigger, bigger, bigger. The original xA and xB were selling like hotcakes because of its unique looks and the tC sold in masses because a lot of automotive journalists compared the tC to the original IS. Who made the changes for the 2nd gen models was mostly US management. They wanted something bigger and something blander.

As for Lexus, everything still hinges on Toyota. Still a lot of platform sharing which is why they are too slow to push out new products. Everyone around them is creating much better products than Lexus. A major midcycle refresh can go a long way, instead, Lexus only pushes out minor refresh.

Lexus is slow to react to changes not only to its vehicle lineup but also in marketing. I have seen very little marketing from Lexus corporate. Look at Genesis. They did a global launch of the G80 sedan and journalists are raving about it. Times are changing rapidly, more than ever.
Believe it or not that’s why they are slow to updates theirs products because they want to bring something better, surprise, cool and fun to everyone to fan, or not, to does who likes and dislike the Toyota/ Lexus brand including to their products they prefer wait or slow. First they see theirs competitors to throw theirs products then Toyota/Lexus throw something much better than that. That’s make most difficult to everyone about time of updates to Toyota/Lexus brand always about ( products issues) as the definition mean the topic. Everyone know they are powerful companies Toyota/Lexus brands!
 

mediumhot

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Believe it or not that’s why they are slow to updates theirs products because they want to bring something better, surprise, cool and fun to everyone to fan, or not, to does who likes and dislike the Toyota/ Lexus brand including to their products they prefer wait or slow. First they see theirs competitors to throw theirs products then Toyota/Lexus throw something much better than that. That’s make most difficult to everyone about time of updates to Toyota/Lexus brand always about ( products issues) as the definition mean the topic. Everyone know they are powerful companies Toyota/Lexus brands!
I wish that was the case but the delay of LS has shown really the opposite. A brand new car that lacks in features and engines compared to competition even though it's the best designed car style wise both inside out in the segment sans little details IMHO. But driver's technology as well as UI both physical and digital is so 2015. Still one of the only four vehicles in the lineup that I love and would love to daily drive, other three being LC, RC-F and GS in Luxury Trim.
 
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I wish that was the case but the delay of LS has shown really the opposite. A brand new car that lacks in features and engines compared to competition even though it's the best designed car style wise both inside out in the segment sans little details IMHO. But driver's technology as well as UI both physical and digital is so 2015. Still one of the only four vehicles in the lineup that I love and would love to daily drive, other three being LC, RC-F and GS in Luxury Trim.
Yeah, LC, RC-F and GS are a beauty style design. I heard a lot of people fan or not that the brand 10-15 year ago was not exciting and theirs have been difficult in the products to updates but everyone love IS-F to be a model 2008-2014 and 2 gen IS that still pretty sick and people asked before in that time is performance and space is a bit tight. In my opinion they going to bring a performance and space with a mix 2 gen (IS) style with today’s cars but with today competitors features, tech and design would be adding better and quality that will fun and cool but the time is longer. Everyone love that’s cars as you mentioned RC-F, LC500 and GS-F sports car and luxury suv Rx’s and ES’s sedan. In North America they have this (products issues) maybe the rules and demand is different than Australia, I think. But NX and IS will come redesign and their engine will updates but there are no mentioned design, how will be. The leaked come a week ago everyone was tasted and still. For me the brands is not bad for me to be a bad quality products update and time.
 

spwolf

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considering what is happening in the world, it is "good" that they had nothing major this year.

Otherwise last year they had ES and UX, as well as RX facelift which got them to record sales in Europe and Japan.
 
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considering what is happening in the world, it is "good" that they had nothing major this year.

Otherwise last year they had ES and UX, as well as RX facelift which got them to record sales in Europe and Japan.
Yeah in other countries are selling so well successfully, imagine what coming next for them but I saw (USA/North America) have a issues in the sales in this year. Coronavirus is getting them feel little bit more tight and other manufacturers too. And USA/North America) are so well in the ES’s and RX’s but little bit decrease sales this year. North America, they are working so hard and fixing their mistakes and the products issues is making little things harder so basically are working hard to give greater sooner and future. There are great expected news will be unexpected that will give to people excited!
 

ssun30

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I recently found this article by JSAE discussing new generation ICEs. It seems this is the first documentation with the exact thermal efficiency number of the V35A-FTS. It's 37% or ~227 g/kWh BSFC, which is slightly higher than the 2GR-FKS (230g/kWh) and comparable to the 8GR-FXS.

It is not the most efficient forced induction engine out there since I don't think it uses the combined Atkinson/Otto cycle as other DF engines do (can't confirm). The Honda L15B7 and VW EA211 Evo2 are both slightly more efficient at 225g/kWh or 37.5% using simulated Atkinson cycle. However neither of these engines are designed to handle massive amounts of power and torque and both are Inline-4 designs which are inherently less lossy than V6. It is also nowhere near the 40% efficiency of the Nissan KR20DDET with variable compression, but the latter is a significantly more complex design.

Compared to the benchmark (Ford Ecoboost 99G) it's noticeably more efficient. The 272kW (365hp) gen-2 variant used on the F-150 was tested by SAE to have a thermal efficiency of 35% or 238g/kWh, while being 13% less powerful than the V35A variant on the LS500. The 335kW(450hp) variant used on the Raptor should be even less efficient due to lower compression ratio.

The V35A-FTS and the 8GR-FXS Multistage are two very impressive powertrains that are heldback by a car weighing over 2200kg. Both would be much better received by the media if they were able to show their true potential on a lighter car like the GS. If only...
 
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Believe it or not that’s why they are slow to updates theirs products because they want to bring something better, surprise, cool and fun to everyone to fan, or not, to does who likes and dislike the Toyota/ Lexus brand including to their products they prefer wait or slow. First they see theirs competitors to throw theirs products then Toyota/Lexus throw something much better than that. That’s make most difficult to everyone about time of updates to Toyota/Lexus brand always about ( products issues) as the definition mean the topic. Everyone know they are powerful companies Toyota/Lexus brands!
I disagree. Lexus has always been behind the curve. They may be the first to launch a redesign but by the time their competitor launches their redesign, even a few months down the road, Lexus is still miles behind, in terms of tech. I work for a multi-brand dealership. I see the MB, Jag/LR, Volvo, etc and I'm amazed at how "futuristic" their in-cabin techs are. Massive 10" screens for the infotainment, 12.3" digital display for the gauges, an advance monitoring system that puts out info such as torque distribution, hp, suspension damping rates, etc (I like information like that.) It's eye candy for me. I'm a techie person.

It was cool when Lexus put the first 12.3" display in their GS but they haven't done much to it. It's still the same 10.2", 12.3", etc "static" display, nothing appealing, no new information, the worst app system ever. Lexus has fallen behind. There is nothing worth doing in their massive display. It would have been cool if they added more streaming app services, like pandora again or Spotify, add more on the fly vehicle stats, or even adapt google services as they have in certain parts of the world. Right now it's just a dummy terminal with outdated services. Pretty much you have to rely on an aftermarket unit to add additional function like an Android OS. Come on Lexus, LF-A inspired gauge, it's getting old. The novelty has worn out. The Corolla has a semi-digital gauge!

Chassis dynamics are another big one. When they launched the redesign RX, it was horrible. Sloppy and doesn't inspire confidence on the road. You couldn't compare the RX with any of the competitors. In my head, I'm thinking, why the hell did they release a vehicle with handling like this. My coworkers agreed. Well, Lexus fixed that in the midcycle refresh by adding more adhesive and it was a massive improvement. The RX is more solid on the road. The GX and LX, well, still riding on a decade-old platform, along with the Land Cruiser, 4Runner and Tundra.
 
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I disagree. Lexus has always been behind the curve. They may be the first to launch a redesign but by the time their competitor launches their redesign, even a few months down the road, Lexus is still miles behind, in terms of tech. I work for a multi-brand dealership. I see the MB, Jag/LR, Volvo, etc and I'm amazed at how "futuristic" their in-cabin techs are. Massive 10" screens for the infotainment, 12.3" digital display for the gauges, an advance monitoring system that puts out info such as torque distribution, hp, suspension damping rates, etc (I like information like that.) It's eye candy for me. I'm a techie person.

It was cool when Lexus put the first 12.3" display in their GS but they haven't done much to it. It's still the same 10.2", 12.3", etc "static" display, nothing appealing, no new information, the worst app system ever. Lexus has fallen behind. There is nothing worth doing in their massive display. It would have been cool if they added more streaming app services, like pandora again or Spotify, add more on the fly vehicle stats, or even adapt google services as they have in certain parts of the world. Right now it's just a dummy terminal with outdated services. Pretty much you have to rely on an aftermarket unit to add additional function like an Android OS. Come on Lexus, LF-A inspired gauge, it's getting old. The novelty has worn out. The Corolla has a semi-digital gauge!

Chassis dynamics are another big one. When they launched the redesign RX, it was horrible. Sloppy and doesn't inspire confidence on the road. You couldn't compare the RX with any of the competitors. In my head, I'm thinking, why the hell did they release a vehicle with handling like this. My coworkers agreed. Well, Lexus fixed that in the midcycle refresh by adding more adhesive and it was a massive improvement. The RX is more solid on the road. The GX and LX, well, still riding on a decade-old platform, along with the Land Cruiser, 4Runner and Tundra.
But they already announced that Lexus will make a update for 2021 and future vehicles with more safety, features, tech, designs and performance.
 
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mikeavelli

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I disagree. Lexus has always been behind the curve. They may be the first to launch a redesign but by the time their competitor launches their redesign, even a few months down the road, Lexus is still miles behind, in terms of tech. I work for a multi-brand dealership. I see the MB, Jag/LR, Volvo, etc and I'm amazed at how "futuristic" their in-cabin techs are. Massive 10" screens for the infotainment, 12.3" digital display for the gauges, an advance monitoring system that puts out info such as torque distribution, hp, suspension damping rates, etc (I like information like that.) It's eye candy for me. I'm a techie person.

It was cool when Lexus put the first 12.3" display in their GS but they haven't done much to it. It's still the same 10.2", 12.3", etc "static" display, nothing appealing, no new information, the worst app system ever. Lexus has fallen behind. There is nothing worth doing in their massive display. It would have been cool if they added more streaming app services, like pandora again or Spotify, add more on the fly vehicle stats, or even adapt google services as they have in certain parts of the world. Right now it's just a dummy terminal with outdated services. Pretty much you have to rely on an aftermarket unit to add additional function like an Android OS. Come on Lexus, LF-A inspired gauge, it's getting old. The novelty has worn out. The Corolla has a semi-digital gauge!

Chassis dynamics are another big one. When they launched the redesign RX, it was horrible. Sloppy and doesn't inspire confidence on the road. You couldn't compare the RX with any of the competitors. In my head, I'm thinking, why the hell did they release a vehicle with handling like this. My coworkers agreed. Well, Lexus fixed that in the midcycle refresh by adding more adhesive and it was a massive improvement. The RX is more solid on the road. The GX and LX, well, still riding on a decade-old platform, along with the Land Cruiser, 4Runner and Tundra.
Yeah, the new Genesis G80 and GV80 have 14" screens. Obviously Tesla has a TV inside lol....

Audi's screens have been amazing for quite sometimes. It always struck me as odd that the Japanese brands have the worst screens and multimedia while the Germans are on point with them.

If we all remember, back in 1992 or so when Lexus debuted the signature "light saber" look across the line, it was super revolutionary. Everything else was analog.
 
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Yeah, the new Genesis G80 and GV80 have 14" screens. Obviously Tesla has a TV inside lol....

Audi's screens have been amazing for quite sometimes. It always struck me as odd that the Japanese brands have the worst screens and multimedia while the Germans are on point with them.

If we all remember, back in 1992 or so when Lexus debuted the signature "light saber" look across the line, it was super revolutionary. Everything else was analog.
Well, I heard a lot of people that everything in older and 2006-14 Lexus cars have great details and design is more forward then the competitors and people just asking for folding seats, interior capacities and performance. So, I believe they going to mix this pass opportunity with the same is used today with a mix with pass, present with future details and design but I think designs older vehicles never updated will be new, I think!
 
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