Next-Generation Lexus LS to Debut at Tokyo Motor Show in October?

[Gecko]

Still remember that concept. It was gorgeous then, and is gorgeous now!

 

[mikeavelli]

I think the LS has aged magnificently...Its ten years old and the overall shape is the same outside of the new spindle front end.

 

[corradoMR2]

Yeah I'd be surprised to see a MY 2017 LS be unveiled this fall. More likely the concept like we saw the LF-NX in 2013 then production unveil in April 2014 to be sold later that year as MY 2015.

- LS500 specs point to the current RC F engine. Not bad for the likely "entry-level" engine In the N.A. market.

- LS500h specs surprisingly talk about the V8 hybrid when rumours pointed to a demise of this combination in favor of a V6 hybrid. What doesn't add up is like the CT, ES, GS, IS, NX, RX, and current LS, their monikers represent a smaller displacement engine but with the equivalent power of a similar larger displacement engine with the additional electric boost. In short, either the reported spec of a V8 hybrid is correct and Lexus is changing their naming method or the V8 is wrong and it's a V6 hybrid for the 500h moniker.

@Andyl, great find LS250t ??? Imagine the IS250's 4GR-FSE 2.5L V6 with a turbo? That would be buttery smooth AND powerful - wishful thinking on my part for repurposing a 10-year-old engine in the Lexus flagship. Still, this moniker is intriguing and raises a tonne of questions on what engine lurks underneath!

Finally, please Lexus, lets see the fuel cell in production too!

 

[Carmaker1]

While I agree with your reasoning, and would absolutely love to see the next-gen LS in Tokyo, I have some doubts unfortunately as to how likely this is going to be. As krew pointed out, if the LS debuts in Tokyo this year, it would contradict Jeff Bracken's statement early this year about the number of new models and refreshes due for Lexus this year. Also as krew pointed out, unless something significantly has changed timing-wise, it would be odd to see the LS at Tokyo. Now if timing for Lexus has indeed changed, then an updated statement from Lexus to clarify things would certainly go a long way. Then again, they could want to keep the timing secret.

My hypothesis: we might see an LS concept at Tokyo, and then the full production LS in Detroit early next year. If a production LS was going to show in Tokyo, as you pointed out, we should have been seeing camouflaged prototypes with production bodies being caught testing right now. Most recently, months before its recent Spring debut, new RX prototypes with camouflaged production bodies were spotted testing in several locations in Europe.

Aside from the inconsistency with the earlier statement from Lexus, the fact that we haven't seen any production-body prototypes photographed at all yet leads me to conclude that a Tokyo debut for the production LS would be too soon.

I would love to see it, just out of sheer anticipation. However if a production LS did appear in Tokyo, I would also have some doubts about the testing program. A redesign of this scale and importance would logically have a very long and exhaustive testing program.

I think that we may see production-body camouflaged prototypes of the new LS pop up in the next few months, which would fit logically with a Detroit debut early next year, along with showroom arrivals presumably late next year.

I have just discovered something, that is rather disappointing news. The next LS will appear as a concept in Tokyo, BUT it will likely not be unveiled as a production model until Paris 2016 or NAIAS 2017 as a 2017.5/MY2018. Japanese magazines keep pointing to a May 2017 time of launch or start of production, just as the LC begins production in November 2016.

I had heard on some sites in the 2013-14 period, that a summer 2017 launch was in the cards. These Japanese speculations match it very closely, as well as how mules have been barely spotted 2 years ahead of that. The RC, NX, and 4RX had the same exact pattern of 2 years ahead of production with test mules (not full-fledged prototypes).

It seems that it is consistent with the article from the Japanese magazine -- MAG X/2015-08 issue. In this magazine, there is a article that talks about what cars from different brands will appear in the Tokyo Motor Show 2015.

Here is some information from the article with regards to Lexus vehicles in Tokyo Motor Show 2015 (keep fingers crossed to see if it is true)

• LS250t will appear in the show for sure - it will have 4-dr coupe silhouette. The rest of the paragraph is purely speculation about the specifics. The title says downsizing engine and F-Sport model uses V8 turbo which are hard to believe...
• LC500 coupe - not yet confirmed if it is in the show. This will use the first FR chassis based on TNGA (Toyota New Global Architecture). Note: The first car that uses TNGA is the upcoming Toyota Prius which according to the magazine will appear in the upcoming Tokyo Motor Show.
• The new LX570 will appear in the show for sure - the picture is almost identical to what is on the headline of ClubLexus.

I shared this post on fb and the head of Lexus Norway commented "only as a concept". Perhaps it'll be a Detroit debut for the production vehicle then?

Thank you Andyl and Lasse J. Nordvik for your informative posts. I've been told by spwolf, it won't be called TNGA for FR models. At this rate, I'm not sure it will be specified LS250t, but maybe LF-LS?

 

[Carmaker1]

Well, this makes more sense, and I'm embarrassed that I didn't come to the same conclusion. As a timeline, I can see a concept, followed by the production LC in Detroit and the production LS in New York. Would follow the pattern of the past couple years:

• 2014: RC F in Detroit, NX in Beijing
• 2015: GS F in Detroit, RX in New York.

High performance followed by core model.

I am getting the impression, that it will not be launched next year for the 2017 model year. The LC is supposedly coming first, yet barely starts production in November 2016 and there's usually a 2 months delay with that. Japanese magazines have been hinting at a May 2017 launch, with some foreign outlets saying summer 2017.

I need my memory jogged but if I recall the last GEN LS 460 did debut as the LS-SH at the Tokyo Auto Show fall 2005..the car then debuted as a 2006 model in Detroit...

That is what I was referring to, as these spy shots were amongst the first to creep up, when just as the LF-Sh was being unveiled in October 2005. The 2007 LS then debuted on January 8, 2006, even after being leaked 3-4 months earlier.

 

[Carmaker1]

I need my memory jogged but if I recall the last GEN LS 460 did debut as the LS-SH at the Tokyo Auto Show fall 2005..the car then debuted as a 2006 model in Detroit...

Looks like XenForo stupidly screwed up and deleted my response above. That is what I was referring to in regards to the LF-Sh, debuting in October 2005, after these September 2005 leaks and just as the first XF40 prototypes started being caught on camera. The 2007 LS was unveiled on January 8, 2006, but in this case we may not see this happening. I really hope I am wrong, but so far the evidence between the lines proves otherwise.

September 2005-4LS design leaked

I think the LS has aged magnificently...Its ten years old and the overall shape is the same outside of the new spindle front end.

Shocking thing about it is, all the conceptual ideals and development direction for the design was done by the end of 2003. Plus, when you were getting semi-accurate renders like these in early 2004, that had no previous basis for the 3rd-party artists to draw from on existing Lexus models and proposals, it is very clear that Lexus had designed much of the 4LS by late 2003 and is how such hints likely slipped out back then. That's 3 years early!

It is rather a revelation to me, as usually Japanese automakers keep that window of time very narrow, to ensure a proposal doesn't get too stale. The pre-facelift 4LS exterior was beautiful all-around, especially in Touring (or non-US) grade with the 5-spokes. The rear end of the 2009-2012 refresh was terrible due to taillight clustre design. The current iteration made up for that, but I will be shocked if it lasts 4.5 years out of a nearly 11 year total.

2006-2009 (Original 4LS)

2009-2012 (XF40 Facelift I)

2012-2017 (XF40 Facelift II)

Yeah I'd be surprised to see a MY 2017 LS be unveiled this fall. More likely the concept like we saw the LF-NX in 2013 then production unveil in April 2014 to be sold later that year as MY 2015.

- LS500 specs point to the current RC F engine. Not bad for the likely "entry-level" engine In the N.A. market.

- LS500h specs surprisingly talk about the V8 hybrid when rumours pointed to a demise of this combination in favor of a V6 hybrid. What doesn't add up is like the CT, ES, GS, IS, NX, RX, and current LS, their monikers represent a smaller displacement engine but with the equivalent power of a similar larger displacement engine with the additional electric boost. In short, either the reported spec of a V8 hybrid is correct and Lexus is changing their naming method or the V8 is wrong and it's a V6 hybrid for the 500h moniker.

@Andyl, great find LS250t ??? Imagine the IS250's 4GR-FSE 2.5L V6 with a turbo? That would be buttery smooth AND powerful - wishful thinking on my part for repurposing a 10-year-old engine in the Lexus flagship. Still, this moniker is intriguing and raises a tonne of questions on what engine lurks underneath!

Finally, please Lexus, lets see the fuel cell in production too!

Hmm, I wonder why I forgot a 2.5 litre would be a V6 instead of a 2.5 litre I4? I thought a 3.0l V6 would be the case, unless that is going to be twin-turbo and the LS250t (as a V6) not be. BTW, I do not believe the LS is following the LF-NX formula. It will be LF-LS at Tokyo, then 2018 LS at Detroit/NAIAS 2017.

 

[CIF]

Well Carmaker1, that would be disappointing news indeed, assuming the Japanese magazines are correct with the rumored launch date. We can only hope and see.

On the other hand, that launch date would support a very exhaustive test program. They have definitely been testing various components of the car for some time, and quite possibly may have started testing the full car in production body secretly in Japan. If the 2017 launch date is true, then that gives Lexus almost a full 2 years of testing it with the full car in production body, if not more (depending on exactly when secret Japanese testing started).