Lexus UX (UX 200, UX 250h, 300e) Megathread

[amoschen7]

Still, power equivalency is way better than 'torque equivalency' system VAG is experimenting with. Audi models now have severely inflated equivalency model numbers e.g. the Q3 30TFSI (actually a 140hp 1.4T) A4 40TFSI (190hp 2.0T) A6 45TFSI (250hp 2.0T) and A8 50TFSI (300hp 3.0SC). These cars don't even really have the torque the model numbers suggest. I call this false advertising since consumers are cheated to believing they are buying something much much better. The less knowledgeable common folks will think they are buying an A4 with a V8 when it is merely a 2.0 I4T. And this is extending to other VAG models as well. At least BMW underrate all their equivalency values. The 330i will smoke the A4 45TFSI any day, and the 340i is very comparable to a real V8.
Yet, a lot of people buy into all these BS because they think some extremely sophisticated German engineering is going on under the hood (for christ sake it's an iron block carried over from the 90s) , but complain Lexus overrate their hybrids.

You may have some misunderstanding about the Audi TFSI designation system. It is a weird system but it has nothing to do with displacement nor torque. It is an artificial calculation inversely related to 0-100Km/h acceleration speed. That’s why the former A6 had both 30FSI(2.5 NA V6) and 40 TFSI (2.0 Turbo L4. This also explains why different models with exact same engine have different designations sometimes. But yea, VW is using a torque related designation right now.

 

[amoschen7]

Yes, I was about to mention the new Audi system but agree it's so ridiculous and absurd that I preferred not to. You expressed it much better than I could've.

You can refer to my latest post. The Audi TFSI uses an acceleration speed related calculation to determine the number. But still, extremely strange and misleading.

 

[spwolf]

That's good know. My biggest complaint with the RAV4 hybrid is that it handles like crap. You feel every bit of that 4000lbs curb weight and high center of gravity when you make a turn or even some slight side to side motion to avoid something on the road. It's not confidence-inspiring. I am really curious to see what the UX ends up weighing in with the hybrid system, as that will have a big impact on how it drives.

there is already a hybrid in C-HR... sure this will be heavier but it will certainly have more complex suspension setup too.

Toyota's new TNGA is game changing for Toyota. I feel confident saying C-HR has best suspension in the class and that's a big change for Toyota where they used to have a setup thats good for something but rarely good at everything.

 

[spwolf]

Still, power equivalency is way better than 'torque equivalency' system VAG is experimenting with. Audi models now have severely inflated equivalency model numbers e.g. the Q3 30TFSI (actually a 140hp 1.4T) A4 40TFSI (190hp 2.0T) A6 45TFSI (250hp 2.0T) and A8 50TFSI (300hp 3.0SC). These cars don't even really have the torque the model numbers suggest. I call this false advertising since consumers are cheated to believing they are buying something much much better. The less knowledgeable common folks will think they are buying an A4 with a V8 when it is merely a 2.0 I4T. And this is extending to other VAG models as well. At least BMW underrate all their equivalency values. The 330i will smoke the A4 45TFSI any day, and the 340i is very comparable to a real V8.
Yet, a lot of people buy into all these BS because they think some extremely sophisticated German engineering is going on under the hood (for christ sake it's an iron block carried over from the 90s) , but complain Lexus overrate their hybrids.

Audi's system will end up being so ridiculed by the drivers that they will change it in 2-3 years. A4 30TFSI is slower than modern 2.5l NA engine, so it is just crazy that they are labeling it as such. It just no grounds in reality at all.

 

[ssun30]

It is an artificial calculation inversely related to 0-100Km/h acceleration speed. That’s why the former A6 had both 30FSI(2.5 NA V6) and 40 TFSI (2.0 Turbo L4). This also explains why different models with exact same engine have different designations sometimes. But yea, VW is using a torque related designation right now.

I'm not convinced. If Audi does use 'acceleration equivalency' (see? it's getting worse and worse) here, then why not choose a scaling system that accurately represent the performance? This whole system just arbitrarily chooses a reference point to inflate the equivalency number and cheat consumers. There's just nothing right about it.

OK we are going off the thread here. Enough for now.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

Imagine:

LS 350ht L F Sport

Hybrid + turbo, long wheelbase, "sporty". It's not *that* hard, whereas you often need a cheat sheet to decode recent BMW model numbers.

 

[Benito]

I can't wait to see when Lexus finally has a turbocharged hybrid powertrain.

 

[cherrrhc]

I might have missed a comment but has anybody picked up on the shortened tailgate with the license plate set below? Doesn't this make for a raised boot floor level and reduced access? Or is there some advantage I've not noticed.

 

[spwolf]

I might have missed a comment but has anybody picked up on the shortened tailgate with the license plate set below? Doesn't this make for a raised boot floor level and reduced access? Or is there some advantage I've not noticed.

it is not terribly tall vehicle.

 

[spwolf]

In the case of the UX, Kako and her team aimed for a more hatchback-esque driving feel, benchmarking cars like the Audi A3, Mercedes A-Class and BMW 1-Series. The UX rides on the same platform as the new Toyota CH-R but it uses aluminum throughout for lighter weight and a lower center of gravity. Additionally, the UX has nine-percent more torsional rigidity than the CH-R and over half of its suspension components are bespoke.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-sh...299932/lexus-wants-all-cars-to-drive-like-lc/

 

[Levi]

Something interesting that I like from an esthetic point of view, but not from a function one, is how the hatchdoor is flush with the rear bumber. In a world where looks trumps function, let it then be all looks.


What I am interested in, is the air vents illumination. In a different application, it could be very good for battery wrist watches.

 

[spwolf]

The UX is the first Lexus to use a new platform that also underpins the Toyota CH-R, but Kako says it’s the only thing they have in common. “We began the design in 2015, and it was always separate from the CH-R,” she says. “It was the first C-segment crossover for Lexus.”

Half of the chassis components are unique to the Lexus version, and the suspension is tuned differently. The UX also contains substantially more aluminum – including in its door panels, hood, and fenders – along with composite material in the liftgate. It has a lower centre-of-gravity than the Toyota.

It also has a lower hip point, which is how high the seat is from the floor. “It’s 55 millimetres lower than in the CH-R, and this feels sportier,” Kako says.

http://driving.ca/lexus/auto-shows/...s-more-luxury-and-tech-into-a-smaller-package

 

[ssun30]

Any thoughts on the pricing structure of the UX in the U.S.? The UX200 has an obvious weakness in the engine/transmission department, so it needs to be convincing in terms of value. With Lexus' commitment to not price any vehicle below $30k, the UX200 needs really good standard equipment to have a fair chance of competing. Even with a luxury package or F-Sport package the price should not go above $33k. The UX250h doesn't have much room either, since the NX300 FWD starts at $36k (arguably the best value for the segment). To me a UX250h with E-4 AWD needs to start no higher than $36k since that's where the XC40 (standard AWD) starts.

There's no doubt the UX250h will be a money printer in EU. But in the U.S. the UX line-up seems deliberately undermined to protect the NX.

 

[spwolf]

Any thoughts on the pricing structure of the UX in the U.S.? The UX200 has an obvious weakness in the engine/transmission department, so it needs to be convincing in terms of value. With Lexus' commitment to not price any vehicle below $30k, the UX200 needs really good standard equipment to have a fair chance of competing. Even with a luxury package or F-Sport package the price should not go above $33k. The UX250h doesn't have much room either, since the NX300 FWD starts at $36k (arguably the best value for the segment). To me a UX250h with E-4 AWD needs to start no higher than $36k since that's where the XC40 (standard AWD) starts.

There's no doubt the UX250h will be a money printer in EU. But in the U.S. the UX line-up seems deliberately undermined to protect the NX.

I think question is not where it will start but where will it end... I assume it will start $33k or $34k for 2.0l and $2k more for hybrid, which will have awd as standard in the US it seems. Then go up to $40k... and it will miss some features in order to fit that price, Lexus likes artificially limiting options so cars dont compete.

"Loaded" XC40 is $45k in the US, so by your definition of pricing it should be $5k cheaper because loaded NX costs $46k.

Rather than comparing it to Volvo, that is a small player in the US, I think they will base the pricing on X1 and GLA, which start between $33k and $34k.. so that seems about right, it will have more equipment at those prices, which isnt hard.

 

[ssun30]

I think question is not where it will start but where will it end... I assume it will start $33k or $34k for 2.0l and $2k more for hybrid, which will have awd as standard in the US it seems. Then go up to $40k... and it will miss some features in order to fit that price, Lexus likes artificially limiting options so cars dont compete.

"Loaded" XC40 is $45k in the US, so by your definition of pricing it should be $5k cheaper because loaded NX costs $46k.

Rather than comparing it to Volvo, that is a small player in the US, I think they will base the pricing on X1 and GLA, which start between $33k and $34k.. so that seems about right, it will have more equipment at those prices, which isnt hard.

That's what I'm saying. The basic trim UX200 needs at least 'one free package' to make up for the engine deficit compared to its competitors. The Q3 in particular has a nice array of standard equipment (at $34k) so the UX200 needs to offer more at $33k. The UX250h can be priced at the same level as the GLA250/X1 28i/Q3 40TFSI.

I used the XC40 as a benchmark for the 250h since it is the cheapest subcompact to offer 2.0 turbo+AWD+decent standard equipment, so the 250h should not be more expensive than it.

IMO the UX should play the value game since it will discourage people from buying low grade NX. NX buyers are then more likely to buy a loaded NX thus improving the overall profitability.

 

[spwolf]

That's what I'm saying. The basic trim UX200 needs at least 'one free package' to make up for the engine deficit compared to its competitors. The Q3 in particular has a nice array of standard equipment (at $34k) so the UX200 needs to offer more at $33k. The UX250h can be priced at the same level as the GLA250/X1 28i/Q3 40TFSI.

I used the XC40 as a benchmark for the 250h since it is the cheapest subcompact to offer 2.0 turbo+AWD+decent standard equipment, so the 250h should not be more expensive than it.

IMO the UX should play the value game since it will discourage people from buying low grade NX. NX buyers are then more likely to buy a loaded NX thus improving the overall profitability.

I dont think Lexus has to be more affordable or better deal than Volvo in the USA, although none of these cars are good deal when NX is around.

They will likely position it vs X2, as stylish not just standard competitor otherwise nothing really makes sense at the pricing... considering how CT200h was priced 32k, even $33k seems too low.

I would not be surprised if at these pricing, for whatever reason it might be (volume, manufacturing, etc), it might be better for them to sell NX, hence lack of 250 option for NX and hybrid being positioned as only AWD option. Also with that comes loss of available equipment like ML.

So they likely might be trying to not compete with NX.

Since we are talking about relatively low possible volume, something like 20k per year, I dont think that pricing is all that important.

 

[spwolf]

p.s. Just checked Q3, nice base spec for sure. But I cant believe that they dont have auto crash even as option. Thats where UX will do good against it, since advanced level of auto crash, radar cruise and more are available in base spec.

For all the PR their new system (not yet available) get in A8 for being L3 capable (at very specific set of circumstances and speed), most of VW cars have either poor or optional or not even available auto crash.

 

[telithos]

I dont think Lexus has to be more affordable or better deal than Volvo in the USA, although none of these cars are good deal when NX is around.

They will likely position it vs X2, as stylish not just standard competitor otherwise nothing really makes sense at the pricing... considering how CT200h was priced 32k, even $33k seems too low.

I would not be surprised if at these pricing, for whatever reason it might be (volume, manufacturing, etc), it might be better for them to sell NX, hence lack of 250 option for NX and hybrid being positioned as only AWD option. Also with that comes loss of available equipment like ML.

So they likely might be trying to not compete with NX.

Since we are talking about relatively low possible volume, something like 20k per year, I dont think that pricing is all that important.

In the U.S., the NX300h is only $2300 or so more over the price of the base NX300 without AWD (36k vs. 38.3k). Not a wonder Lexus isn't even offering the non AWD version of the UX250H. Also, you can't get an F-Sport package on the NX hybrid from what I can see, but you will be able to on the UX250H. I do think that they will certainly price it lower than the NX. I don't think they have a choice here, especially in the U.S., where people tend to equate smaller with less expensive.

Honestly, I felt the CT200h was overpriced for what it was. I test drove it at one point and never once felt it was worth the price tag on the car (neither did the Lexus dealership near me, as they usually had huge discounts on it). It basically was a Scion chassis with a slightly more powerful prius powertrain and Lexus..ish appointments. The car itself was very loud on the inside, the powertrain struggled to move the car up anything resembling an incline, and the inside was rather uninspired. It felt way too much like a Prius with a Lexus badge. Only plus was that it did handle fairly well.

It's pretty easy to push something like the GLA over 40k to get some of the things that a Lexus comes standard with. I have to pay extra to get keyless entry in the year 2018? Seriously? I don't think Lexus will have a difficult time making the UX feel worth the money compared to competitors. The only issue I see is the disparity in powertrains, so they'll need to take that into account when they price it. Many people who haven't driven a Lexus/Toyota hybrid may be turned off by the perceived lack of power, even though I can confirm that the RAV4 hybrid system feels like it's more powerful than it is on paper, especially when you're just driving around in a city.

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

Some additional bits of information from Douglas Bolduc of Automotive News Europe:

Lexus expects Europe to be the top sales market for the UX...

UX sales in Europe start in October, roughly two months before the U.S. UX deliveries in will begin in Russia and other eastern European markets by year-end while customers in western and central European markets will start getting the car in the first quarter of 2019, a Lexus Europe spokesman said...

Lexus also enhanced the UX's handling by making special adjustments to its exterior. The SUV's so-called Aero Stabilizing Blade Lights in the rear incorporate fins that are designed that helps prevent airflow from wrapping around the back of the vehicle. This helps keep the rear of the car stable when turning and while driving in crosswinds, Lexus said.

http://europe.autonews.com/article/.../lexus-expects-europe-to-be-top-market-for-ux

 

[telithos]

Makes sense. I think the size of it will be a turn off for some in the U.S. market. That's probably what will push many to the NX. With all this mention of aerodynamics, I'm interested to see how the EPA rating turns out for the UX.