internalaudit

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Do you have any info for the IZOA/C-HR? I've been looking for it but I haven't found anything...

That's also the problem, 3 years from now should be a 2022 lauch as MY2023, is Toyota reckoning it's going to pay EU fines regarding Lexus fleet emissions? And I'm not seeing how they will ramp up sales for BEV's and FCEV's to amount to 10% of total sales in 2025 (as they have stated 1 million by 2025), with only 2 years of proper sales...



I think Tesla's chemistry is outside this JV.... I think I read something in this regard...

But 300 miles is 480km, you're being a bit more ambitious than me, but would be amazing since (at least here in Portugal) our charging network is starting to pick up.... With only 50kW "fast chargers" but we're getting a nice coverage in the next 2/3 years.
Read the marketwatch link. Even as of today, Panasonic can sell the batteries to whoever it wants. The enclosure and thermal management system are Tesla's, the battery chemistry is Panasonic's.

I'm not being ambitious (I just have time to wait the BEV evolution out), my wife drives 200 km round trip once a week so I have to factor that in when shopping for a BEV. As of now, only the Bolt, Leaf and Tesla M3 can probably cover that during the colder winter months but I'd hazard to guess that my wife will not want to find a charging station to and from work and so I'm left with the LR AWD TM3. Men are more practical (I have been refueling all three vehicles because of a 10% discount, neither my wife or daughter care about) usually and there's only one of that gender/sex my household lol

Bolt has no AWD, no ACC, no heated steering wheel, some say seats are not too comfortable
Leaf has no AWD and no TMS so that's dead in the water
TM3 well you know, reliability hasn't been proven. Even the earlier S'es are just coming off their eight-year battery and drive unit warranties.

If Toyota does come up with a Lexus AWD BEV that either has 1) 350 mile range (matter of when and not how because of SSB's) or 2) electric torque vectoring, I'd be happy to forego one requirement for the other. Heck, even the Lexus UX appointments for the base model already ticks majority of my requirement except I want a BEV since we already have a 16 RAV4H.

Worst case is wait five or six years and pick up a Taycan for a song lol. That will not meet the range requirement but it will meet the YOLO requirement as well as torque vectoring haha.

Matt Farah test drove the GSF and with the torque vectoring differential, he commented that it felt like driving an oversized Miata. Torque Vectoring is really the key to making these 4,000 lbs. beasts feel nimble and agile.
 

Will1991

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Tesla's Model 3 should be quite reliable, the problem for me is build quality... Somehow closing the front door seems worse than closing it on my 1999 Avensis with more than 250.000km... Or even my sisters 2010 Auris HSD! This can sound a bit stupid, but was this the biggest thing who put me off... Closely followed by car/seating ergonomics, it feels a bit off... Sometimes I even think it's only for me since almost no one talks about this (YouTube channels/Car journalists)... I don't know how but Tesla's gets a lot of luck, even with simple things like rain sensing wipers, as far as I know it simply does not work but Tesla got a lot of praise for developing a new "neural network for rain sensing"... It does sound cool but c'mon, just do it properly, even a 10~15.000€ Yaris have a proper rain sensor! Or the sheer amount of paint defects, it's just not for me.

EDIT: This being said, I do think what they're doing regarding BEV's is simply amazing and I do admire what they achieved in so little time.
 

internalaudit

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There have been reports of drive units conking at 3k miles and the Dual Motor doesn't seem to offer redundancy as per some comments on TMC (talk about deceptive marketing, if true).


Look up "motor" in the TM3 subforum using the search function. Now that we know the battery is made by Panasonic, no wonder they're holding up well over time. It's another Japanese company that could be relentless in the pursuit of excellence/perfection.

I think Tesla pushed TMC not to create a separate forum on issues/problems surrounding the TM3. If it was that reliable, why wouldn't TMC create a subforum for issues to make it easy for outsiders or people on the sideline to look at how reliable the TM3 are? The Model S does have that subforum but those are sold in lower quantities and is no longer Tesla's bread and butter.


Don't forget this (sorry in advance Ian for posting an insideevs article) issue with MCU's:
 
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JC1

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My predictions will be the UX, next gen NX and Rav4 will be the 3 models coming out first. Gradually we'll see the ES have a plug-in along with the Camry at their mid-cycle refresh, followed by the RX in 5-8 years.

I don't see the GX or LX getting a plug in.....although it would be nice. I think everyone would rather see Lexus just re-design the GX and LX first.
 

internalaudit

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I'm actually surprised Toyota is releasing Toyota BEVs (more mass market) rather than starting off with entirely Lexus BEVs outside Japan/China. Maybe they can really source the batteries in volume.

I have lots of time to wait this out but my daughter and I would very much prefer an IS AWD BEV but my wife would likely be leaning towards a NX BEV.

The UX seems already a given but utility isn't there if it's as cramp as the Corolla hatchback. I'm not tall nor am I long-legged but sitting behind myself, there's but two inches of knee room but then again not all Lexus UX buyers have teen-aged children. :(
 

Ian Schmidt

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I'm actually surprised Toyota is releasing Toyota BEVs (more mass market) rather than starting off with entirely Lexus BEVs outside Japan/China. Maybe they can really source the batteries in volume.
TMC likes to test out new tech in their cheaper cars first. The new Yaris is the latest example of that, with a more advanced Toyota Safety System and LION batteries for the PHEV version.
 

internalaudit

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I don't mind a Yaris BEV with solid state battery, TSS 3.0, and in-wheel motors; even if it's $10k more than the current Yaris PHEV. :)

I will resist being a brand snob for sure because that package is compelling enough even if it doesn't come with LED head or tail lights lol.
 

mediumhot

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It will be the C-HR EV, Izoa EV, and UXEV. So basically it's one EV not three.
Pretty much one car three models.

Lexus showing Yaris like BEV design study is just weird, I would get it if they were to reskin Yaris and sell it but wouldn't be better to show off your first ever BEV with something more relevant to the premium badge? Audi did it with Taycan reskin.

EDIT: and we were both wrong :) First Toyota EV is kei car available in winter 2020
 
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CRSKTN

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FYI they just posted this:


Toyota to Show Production-Ready Ultra-Compact BEV at 2019 Tokyo Motor Show "FUTURE EXPO"
  • Aiming for release in Japan in late 2020, as part of new Toyota business model focused on the popularization of BEVs
  • Other Toyota BEVs including Walking Area BEV and Toyota i-ROAD will be available for test drives at the 2019 Tokyo Motor Show "OPEN ROAD"
Between this and the Toyota LQ, that's 2 of the 3 right? So I guess it's just the Lexus BEV left?

EDIT: Yay, more real vehicles to announce. Gonna leave this here just because it's kind of neat seeing some of the design concepts.
 
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ssun30

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FYI they just posted this:


Toyota to Show Production-Ready Ultra-Compact BEV at 2019 Tokyo Motor Show "FUTURE EXPO"
  • Aiming for release in Japan in late 2020, as part of new Toyota business model focused on the popularization of BEVs
  • Other Toyota BEVs including Walking Area BEV and Toyota i-ROAD will be available for test drives at the 2019 Tokyo Motor Show "OPEN ROAD"
Between this and the Toyota LQ, that's 2 of the 3 right? So I guess it's just the Lexus BEV left?
I don't think so. This is a mobility vehicle for seniors (a NEV). If this counts then the I-ROAD should count as well.

I think those three EVs are fully road legal passenger vehicles.
 

internalaudit

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Either that or Tesla just proved that TM3's/BEVs can sell like hot cakes but because battery technology will keep evolving, Toyota didn't want to release a lot of BEVs when batteries were too expensive and less we forget that updates on Toyota's solid state battery progress is going be announced during the Tokyo Summer Games.

Toyota/Lexus reliable on BEVs -- definitely count me in.

Don't care about the charging network for 99% of our travel lol.
 
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From leader in electrification to trailer. Pathetic Toyota, what a questionable strategy to just stand by the sideline. It’s not like your strap for cash to dare exploring. I do believe that after all the critics are done scratching the name, Tesla and Musk have a big set of B...S and is not stoping on the sideline to « wait and see ». For a startup they are eating a lot of established’s brand lunch. Wake the hell up.
 

ssun30

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More info dug up by the chinese media, thanks to GAC-Toyota's environmental impact report for construction of its Plant 4 for electric vehicles. I will check tommorow for the original text to confirm the credibility of this image:
3522
This document shows GAC-Toyota will be introducing three electric vehicles:

>>The C-HR EV with 44k annual production capacity. This We already know, But what come next are extremely interesting:
>>First is an electric MPV measuring 4885(L)x1930(W)x1730(H) with 2850mm wheelbase. Annual capacity is 44k. Could this be the next-gen Previa?
>>Second is a full-size electric SUV measuring 5172(L)x1993(W)x1738(H) with 3060mm wheelbase. What on earth is this thing? It is too large to be an electric Highlander and too short to be an electric Sequoia or Land Cruiser. What's even more confusing is an annual production of 110k units. Do they think they can really sell that many full-size SUVs?

Could this and the MPV be what we see in this picture? I used to think E-TNGA will come no earlier than 2024, but it seems at least for ChDM we could see E-TNGA in as early as 2022.
3523
Plant 4 will be constructed in two phases. Phase I will complete next year, producing the C-HR EV. Phase II will complete in 2022, introducing the other two products.

BTW I laugh every time when the western media keep portraying Toyota as lagging behind in the BEV game, when they already have their equivalent of TM3 TODAY. Meet the GAC-Toyota iA5.
3524

58.8 kWh pack with cells supplied by CATL. 510km NEDC range or roughly 210mi EPA range if we use the common 2/3 conversion factor. Motor is 135kW and 300N.m. Charging to 80% takes 34 minutes. Price starts at ~$24k after subsidy, or roughly $28k without. The battery weighs 350kg while the rest of the electric powertrain weighs 87kg. Kerb weight is 1625kg. Very close to TM3 in size and weight. They do cut quite a bit of corners like not including TSS 2.0 and using a torsion beam rear suspension to reduce cost.

Now to be clear, this is a badge-engineered GAC Aion S which is designed indigenously (the design is very similar to the new Corolla though). But this serves as a good place to start, like sorting out the supply chain.

The recent narrative by the western auto media is "Toyota finally decides to make BEVs" as if the company could make this kind of decisions overnight. The C-HR EV program was green-lit in 2017 and in the same year information around the mysterious '711B' got released. These new MPV and SUV programs were green-lit in 2018. Sure, I understand the western auto media want to be proud of their own nation's brand, but it is their own problem that they don't do their homework and use imagination instead of publically-available information.
 
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shizhi

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More info dug up by the chinese media, thanks to GAC-Toyota's environmental impact report for construction of its Plant 4 for electric vehicles. I will check tommorow for the original text to confirm the credibility of this image:
View attachment 3522
This document shows GAC-Toyota will be introducing three electric vehicles:

>>The C-HR EV with 44k annual production capacity. This We already know, But what come next are extremely interesting:
>>First is an electric MPV measuring 4885(L)x1930(W)x1730(H) with 2850mm wheelbase. Annual capacity is 44k. Could this be the next-gen Previa?
>>Second is a full-size electric SUV measuring 5172(L)x1993(W)x1738(H) with 3060mm wheelbase. What on earth is this thing? It is too large to be an electric Highlander and too short to be an electric Sequoia or Land Cruiser. What's even more confusing is an annual production of 110k units. Do they think they can really sell that many full-size SUVs?

Could this and the MPV be what we see in this picture? I used to think E-TNGA will come no earlier than 2024, but it seems at least for ChDM we could see E-TNGA in as early as 2022.
View attachment 3523
Plant 4 will be constructed in two phases. Phase I will complete next year, producing the C-HR EV. Phase II will complete in 2022, introducing the other two products.

BTW I laugh every time when the western media keep portraying Toyota as lagging behind in the BEV game, when they already have their equivalent of TM3 TODAY. Meet the GAC-Toyota iA5.
View attachment 3524

58.8 kWh pack with cells supplied by CATL. 510km NEDC range or roughly 210mi EPA range if we use the common 2/3 conversion factor. Motor is 135kW and 300N.m. Charging to 80% takes 34 minutes. Price starts at ~$24k after subsidy, or roughly $28k without. The battery weighs 350kg while the rest of the electric powertrain weighs 87kg. Kerb weight is 1625kg. Very close to TM3 in size and weight. They do cut quite a bit of corners like not including TSS 2.0 and using a torsion beam rear suspension to reduce cost.

Now to be clear, this is a badge-engineered GAC Aion S which is designed indigenously (the design is very similar to the new Corolla though). But this serves as a good place to start, like sorting out the supply chain.

The recent narrative by the western auto media is "Toyota finally decides to make BEVs" as if the company could make this kind of decisions overnight. The C-HR EV program was green-lit in 2017 and in the same year information around the mysterious '711B' got released. These new MPV and SUV programs were green-lit in 2018. Sure, I understand the western auto media want to be proud of their own nation's brand, but it is their own problem that they don't do their homework and use imagination instead of publically-available information.

A6005980-6467-4BEB-9591-0D3B5D08046D.jpeg
 
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The recent narrative by the western auto media is "Toyota finally decides to make BEVs" as if the company could make this kind of decisions overnight. The C-HR EV program was green-lit in 2017 and in the same year information around the mysterious '711B' got released. These new MPV and SUV programs were green-lit in 2018. Sure, I understand the western auto media want to be proud of their own nation's brand, but it is their own problem that they don't do their homework and use imagination instead of publically-available information.
I think the problem is that these cars AREN'T available at the local dealer here, so its not newsworthy to CNN here in the States, or even Motor Trend. How many of us here in the States are able to read Chinese media? Even as an ABC, do I care what's sold at the local dealer level in Guangzhou or Shenzhen?
 

internalaudit

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I totally get your points. Toyota is unlike Tesla though and doesn't like to market fluff and vaporware so it probably would rather keep mum as much as possible.

Part of what's sold in China does portend what is to come to the global markets. According to a few articles a few months ago, 10 BEVs by 2025 with six being global vehicles.

Sounds like the first three are destined for the Chinese market but the CHR might come to North America.

Anyway, I'm not in a rush especially if solid state batteries are really coming sooner (by 2025 for VW) than later (2030 target by Toyota). It will be less flammable and will likely offer better range at lower costs (if mass produced).

Not sure if this is fake news but air aluminum fuel cells are being tested for commercial use. I have a feeling solid state batteries will be coming much sooner than expected. It's going to be the great enabler, in that automotive industry just like how our much faster mobile data nowadays allowed for new online services to sprout.
 

CRSKTN

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Company type: Private Limited Company
Company number: 04708826
Company status: Dissolved
country of origin: United Kingdom
incorporation date: 2003.03.24
dissolution date: 2007.02.06
last member list: 2005.03.24
has UK establishment: No
has appointments: Yes
in liquidation: No
Nature of Business:
  • 5274 - Repair not elsewhere classified


The whole thing smells fishy, I can't find anything about the company (closest to was the above) or this dude that makes it seem legit.
 

internalaudit

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Even cleantechnica (tesla fan club) published it lol. --> FAKE NEWS lol based one one of the comments below the articlet.

"I have guests from the UK staying with me at the moment and they suggest the Daily Mail may not enjoy the highest reputation for journalistic excellence."
— Indeed! hahaha
 
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CRSKTN

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Even cleantechnica (tesla fan club) published it lol. --> FAKE NEWS lol based one one of the comments below the articlet.

"I have guests from the UK staying with me at the moment and they suggest the Daily Mail may not enjoy the highest reputation for journalistic excellence."
— Indeed! hahaha
Yeah, I think Daily Mail is like National Enquirer levels of stupid.
 
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