Lexus Shakes Up F SPORT Brand

[Adrian]

Predictable acceleration

I for one have never driven a forced induced V8, is the feel just the same or better than a N/A V8 in terms of predicable acceleration and refinement?

 

[ssun30]

There's nothing that stops them from tuning V35 to over 600PS. After all they get 300PS from a 1.6 Inline-3. That's what they are able to do when there's no restrictions and Akio personally protecting the project. They can have that engine ready today.

You see the problem is not the lack of V8 but the lack of a chassis to put in ANY 500PS+ powertrain. GA-L/N? Too heavy. New N? Too old. GA-K? Forget about that. The only thing I can think of is actually GA-F.

Blame the severe lack of F products on the complete failure of GA-L. They can build a body on frame LS and it will still be lighter than what we have now.

 

[NXracer]

NVH
Smoothness
Drivability
Linear driving experience
Predictable acceleration

In products that have been directly been effected by the switch from NA V8 to TTV6, would you say those vehicles became sales "duds" in their most popular markets by volume solely due to this engine switch and mentioned negatives?

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

In products that have been directly been effected by the switch from NA V8 to TTV6, would you say those vehicles became sales "duds" in their most popular markets by volume solely due to this engine switch and mentioned negatives?

Not because the V6 is a bad engine, but there isn't the option for a V8 so they could tap in to a way wider market.

Look at Mercedes, BMW, Audi, and Porsche. Don't be like Genesis who will only have a twin-turbo six in the G90 after this generation. They're going to fall into irrelevance.

 

[sl0519]

Not because the V6 is a bad engine, but there isn't the option for a V8 so they could tap in to a way wider market.

Look at Mercedes, BMW, Audi, and Porsche. Don't be like Genesis who will only have a twin-turbo six in the G90 after this generation. They're going to fall into irrelevance.

Completely agree. EVERY luxury automaker is still offering a V8 option in the mid-higher end models. I can never understand why Lexus is so hesitant to make it happen.

 

[Levi]

V8 would be nice for image. But TTV6 is plenty enough. The problem as @ssun30 notes, is not the TTV6, but the cars into which to put that engine. IS 500 is nice, very nice, but let us be honest, it is a bin parts car, based on extended life cycle vehicle. 500h/500h+ could be a "performance" satisfactory car, even with I4, after all that is what new C AMG will get. But there is no such high performance TTI4 Hybrid. The market for performance cars is so small, that those interested in such performance, will chose bigger engines while they are available.

I think Lexus will come up with TNGA-L highly modified or Mazda RWD platform, for IS and RC successors exclusively for their racing program. It will be a one off until anything with an ICE is banned in the "rich" world. It is foolish to expect anything "sport" in the future other than next gen IS. If that is not coming, nothing else will. New RC might replace both the RC and LC, after all, other than perfect looks and perfect interior quality, what performance does the LC offer over the RC?

They can build a body on frame LS and it will still be lighter than what we have now.

 

[NXracer]

Not because the V6 is a bad engine, but there isn't the option for a V8 so they could tap in to a way wider market.

Look at Mercedes, BMW, Audi, and Porsche. Don't be like Genesis who will only have a twin-turbo six in the G90 after this generation. They're going to fall into irrelevance.

Completely agree. EVERY luxury automaker is still offering a V8 option in the mid-higher end models. I can never understand why Lexus is so hesitant to make it happen.

What "wider market" is clamoring for the V8 and in what vehicle segment?

 

[GoHuskers]

Tesla, Lucid, Rivian have NO V8s but they are still plenty faster than those V8s.

 

[LS500-18]

Wow this will be confusing for the general public. With that said, I'm more interested in sporty styling but a comfortable ride. So I'd take a cosmetic F upgrade over a rough ride any day of the week, so I'm on board with this ;-)

 

[LS500-18]

I for one have never driven a forced induced V8, is the feel just the same or better than a N/A V8 in terms of predicable acceleration and refinement?

I used to have an '06 Jaguar XJR with the supercharged V8. The power delivery is much more linear and predictable than the garbage TT V6 I have in my LS500.

Turbos = delayed power and less linearity at lower RPM. Supercharger = smooth increasing power at all RPM.

 

[bananaslug]

unfortunately we are just not going to get German performance or innovation from Lexus. You will get a very high quality and reliable rebadged Toyota that looks pretty. Maybe they will have something big for us when they roll out EV’s but I wouldn’t hold your breath. We can ask for better styled and designed interiors bc they have been pretty sucky as of late.

 

[Gecko]

In products that have been directly been effected by the switch from NA V8 to TTV6, would you say those vehicles became sales "duds" in their most popular markets by volume solely due to this engine switch and mentioned negatives?

Land Cruiser: No
LX: TBD
LS: I think loss of the V8 is half the problem, due mostly to the fact that the LS buyers always expected butter-smooth acceleration and a serene driving experience, and the TTV6 provided neither of those at launch. The other half, for the sake of sales, is the poor packaging of the platform and lack of headroom.

 

[spwolf]

NVH
Smoothness
Drivability
Linear driving experience
Predictable acceleration

i assume drivability will be better with v6tt, and smoothness/linear/predictable are all the same.
As long as they dont mess up the gearing and response, if that happens nothing matters anyway.

This is why hybrid will always be the better choice, always.

 

[sl0519]

Land Cruiser: No
LX: TBD
LS: I think loss of the V8 is half the problem, due mostly to the fact that the LS buyers always expected butter-smooth acceleration and a serene driving experience, and the TTV6 provided neither of those at launch. The other half, for the sake of sales, is the poor packaging of the platform and lack of headroom.

And a more sporty ride pre-facelift also, and this is where I don't quite understand why no one complains the same on the 7 series which has the most sportiest ride and handling in its segment.

 

[Gecko]

i assume drivability will be better with v6tt, and smoothness/linear/predictable are all the same.
As long as they dont mess up the gearing and response, if that happens nothing matters anyway.

Definitely not the case at all. LS 500 is a challenging car to drive at times with the turbo lag and lazy throttle input.

Smoothness from a V8 is unparalleled compared to a V6.

Linear/predictability = power delivery + throttle inputs + turbo lag, sure.

 

[NXracer]

And a more sporty ride pre-facelift also, and this is where I don't quite understand why no one complains the same on the 7 series which has the most sportiest ride and handling in its segment.

There claim to fame for the brand is the Ultimate driving machine.

 

[ssun30]

And a more sporty ride pre-facelift also, and this is where I don't quite understand why no one complains the same on the 7 series which has the most sportiest ride and handling in its segment.

And that's why 7 series never was a challenge to the S-Class. The media doesn't complain and luxury car buyers also don't buy. The fullsize luxury sedan segment was always a two horse race between S and LS. But now 5LS also failed and S-Class truly has a monopoly in the segment just by refining the same formula that works all the time.

 

[LarryT]

unfortunately we are just not going to get German performance or innovation from Lexus. You will get a very high quality and reliable rebadged Toyota that looks pretty. Maybe they will have something big for us when they roll out EV’s but I wouldn’t hold your breath. We can ask for better styled and designed interiors bc they have been pretty sucky as of late.

The jig is up! Sadly, it seems as if Lexus threw in the towel on producing competitive, cutting edge vehicles once Lexus realized they could continue to sell souped-up Toyota's in high numbers as a luxury vehicle with less effort & cost overall.

 

[NXracer]

And that's why 7 series never was a challenge to the S-Class. The media doesn't complain and luxury car buyers also don't buy. The fullsize luxury sedan segment was always a two horse race between S and LS. But now 5LS also failed and S-Class truly has a monopoly in the segment just by refining the same formula that works all the time.

The LS bowed out of that equation since 2009 in the US, so one cant put all the blame on the 5th gen. It is interesting to hear reports of what the 5LS could have been but thats for a different thread.

 

[mikeavelli]

I for one have never driven a forced induced V8, is the feel just the same or better than a N/A V8 in terms of predicable acceleration and refinement?

The Germans and even Cadillac got it figured out. I mean when you are at 500-700hp there’s just tons of power everywhere.