Lexus Planning New Coupe Between RC & LC?

[ssun30]

Quick, somebody get in here and quote a metric that makes Mistubishi the best in the world at something.

Mitsubishi is literally crap and is only good at building cheap shitboxes and not even the best at it.

Try harder next time though 🤣

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

The original version of my Lexus Enthusiast news story on the Mazda/Lexus 2RC collaboration was conceived as a longer one covering both coupes. Krew wisely opted to separate the two, with me sticking to the 2RC and him doing the honors on the so-called "third coupe". Here's how my original version version of the story concluded:

"A Best Car story wouldn’t be complete without veering into the fantastical, the nonsensical and the absurd. And that would be their suggestion of a third Lexus coupe to slot in between RC and LC. Yes, their rendering of what that would look like is quite attractive, but with the coupe market dwindling and even Mercedes-Benz expected to pare down their current large selection of coupes and convertibles, it would make zero sense for Lexus to expend their resources developing a third coupe amidst a crossover/SUV-mad world."

I really like that rendering of how an apocryphal "third coupe" could look, though, particularly the central grille-less nose that is sculpted into a vestigial spindle shape. With the rise of the electric car, we may be seeing a fashion swing away from the current monster Lexus spindle, massive BMW dual kidneys and Audi singleframes in favor of sheet metal noses and twin large "grilles" in the bumper corners. As Hans Greimel recently noted in a recent article for Automotive News:

In the front, Toyota ditches the grille and turns to creative slits to ventilate the electric motor.

Toyota's styling today, called "under priority," uses a big, low grille for a more planted look.

The new face, called the "interlock grille," tries to mesh the upper and lower elements.

The styling focus of the front end will turn from the radiator to the corners.

"You've got to anticipate the next big thing that's going to change the face," (Toyota global design chief Simon) Humphries said.

"A lot of it is going to fall to sensors," he said. "The sensors for autonomous driving are largely based in the corners. So, the corner is going to be the next radiator. What we're trying to do is build emphasis on the corner, build in sensors for the future."

Granted, those comments are geared towards future Toyota (and Lexus?) BEVs, and the look in that Lexus coupe rendering may not work in a real-life coupe powered by an internal combustion engine, but it's interesting how it echoes the Toyota BEV clay concepts recently unveiled and shown below:

 

[Ian Schmidt]

LS is just a totally different car than what people expect when shopping for an LS, for better or worse. It definitely needs a V8, it needs a badass F model to finally give the platform and styling the guts they deserve, and an LWB model would be fine but wouldn't really help the headroom.

Honestly if they'd just make the throttle more responsive and put in a more advanced air suspension (and maybe ditch the run-flats) they'd be able to have their 7-series cake and eat the S-Class too.

 

[Jezza819]

2017 LS460 Wheelbase: STD 116.9 in., LS460L 121.7 in.

2018 LS500 Wheelbase: 123 in.

I don't think you're going to get anything longer than that when the current standard wheelbase is longer than the previous L model's wheelbase.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

I really like that rendering of how an apocryphal "third coupe" could look, though, particularly the central grille-less nose that is sculpted into a vestigial spindle shape. With the rise of the electric car, we may be seeing a fashion swing away from the current monster Lexus spindle, massive BMW dual kidneys and Audi singleframes in favor of sheet metal noses and twin large "grilles" in the bumper corners.

Yes! The first thing I thought when I saw the spindle-less spindle shape was "That's what a BEV Lexus should look like".

 

[Trexus]

Maybe Lexus wants to bring back the SC line and I say yes! Lexus should also expand their coupe lines to include four door coupes.

RC 300/300h/350; coupe/convertible/4 door coupe = compete with 4 Series and A5
SC 400/400h; coupe/convertible/4 door coupe = compete with 6 Series and A7
LC 500/500h; coupe/convertible/4 door coupe = compete with 8 Series and A9

 

[maiaramdan]

@Trexus , to complete your lineup
Lexus needs to kill the ES and replace it with the GS or turn the next ES to be the car based on the FR Mazda instead of the IS and keep the IS pure Lexus
To fully complete the picture
Lexus needs to RWD the next NX and the next RX for God sake the explorer is RWD and it's not even a luxury car

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

@Trexus , to complete your lineup
Lexus needs to kill the ES and replace it with the GS or turn the next ES to be the car based on the FR Mazda instead of the IS and keep the IS pure Lexus
To fully complete the picture
Lexus needs to RWD the next NX and the next RX for God sake the explorer is RWD and it's not even a luxury car

I don't think the next ES should be based off of the Mazda. It should be ALL LEXUS.

 

[maiaramdan]

@F1 Silver Arrows , I know I just assumed if always Lexus wanted the ES to be rebadged it's better the RWD even if it's from Mazda

Honestly I am sad that Toyota which once have a full FR sporty lineup even the small family Corolla not have any FR sedans now except the Century and the Crown, so honestly my guessing if Toyota wants to take the most of Mazda it will be by turning the med Camry and the full Avalon to be based on Mazda new FR chassis

Toyota needs to involve in evolving this new chassis and may just maybe my dream comes true and I found a next generation RWD based Highlander

 

[flexus]

LS is just a totally different car than what people expect when shopping for an LS, for better or worse. It definitely needs a V8, it needs a badass F model to finally give the platform and styling the guts they deserve, and an LWB model would be fine but wouldn't really help the headroom.

I couldn't agree you more. Why the only Lexus sedan that is meant to be driven by chaffeur (of course you can drive it by yourself but I cannot imagine chaffeur driving IS) is not three box design. Similar styling is helping baby brother ES, but why can't GS be the LS' FR three box baby brother? If Lexus is planning to add 4 door coupe, in my opinion, it is just easier to put 4 door coupe label on ES. In fact, there is more FF 4d coupes (CLA, A5, A7, 2series GrandCoupe) than FR (CLS, 4 and 6 series GrandCoupe).
As for V8 they should have from the start offer TTV8. If added in future I cannot imagine that it would be only petrol powertrain. In Europe and Japan emission regulations are already so strict that I4 1.5TSI and Skyactiv-G 2.0 are built to run with only 2 cylinders in steady speeds. All TSI engines are becoming mild hybrids. Lexus simply cannot add any petrol models in its lineup in Europe and it is hard in Japan. In China too shift to NEVs is accelerating. That leaves the US as only mass market for V8 LS vehicle. But states like California are pushing for ZEVs and nobody knows if the federal goverment would also if Mr. Biden or someone else from Democrats gets elected. My solution and wet dream is that LS F would have V8 and be similarly priced as conventional LS. If new the V8 is used in all F models, LC, GX, LX and in some Toyota vehicles it would be profitable.
Shift towards smaller and efficiet engines is inevitable. In Japan consumers shift themselves with the help of goverment, in Europe byrocracy is forcing consumer to do so. It sounds absurd that in 2030 you cannot buy ICE car in EU or retail of petrol and diesel is going to have complete ban in 30s but is certainly going to happen. Boring but wise would be to add BEV/FCEV/PHEV LS500e to line up.

 

[maiaramdan]

Toyota/Lexus, Daihatsu, Hino, Mazda, Subaru, Suzuki and Isuzu won't put a battery operated vehicle until the solid state battery starting to work properly, thanks God they will have it by 2020 on the other hand Honda/Acura won't put a fully electric vehicle based on lithium especially after all that money they paid on fluoride-ion and I still honestly see the FC as the only far future solid proof

 

[flexus]

Toyota/Lexus, Daihatsu, Hino, Mazda, Subaru, Suzuki and Isuzu won't put a battery operated vehicle until the solid state battery starting to work properly, thanks God they will have it by 2020 on the other hand Honda/Acura won't put a fully electric vehicle based on lithium especially after all that money they paid on fluoride-ion and I still honestly see the FC as the only far future solid proof

The money put towards developing V8 will generate more profit if it would be used to make solidstate battery complete month earlier or FC 3000€ cheaper.

 

[Trexus]

@Trexus , to complete your lineup
Lexus needs to kill the ES and replace it with the GS or turn the next ES to be the car based on the FR Mazda instead of the IS and keep the IS pure Lexus
To fully complete the picture
Lexus needs to RWD the next NX and the next RX for God sake the Explorer is RWD and it's not even a luxury car

Lexus could do a few things with the ES in my opinion/suggestion:

Option 1:
Kill/discontinue the ES completely. Make the IS line a 3 Series fighter, bring the IS 300h to North America and bring back the IS F. Make the GS what it's suppose to be a 5 Series fighter (GS F comparable to M5). Put a V8 in the LS.

Option 2:
Keep the ES. Spend zero dollars on marketing since it sells itself. Focus the IS line to be a 3 Series, A4, C Class fighter, bring the IS 300h to North America and bring back the IS F. Make the GS what it's suppose to be as a 5 Series, A6, E Class fighter (GS F comparable to M5). Put a V8 in the LS.

Option 3:
Transfer the ES to the Toyota side similar to how when Scion was discontinued they brought the Scion models to the Toyota side such as the Toyota iA, Toyota iM, Toyota 86 (FKA Scion FRS), etc. Call it the Toyota ES 350, Toyota ES 300h. Then Lexus can focus on the IS, GS and LS.

Lexus would never kill/discontinue the ES since it's the highest selling Lexus sedan. Lexus would most likely chose option 2 however Lexus needs to really focus on the IS and GS and improve on the LS a bit. I'll post on the CUV's and SUV's another time as I gotta go...

 

[maiaramdan]

Honestly if I am from TMC top guys my choice will be Option_1 then Option_3 then Option_2 but as you just said by yourself for current TMC top Guys there maybe Option_4 by killing the GS completely then maybe Option_2

 

[Trexus]

As for the RX and NX, keep them the way they are since the RX is not only the highest selling CUV/SUV, it's the highest selling Lexus vehicle of all time.

Lexus needs to bring the LQ as soon as possible to compete with the Q8, X6 and GLE coupe. The LQ will be a RWD flagship performance CUV that will be a hit. Lexus could add additional models at lower price points such as a mid-level GQ RWD performance CUV and an entry level RQ RWD performance CUV. Then Lexus can leave the RX and NX alone.

UX 200/250h
NX 300/300h
RX 350/450h

GX 460
LX 570

LQ 500/500h
GQ 460
RQ 350

 

[maiaramdan]

The Q suffix will only be with the cars that already had X as their BOF aka L & G

The L will be 7 seater high lux. to go for Rolls / Bentley / GLS / X7 / Escalade

The G will be very much the concept a high profile high performance Q8 / Cayenne / X6 / GLE coupe competitor

 

[Ian Schmidt]

There is zero chance of the ES going away in any manner. The dealerships would revolt, for one thing.

 

[Trexus]

There is zero chance of the ES going away in any manner. The dealerships would revolt, for one thing.

Of course the ES wouldn't ever go away. It's one of Lexus bread and butter (ES & RX). Lexus doesn't really need to spend any marketing on the ES cause it pretty much sells itself. Lexus could even expand the ES line with a coupe based on the Solara. Sure the ES coupe would sell more than the RC and LC combined a few times over! Lexus will keep the ES as I stated in option 2 above but Lexus needs to work on the next generation IS, GS and LS and add more new models (LQ 500/500h) and variants (IS 300h, IS F, LC F, LQ F, etc).

Definitely curious what this new particular coupe that's suppose to be slated in between the RC and LC? I look forward and can't wait...

 

[flexus]

I noticed that you few times talked adding of IS300h but it is still available outside US

 

[Lexucator]

Mitsubishi is literally crap and is only good at building cheap shitboxes and not even the best at it.

Try harder next time though 🤣

Actually, my wife and I at one time owned a fully loaded 2008 Outlander, followed by a fully loaded Outlander GT. By far and away the most reliable cars we’ve ever owned... and we purchase mostly Japanese products. This includes two previous Subarus, a Honda, and a Nissan, all of which were purchased brand new. In addition to our 2019 UX 250h, we also have a 2019 Subaru Forester Touring. We shall see if these two CUVs will be as reliable. We can only hope!

Rob