Is this the new LFA? GR GT3 Concept Spied On Public Roads

[ssun30]

What's even more confusing is BestCar just reported the Lexus Electrified Sport BEV debut is 2026 instead of 2028.

 

[bogglo]

It's a good theory moving Crown into Lexus market and making Lexus EV only. In reality it might be the biggest mistake they ever make if this was their plan.

It makes more sense to flip it. Crown should be the EV only brand. I said this because outside of Japan and the car enthusiast world no one really know about Crown (also the Mirai and the Crown sport sedan are twins already easy to market as a green car especially since they getting rid of their hydrogen ambition for now)

Also, Lexus is an established brand . ES,IS,RC,LS,and LC owners are all waiting to update their car. I don't think the percentage of people waiting for the next Crown vehicle compares.

It's a smarter approach to keep Lexus where it is and release redesigned versions of what we are accustomed to. Crown is a new product that is just being released to new markets outside of Japan. Why not use that same opportunity to market it as the EV only product line of TMC. As for the century that's an easy placement.

A Lexus customer who is accustomed to the dealer experience of Lexus might not like the Idea of going to Toyota dealership to update their car. And if the plan is to start a Crown dealership then they can use that money to give us better products.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

From the 2021 announcement? Everything in the back row was "incremental generation" with some ICE, HEV, and PHEV, but I feel like it was clear the future is electric for Lexus.

Just my opinion on setting my enthusiasm aside and trying to look at so much of what has happened over the last 5 years or so. I guess it could all be different, but it feels like we've seen Toyota marching in this direction for a while. Plus rumors of Century coming to America, more than a few rumors of "ZC" replacing the IS, etc. Maybe I'm wrong 🤷‍♂️

Definitely.

 

[ssun30]

The only way to keep Lexus relevant was to make it completely different: electric. However, what that means 10-15 years from now when most everything in the Toyota, Crown, and Century lineups are also electric? No idea. Lexus has been starved for resources and product while Toyota, Crown, Century, and GR have all been completely renewed and updated. I don't even think tea leaves are necessary - the writing is on the wall: The old Lexus, the one that brought all of us here in the first place, is dead.

Since they expect global BEV adoption rate to peak at 30% before 2050, I don't think the rest of TMC will be all EV.

IMO going full BEV is actually Lexus returning to its roots instead of abandoning its legacy. The LS400 launched with the world famous wine glass commercial. The V8 engine is not the core brand identity of Lexus or a mandatory component of LS. It is just a necessary tool to achieve the best NVH - something that has been missing in recent years after they switched to TNGA.

Anyone who has driven the RZ knows it is the best-driving and best-riding Lexus product on the market today by a wide margin. The inherently high rigidity and low center of mass of the chassis combined with a zero-NVH electric powertrain just cannot be matched by any electrified product with an ICE.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Since they expect global BEV adoption rate to peak at 30% before 2050, I don't think the rest of TMC will be all EV.

IMO going full BEV is actually Lexus returning to its roots instead of abandoning its legacy. The LS400 launched with the world famous wine glass commercial. The V8 engine is not the core brand identity of Lexus or a mandatory component of LS. It is just a necessary tool to achieve the best NVH - something that has been missing in recent years after they switched to TNGA.

Anyone who has driven the RZ knows it is the best-driving and best-riding Lexus product on the market today by a wide margin. The inherently high rigidity and low center of mass of the chassis combined with a zero-NVH electric powertrain just cannot be matched by any electrified product with an ICE.

Better than the LC, LS, and IS?

 

[Gecko]

Since they expect global BEV adoption rate to peak at 30% before 2050, I don't think the rest of TMC will be all EV.

IMO going full BEV is actually Lexus returning to its roots instead of abandoning its legacy. The LS400 launched with the world famous wine glass commercial. The V8 engine is not the core brand identity of Lexus or a mandatory component of LS. It is just a necessary tool to achieve the best NVH - something that has been missing in recent years after they switched to TNGA.

Anyone who has driven the RZ knows it is the best-driving and best-riding Lexus product on the market today by a wide margin. The inherently high rigidity and low center of mass of the chassis combined with a zero-NVH electric powertrain just cannot be matched by any electrified product with an ICE.

I agree with your point about Toyota ICE being here for much longer, though I think they will try to transition their first-world priority markets to BEV faster, leaving more legacy ICE products in third-world countries who have less developed electric charging networks, tougher roads, etc.

I see your point about BEV being a change that is in keeping with the Lexus tradition of smoothness, and I agree. At the same time, starving out parts of the current lineup and ditching all of the legacy product names will send many current owners elsewhere before those new products arrive. Lexus looks wholly unserious and uncommitted to anything other than NX, RX, and ES -- and that hurts brand perception and ultimately, sales. It's giving big Acura, Infiniti, Cadillac, and Lincoln energy.

Lexus has been in the constant state of reinventing (or remarketing?) themselves and making promises they don't keep for the last 15 years... buyers are simply looking for consistency and improvement on a reasonable scale, and Lexus hasn't been able to deliver that for anything other than platform engineered GA-K products.

For all of these reasons, I'm skeptical about yet another "revolution" for Lexus.

 

[Kelvin2020]

Look at Century and Crown, and GR products vs. F Products as points of comparison.

Lexus is being repositioned into an electric sub brand project more than a global luxury brand on par with Mercedes, BMW, et al.

I think there are ways this can work for Lexus, but it's going to be very different from what we have known previously. The future is Toyota first with Lexus as an afterthought -- we're already living in that reality, but it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

My opinion is that as Japan has consolidated control and taken decision making power away from the regions, they're rolling out a more JDM-esque strategy across the globe where Crown is similar to Lexus and Century is above Lexus... so then, what really is the point of Lexus? It no longer fits into the traditional lineup of:
- Toyota: Mainstream
- Crown: Premium
- Century: Super Luxury
- GR: Motorsports and racing

The only way to keep Lexus relevant was to make it completely different: electric. However, what that means 10-15 years from now when most everything in the Toyota, Crown, and Century lineups are also electric? No idea. Lexus has been starved for resources and product while Toyota, Crown, Century, and GR have all been completely renewed and updated. I don't even think tea leaves are necessary - the writing is on the wall: The old Lexus, the one that brought all of us here in the first place, is dead.

To the point at hand, when the GR GT3 Concept was released, it didn't have a brand on the hood but it was released by "Toyota Gazoo Racing." There was a photo from a dealer meeting of it wearing a Lexus badge, and that was discussed at one point, but keep in mind the only car Lexus has ever publicly referenced as a follow up to the LFA is the Electrified Sport Concept -- never the GR GT3 Concept. The GR GT3 is a GR car. Whatever Lexus "LFA" comes next will be electric -- Lexus has explicitly stated that.

When they transition to being an EV only brand, they are destined not to have the same sales as they do now. So, what is their strategy? Are they positioning Lexus as an ultra-luxury brand? If electric vehicle sales continue to decline in the future, will they still insist on this? It will only push Lexus toward a dead end.

 

[ssun30]

When they transition to being an EV only brand, they are destined not to have the same sales as they do now. So, what is their strategy? Are they positioning Lexus as an ultra-luxury brand? If electric vehicle sales continue to decline in the future, will they still insist on this? It will only push Lexus toward a dead end.

EV sales didn't decline. Their growth slowed down.

 

[CRSKTN]

Toyoda I imagine always resented that their luxury division was US focused and under a new name because toyota "wasnt good enough".

Every risky project they didnt want under toyota went to lexus, and if successful everything from design elements to components gets lifted for toyota and the lexus offerings get hamstrung and corporatized.

The first GS racecar hybrid tech, the LS luxury offering, the RX luxury crossover, the LFA and ISF motorsport positioning, LC500 design elements ala the sienna/camry etc.

Lexus is a sacrifical lamb with a target on its back that arrogant and ego driven people put there our of spite and resentment. Dinosaurs.

 

[Kelvin2020]

Toyoda I imagine always resented that their luxury division was US focused and under a new name because toyota "wasnt good enough".

Every risky project they didnt want under toyota went to lexus, and if successful everything from design elements to components gets lifted for toyota and the lexus offerings get hamstrung and corporatized.

The first GS racecar hybrid tech, the LS luxury offering, the RX luxury crossover, the LFA and ISF motorsport positioning, LC500 design elements ala the sienna/camry etc.

Lexus is a sacrifical lamb with a target on its back that arrogant and ego driven people put there our of spite and resentment. Dinosaurs.

It’s Toyota that ruined Lexus.

 

[Falcon]

Ultra luxury: Century
Luxury: Lexus
Premium and Motorsport: GR, Land Cruiser, Crown
Mainstream: Toyota

That’s how I see each brand positioned.

 

[Will1991]

The thing is, we all say we're looking for V8's, for more coupe, for more F cars, for more BEV's.... But...

The best coupe that Lexus has ever made - the LC - never sold all that well

For the GS, it was an amazing sedan - specially the last generation - it drove well, it was gorgeous from day one... But the market never went crazy on them....
They even made two hybrids sports sedan - GS450h - fast as hell, decent fuel economy.

Then they made the IS F - a product that never sold in large numbers

The RC F, another amazing coupe, everyone went nuts because of the weight - despite being an awesome car and a car that drove amazingly well - only enthusiast bought them.

They also developed a new kind of sports hybrid transmission to get a sportier feeling and more performance - multistage -how many do you know?

For the BEV's - Lexus made a crap first product (UX300e) that thankfully nobody wanted... But the RZ is such an amazing car (it drives just like a sports sedan)!
I was getting one, got a new job at a Mercedes dealership that offers a company car and didn't went further - but the market isn't getting what's the RZ spirit really is... It get's all tangled on the lower range... It feels just like a sports sedan to drive!
200 miles on a model S a few years ago was amazing, without any charging grid - now it seems everyone does more than 200 miles a day.

Even the all mighty LFA - it didn't have a easy start... Only "recently" they went up on value because the first few years it wasn't a very sought after product...

All brands react to consumers, and we can't blame Lexus for not trying... But sales simply aren't there...

 

[Ian Schmidt]

For the BEV's - Lexus made a crap first product (UX300e) that thankfully nobody wanted... But the RZ is such an amazing car (it drives just like a sports sedan)!

It actually makes sense that it took an EV to marry wine-glasses-on-the-hood Lexus NVH with TNGA's increased sportiness. But I wish they'd hurry up with the solid state batteries.

 

[ssun30]

The real question is: how do they plan to sell a Toyota badge supercar?

This is not a limited model which sells all allocations long before it reaches market. It's a standard catalogue model that will be able for purchase at a dealer.

Nobody walks into a Toyota dealer to spend $200k. Are they going to have dedicated GR sections that separate customers from common folks who just need a commuting tool?

 

[Flagship1]

The real question is: how do they plan to sell a Toyota badge supercar?

This is not a limited model which sells all allocations long before it reaches market. It's a standard catalogue model that will be able for purchase at a dealer.

Nobody walks into a Toyota dealer to spend $200k. Are they going to have dedicated GR sections that separate customers from common folks who just need a commuting tool?

Platinum tier customers, who already have reserved their allocation and have a direct channel to corporate. These wont be sold next to your average overland or corolla buyer.

 

[carguy420]

Skip to 5:48 to see the GR GT3


And yes, its engine is pretty quiet.

 

[Gor134]

Looks and sounds good.

 

[Gor134]

There's two prototypes apparently testing at the 'Ring.

 

[Demetrius]

So what happens to Lexus Racing in the coming years? Does it continue with an RC-LC replacement for competition? I know zero about requirements for GT3, so I don't know if Lexus will have anything to offer or if that responsibility shifts to Toyota?

 

[Levi]

Nobody walks into a Toyota dealer to spend $200k.

That is the price of only 4 average Toyota's. It is cheap. There is no more Ferrari or Maserati Coupe for 200K.