krew

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Just seems to me that there is a clear gap in the lineup. I can't see how you sell a multimillion dollar yacht, when the likelihood that the person who can afford to buy it probably would drive up to it in a Lexus is lower than the chances they show up in a Rolls or something like that.
This, to me, is the biggest disconnect. I understand why Lexus wants to build yachts and jets, but their current lineup doesn't offer the type of support these products require.

A more reasonable approach would have been strengthening the mid/high range of the lineup with a new GS/LQ/LX, de-prioritizing the low end products like UX/ES, and releasing an ultra-luxury car/SUV to compete with Rolls Royce & Bentley.

Instead, the only Lexus vehicles doing well are derivatives of a similar Toyota product (C-HR/Avalon/Highlander). Not to deride these products, but they're unlikely to attract consumers that buy multi-million dollar boats or private jets.

I just don't get it. Are they relying entirely on people shopping Lexus out of habit? I don't think anyone here is expecting them to shove out brand new exciting models every 3 years, but the complete lack of anything to look forward to is kind of insane.
👀

Yes a nice private jet will draw prestige to the brand. But if there are nothing else offered that is worthy of the brand, then what is the point? May as well get a jet from an actual jet maker...right?
Really though, won't the potential buyers of the yacht/jet look at Lexus as a budget brand?
 
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mediumhot

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Really though, won't the potential buyers of the yacht/jet look at Lexus as a budget brand?
Close to 20yrs ago we had a proposal for Aston Martin in Miami to get into luxury goods such as fragrance, watches, accessories and hotels in order to try to survive. In other words proposal was to lease out the brand 's heritage and logo to successful enterprises in dedicated luxury markets to make it a lifestyle brand. Of course they never even took the proposal for serious they were so into making their cars more of this and more of that so Porsche Design did that first instead. Now that they've seen what Porsche did they went into the venture of selling a lifestyle as well. I'm glad they actually did, better later than never.

Lexus today is in exact same situation Aston Martin was two decades ago with irrelevant product line. Not necessarily a bad product line but they have products they cannot sell to high roller clientele such as LC and LS. I'm not surprised they are going into Yachts and VLJ
cause they obviously want to build the panache, it's legit move and I love it. But bottom line is that ES350 for MY2026 will still have 20 years old engine by then. That's reality for near future.
 

zeusus

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Good for Toyota (Lexus)!

Why not, I ask? I applaud this news, if it is true.

Honda already has a corporate jet division (HondaJet). Toyota also has experience in aerospace.

Toyota currently owns 10% of Mitsubishi Aircraft Corporation, builder of the Mitsubishi SpaceJet, a 70 to 90 seat regional jet aircraft. MAC recently bought the CRJ range of regional jets from Bombardier Aerospace.

Even if MAC eventually stops selling the CRJ in favour of its own SpaceJet, it now has the technology developed by Bombardier. The CRJs were originally developed from the Challenger business jet; and there is also at least one CRJ model that was developed into a business jet. Toyota now has access to that technology.

With these products flying, it would not be difficult to develop the SpaceJet into a high-end corporate business jet and label it as a Lexus. It could even help to sell more SpaceJets -- "If it is good enough for Lexus, is it not good enough for your airline?".
Great informative post, thanks for sharing.

Despite some disagreement on the demand for a jet like this, I can see the potential business case. Regional range business jets are in high demand in the US and will be in China as well (as long as their economy does not collapse). Considering they're going to sell a top range LM (luxury mobility/mover) in China bringing you to your Lexus yacht, why not then bring you to your Lexus Jet as well?

We still have no idea what is happening, maybe Akio just meant Lexus taxi drones, but it is still a fun thought experiment.

People in this thread trying to turn this thread into another "dump on Lexus' entire lineup" thread can possibly try that in one of the many hundred others?








 

ssun30

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Speaking of selling products in a vacuum, Toyota is actually making a real Lunar Cruiser. Mitsubishi is too proud to have Lexus badges on their rockets, but sponsoring some JAXA programs to have Lexus-branded spacecraft or lander won't take a lot of money I suppose?

Despite some disagreement on the demand for a jet like this, I can see the potential business case. Regional range business jets are in high demand in the US and will be in China as well (as long as their economy does not collapse). Considering they're going to sell a top range LM (luxury mobility/mover) in China bringing you to your Lexus yacht, why not then bring you to your Lexus Jet as well?
First thing of all, the airspace in China is extremely restricted. Only 1% of the sky is available for civilian flight, everything else is military. That's why almost every rich person who bought a private jet sold theirs after realizing it's a poor investment. And yes we do expect our economy to collapse so even fewer people will buy a private jet.

Short-to-medium range very large jets already exist; they are called charter flights. For any company needing transport for large groups of employees and payload over modest range charter flights is the most cost-effective option. Corporations tend to only keep dedicated mid-size jets and intercontinental large jets for maximum flexibility.
 
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Axel

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Cargo ships are capital expenditures in the pursuit of some economic endeavour. Positioning yachts and private jets alongside luxury cars is a much different thing than the giant industrial conglomerate arm of companies like Samsung or Hyundai.

Just seems to me that there is a clear gap in the lineup. I can't see how you sell a multimillion dollar yacht, when the likelihood that the person who can afford to buy it probably would drive up to it in a Lexus is lower than the chances they show up in a Rolls or something like that.

If i have to go to other companies to try and find vehicles "on my level" if i'm a yacht or jet buyer, and you're positioning yourself as some luxury automaker as well, I can't see how that's a win for TMC and Lexus.

This just makes me think that the top-end Lexus needs to be derived from something like the Century, and they need a high-end luxury-focused SUV (LX doesn't really compete in that way) as well (where is the LF1?).

Just seems unfocused.
We hear about how the media has to get behind another LFA before it's considered.
We hear about how the LC convertible took priority over the LCF, as though it's impossible for a company as big as TMC to do both.
We haven't heard anything exciting/meaningful about the next gen IS.
The latest GX and LX models are behind the times in terms of features, even compared to the RX, which is insane to think about.
The ES has stepped on the LS' toes this generation, weakening the value proposition, while having its own shortcomings in Lexus wheelhouse areas like audio quality.
We haven't heard anything exciting/meaningful about the future of the GS as the current model is left to age on lots and on the street as other automakers are trying out new things and shaking up their lineups.
The company is continuing to focus on going down range (understandably), but they need to offset the UXs and NXs of the world with real luxury products to keep the image.

This may come off a bit harsh, but that's only because I have high expectations for the brand given my history and experience with Lexus.
I really believe in the company, but they need to step it up. We live in a world of 24 hour news cycles and instant gratification. You cannot go this long without meaningful information and updates for your models. How long are we supposed to stay in the dark about our options?

I am probably going to buy another car in the next year or two, and i've got a full F model now, but i'm having a hard time being motivated to wait another 6 months here or there to see what Lexus offers vs just shopping the competition.

I just don't get it. Are they relying entirely on people shopping Lexus out of habit? I don't think anyone here is expecting them to shove out brand new exciting models every 3 years, but the complete lack of anything to look forward to is kind of insane.

Do we have any company/industry insiders here? Without going into material nonpublic information, what's the deal? Is it just a cultural thing? Do they view it internally as a risk to the brand? Are Lexus employees/engineers/designers/etc. feeling like they like the direction/pace/market position of the brand?
I totally agree with you 100%. Toyota thinks about nothing but profit first and this mindset don't work well with the luxury premium brand. If I was Lexus I would axe the the UX, RX, NX, even the IS build these cars as Toyota this would allow Lexus to stay premium. There is no need to build cheap lexus's since they got Toyota to take care of that. This rebadging is causing a lot of confusion between Toyota and Lexus, Toyota can't be its best because there is a Lexus version of it. This company just need to stop being greedy and desparate. Lexus brand only need these couple few cars LFA, LC, RC, and one full house SUV. The rest build them as Toyota, these four cars the company must be prepared to loose money building them because you not actually building a luxury product if you not prepared to a loss. Lexus has been turned to a brand of generating profit wherelse it should be a brand where some profit is spend on
 

internalaudit

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Even the European makers are making cheap offerings (FWD vehicles) at premium-like pricing. I doubt removing half of the best selling vehicles in the line up will help at all. It's almost turning known marketing strategies over their head.

I don't think those are rebadged Toyota's especially the IS because there is no RWD sedan platform across the North American line-up

These cheaper models get people into Lexus and once they are hooked, could upgrade to the more expensive models.

Why alienate prospective customers like me who had bought a Toyota and want something more upscale? It would be a recipe for disaster unless they have Ferrari or Lambo's cachet.
 

Ian Schmidt

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Even the European makers are making cheap offerings (FWD vehicles) at premium-like pricing. I doubt removing half of the best selling vehicles in the line up will help at all. It's almost turning known marketing strategies over their head.
Exactly. Mercedes and BMW both have gone lower-end in the US recently to boost volume, joining Lexus and Audi. That's not the problem with Lexus. The volume stuff is well executed for the most part. We just need to see more above that.
 

Lexus Cohen

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Boats, planes, hover boards, movie collaborations, design studios... everything the brand is doing is a distraction from the fact that their car lineup is the least compelling and competitive it's ever been in Lexus' 30 year history.

After ~22 years as a passionate enthusiast, I stepped away from Lexus ~6 months ago, but it's still shocking and disheartening to see the absolute lack of direction at a brand level.

I'd say this brand is headed nowhere fast, but it seems they are headed to the skies and seas - while completely neglecting the legacy that brought them here in the first place. Lexus is quickly heading towards irrelevance.
I agree
 

krew

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Considering they're going to sell a top range LM (luxury mobility/mover) in China bringing you to your Lexus yacht, why not then bring you to your Lexus Jet as well?

We still have no idea what is happening, maybe Akio just meant Lexus taxi drones, but it is still a fun thought experiment.

People in this thread trying to turn this thread into another "dump on Lexus' entire lineup" thread can possibly try that in one of the many hundred others?
I will admit to forgetting about the LM, though to be fair, it's a China-only vehicle and unlikely to be offered in other markets any time soon.

My issue with this jet rumor, and the yacht to some degree, is that it's putting the cart before the horse. We all know the LQ will arrive some day, as will the LC F and EVs and a new IS. But right now, it feels like Lexus would prefer to do anything else except release new vehicles with four wheels. No matter how interesting this expansion is as a brand building exercise, there needs to be a balance.

I'm a huge proponent of Lexus as a mobility company, and would normally LOVE this jet rumor. But let's be real -- the IS & ES have been using the same engine since 2006, the death of the GS has been unnecessarily long and ugly, the LS was in development for a decade and still seems half-baked, the LQ already feels late to the party, and the best Lexus is a flagship coupe that nobody buys. But instead of any positive momentum on the automotive side of things, we get a thinly veiled suggestion that Lexus is going to build a plane and that the first EV concept is going to be some kind of weird city car.

As this thread illustrates, the frustration is boiling over. And while I think a few new vehicle announcements will turn the tide, this is not an opinion shared by everyone.
 

Joaquin Ruhi

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Close to 20yrs ago we had a proposal for Aston Martin in Miami to get into luxury goods such as fragrance, watches, accessories and hotels in order to try to survive. In other words proposal was to lease out the brand 's heritage and logo to successful enterprises in dedicated luxury markets to make it a lifestyle brand.
Actually, that proposal did turn into a concrete, still-under-construction Aston Martin Residences high-rise condominium project.
 

internalaudit

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Joaquin, do we already have a discussion thread on why previous loyal Lexus fans (two or more car ownership) quit the Lexus/Toyota brand and move on to others?

I think it's going to be a good thread to subscribe to, with me leaning towards BEVs and hoping Toyota/Lexus does bring a few models to Canada.
 

Joaquin Ruhi

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Joaquin, do we already have a discussion thread on why previous loyal Lexus fans (two or more car ownership) quit the Lexus/Toyota brand and move on to others?

I think it's going to be a good thread to subscribe to, with me leaning towards BEVs and hoping Toyota/Lexus does bring a few models to Canada.
Not to my knowledge, but it's definitely a worthwhile topic for discussion.
 
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What strikes me about Lexus management seems to be their arrogance towards the public. Specifically, making it unappealing to special order a car by the time it takes (90 to 120 days). To me, this is an excessive amount of time considering the ES factory is in the USA. My experience in the past with American cars is typically 4 to 6 weeks. To me, it appears that Lexus is placing its own manufacturing priorities above those of the customers. Lexus holds itself out to be a high-calibre car company which to me means squeezing in customer orders first and not last in production cycles. Even the humble Corvette makes it possible to special order in a reasonable time.

Instead, Lexus seems to give priority to loading its cars with lots of unwanted options so the customer will "settle" for something close but more expensive already on the lot. For example, the only option I really want on a new 2020 F-Sport is a $500 Heads Up Display. Yet that display actually costs me $2,320 by mandating an unwanted Navigation system costing $1,820. And if one looks instead at the Base ES, the $500 Heads Up Display actually costs me $4,555 by a cascading number of options and packages requiring other options. This upsetting business strategy leaves a foul taste in my mouth.

And don't get me started about the foot dragging to correct the ES base radio system- another Lexus management fail.
 

CIF

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Boats, planes, hover boards, movie collaborations, design studios... everything the brand is doing is a distraction from the fact that their car lineup is the least compelling and competitive it's ever been in Lexus' 30 year history.

After ~22 years as a passionate enthusiast, I stepped away from Lexus ~6 months ago, but it's still shocking and disheartening to see the absolute lack of direction at a brand level.

I'd say this brand is headed nowhere fast, but it seems they are headed to the skies and seas - while completely neglecting the legacy that brought them here in the first place. Lexus is quickly heading towards irrelevance.
My thoughts exactly. I've lost quite a bit of passion for the Lexus brand lately. I have much more passion and interest in the Toyota brand, as that seems to be where most of ToMoCo's focus is.
 
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