Hyundai to (Finally) Start an Upmarket/Luxury Division

[mmcartalk]

Really? I thought the Equus connection would be pretty obvious for many.

I might have noticed it, but didn't really stick out until you mentioned it.


Anyhow, I think we, as car enthusiasts, sometimes get caught up too much in what looks like what....or who is copying who. There have been so many different vehicle-designs, over the years and decades, and so many production and concept cars, that no matter what you design or build, the chances are that you are going to be copying somebody, somewhere.

 

[IS-SV]

What would you have named it, then, if it were up to you?

As far as the "religious" description goes, the Mercury, Merkur, and Saturn divisions of Ford and GM were all named after not only planets but pagan deities. Buick, at one time, produced a rebadged Chevy Nova called the Apollo.....another pagan diety. The Dodge Aries sedan/coupe was an astrological name. The Ford Taurus, an enormously popular sedan for years, was another astrological name. Of course, all of these except the Taurus have been discontinued.

There's so many flops on this list mostly unrelated to topic here, I couldn't help but LOL. (Even the Ford Taurus is experiencing a slow steady decline and no longer popular in 2015, not that Hyundai is dwelling on history of those crappy cars.)

I think the article pointed out key area of concern:
" According to two of the knowledgeable individuals, however, some of Hyundai's U.S.-based sales executives are concerned the company may be rushing into launching a stand-alone premium brand. They think headquarters may not have "thoroughly thought through the move," said one of the individuals. "Some are not very happy. "

I'm looking forward to seeing the future "premium" product offerings, because that's what's needed to succeed even as a solid tier 2/3 competitor.

 

[mmcartalk]

There's so many flops on this list mostly unrelated to topic here,

I don't agree that listing other religious names for vehicles, in the specific context that I did in response to Krew's comment, is topic-unrelated, though it's true that most of the list is no longer in production.

(Even the Ford Taurus is experiencing a slow steady decline and no longer popular in 2015, )

As CIF pointed out some time ago, the Fusion, in the last several years, has generally taken the place in the market that the Taurus once held. That's because the Taurus name was transferred up to the full-sized sedan-range (replacing the Five Hundred) instead of remaining where it was.

 

[IS-SV]

I. That's because the Taurus name was transferred up to the full-sized sedan-range (replacing the Five Hundred) instead of remaining where it was.
(And, with this part, maybe we ARE getting a little off-topic LOL)

The flops keep on coming (pathetic sales of the Five Hundred are noteworthy and unrelated for sure), lol.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Hyundai rolls this out, because it has possibilities only with good execution.

 

[mmcartalk]

The flops keep on coming (pathetic sales of the Five Hundred are noteworthy and unrelated for sure), lol.

No question the Five Hundred was a sales flop. But that wasn't so much the car's fault as it was the fact that customers just couldn't get used to the Five Hundred name that went back decades to the 1960s. Then, when they had renamed it the Taurus (bringing back another name that went back to the mid-1980s), the Fusion had debuted and ended up sealing much of its thunder. The Fusion, like it or not, ended up being the new Taurus.

Oh....and one thing that didn't help Five Hundred/Montego sales was the the unreliable CVT that went on the AWD versions....as opposed to the conventional torque-converter on the FWD models. I was critical of that at the time, and, in fact, the CVTs did turn out to be troublesome.

 

[IS-SV]

No question the Five Hundred was a sales flop. But that wasn't so much the car's fault as it was the fact that customers just couldn't get used to the Five Hundred name that went back decades to the 1960s. Then, when they had renamed it the Taurus (bringing back another name that went back to the mid-1980s), the Fusion had debuted and ended up sealing much of its thunder. The Fusion, like it or not, ended up being the new Taurus.

Oh....and one thing that didn't help Five Hundred/Montego sales was the the unreliable CVT that went on the AWD versions....as opposed to the conventional torque-converter on the FWD models. I was critical of that at the time, and, in fact, the CVTs did turn out to be troublesome.

Not that any of the ancient failures in automotive history (or success of the Fusion) has anything to do with Hyundai upmarket division topic here. Please do us a small favor, no more digging in deeper...

 

[CIF]

Yeah IS-SV raises a good point. The other "religious" models and brands you brought up mmcartalk have virtually all been discontinued. The remaining model that hasn't, the Taurus, is struggling. Not a good historical sign at all for 'Genesis' as a brand name.

 

[mmcartalk]

Yeah IS-SV raises a good point. The other "religious" models and brands you brought up mmcartalk have virtually all been discontinued. The remaining model that hasn't, the Taurus, is struggling. Not a good historical sign at all for 'Genesis' as a brand name.

Understood, I know they have been discontinued (I noted that in my reply). I just don't think that what Hyundai decides to call their upmarket division is going to make that much difference in actual sales. Most buyers (or what IMO would be sensible buyers, anyway) would go by substance, not image, though, yes, I do recognize that there are a fair number who do not.

 

[IS-SV]

Understood, I know they have been discontinued (I noted that in my reply). I just don't think that what Hyundai decides to call their upmarket division is going to make that much difference in actual sales. Most buyers (or what IMO would be sensible buyers, anyway) would go by substance, not image, though, yes, I do recognize that there are a fair number who do not.

The points are simply (instead of beating around the bush):

1. They are not good examples in post #20 of name(s) because Hyundai is striving for success not failure.

2. There's no excuse for bad naming even if expected sales impact is minimal, the marketing departments in Hyundai are well-funded and can easily figure that out sooner than later. Agreed, real premium product matters most, as so far that's still to be unveiled/TBD.

We've spent so much time discussing (unrelated to topic) automotive trivia here, when the actual dealerships closest to the action have brought up this key area of concern:

" According to two of the knowledgeable individuals, however, some of Hyundai's U.S.-based sales executives are concerned the company may be rushing into launching a stand-alone premium brand. They think headquarters may not have "thoroughly thought through the move," said one of the individuals. "Some are not very happy. "

It would be nice to have some of our actual auto industry pros continue to chime in on this concern brought up by dealerships and how it should be addressed.

 

[CIF]

Yeah, the point is, it doesn't help matters for Hyundai using this name. It's too early to talk about any sales impact. The name in some consumer's minds is also associated with both the Genesis coupe and the Genesis sedan. So it's very possible the Genesis brand will end up a confusing brand message to some consumers, especially if they find it a big leap to reconcile the idea of this Genesis 'luxury' brand using the same brand name as the cheap, entry-level coupe.

 

[mmcartalk]

Yeah, the point is, it doesn't help matters for Hyundai using this name. It's too early to talk about any sales impact. The name in some consumer's minds is also associated with both the Genesis coupe and the Genesis sedan. So it's very possible the Genesis brand will end up a confusing brand message to some consumers, especially if they find it a big leap to reconcile the idea of this Genesis 'luxury' brand using the same brand name as the cheap, entry-level coupe.

Good point about both the Genesis coupe and sedan. The Genesis sedan is pretty much an upmarket product...I don't think many people would (or could) make the same statement about the coupe.

 

[mmcartalk]

Here are some Asian-spec shots (and some detailed interior photos) from the Korean web-site....though it's difficult to tell if some were photoshopped.

A video is included if you click on the web site.

http://www.genesismotors.com/kr/models/EQ900.html

 

[mmcartalk]

The way I see it, what automaker doesn't exaggerate a little here and there?

 

[mmcartalk]

It's getting most of the attention now, but with the Equus still in the picture as (technically) the flagship. However, after driving both, IMO the new 5.0L Genesis actually drives more like a flagship...and it has the handling that the Equus lacks.

IMO (though I respect yours), whether an interior looks like somebody else's or not is of little relevance, as along as it works. There have been so many different vehicle and interior designs over the years that it is getting very difficult (if not impossible) to design something that doesn't look like something else from either the present or the past.

BTW, you're probably more adept at spotting photoshopping than I am. Do you think those shots were photoshopped? .

 

[CIF]

I will just say, that it actually looks worse in official pics than the spy shots. The exterior looks ungainly, with some awkward elements. The rear accommodations look decent enough for the class, but no doubt that is optional, and likely a fully optioned G90 will cost about the same as an LS and approach the base price of an A8.

 

[IS-SV]

Unfortunately looks like yesterday's Infiniti sedan with a generic Hyundai grill slapped on the front.

 

[CIF]

I keep going back to these pictures and honestly have no idea how anyone there thinks this is going to shake up the segment. Seems it will again just be a price based car and not a car attempting to be better. Engines are carryover as well it seems.

Which is why I have stated over and over naming yourself a luxury brand does not equate success. We already have quite a few struggling brands.

Excellent points, this just seems like a "status quo" effort from Hyundai, nothing special.

 

[mmcartalk]

That's why, IMO, in terms of luxury/non-luxury, the judgement of the vehicle itself is more important than that of the brand/logo on it. I have seen a number of so-called "entry-level luxury" vehicles (Acura ILX, Audi A3, Cadillac ATS, Lincoln MKZ, BMW 1-series, Mercedes CLA, among others), that, for whatever reason (stiff ride, lack of noise isolation, cramped interior, poor fit/finish, lack of power, etc.....) I did not think were worthy of a true luxury moniker. Even on my own Verano (I'm not biased here LOL), which is otherwise quite well-built and matches some more expensive luxury cars on ride-quietness and front-seat comfort, its Ecotec engine noise that increases with revs and, in cold weather when the rubber in the 45-series 18" tires are hard and thumping with a firm ride over bumps, disqualify it from what I'd consider a true luxury car. It would be much closer to a true small luxury car with a V6 and 55 or 60-series tires rather then 45s.

On the other hand, I've seen some cars like the 2Gen Genesis, K900, Equus, Cadenza, 2014+Impala, recent Malibus, and, to an extent, even the present-generation Ford Fusion, that, IMO, delivered far more in the luxury-department than their modest logos/badges would indicate.....and the Genesis and Equus may finally be formally getting that now in their marketing.

 

[mikeavelli]

Super LWB...

 

[Bulldog 1]

Late breaking story in Business Week, Hyundai president reports gloomy outlook for 2016. How solid are their Genesis plans now?