Discussion: Lexus, Plug-in Hybrids, EVs, and Fuel Cells

[krew]

Williamson is getting marching orders to knock down talk of EVs in favor of hydrogen from Toyota execs. They have made their decision. It's the wrong decision, at least in the short to mid-term, but maybe 10 years from not Hydrogen will be the better long-term play? Maybe Toyota will put hydrogen stations around the country like Tesla has done with Superchargers? At least Toyota.Lexus now has a working successful blueprint to use.....
BD

A couple things:

• Paul Williamsen is speaking purely about the technical aspects of battery charging. Guarantee this has nothing to do with "knock down talk of EVs in favor of hydrogen". It's just plain fact.
• I have to think the infrastructure will be the biggest selling point for hydrogen, at least in the long term. All of those gas companies are going to invest heavily in hydrogen to safeguard their businesses against the eventual decline of gasoline engines. Anyone can charge their car at home, but fuel cells are a specialized business.

 

[spwolf]

A couple things:

• Paul Williamsen is speaking purely about the technical aspects of battery charging. Guarantee this has nothing to do with "knock down talk of EVs in favor of hydrogen". It's just plain fact.
• I have to think the infrastructure will be the biggest selling point for hydrogen, at least in the long term. All of those gas companies are going to invest heavily in hydrogen to safeguard their businesses against the eventual decline of gasoline engines. Anyone can charge their car at home, but fuel cells are a specialized business.

btw, oil companies are biggest investors in alternative energy - solar, wind, ev charging.

they dont look at ev vs hydrogen as people on forums do, they just care about making profit.

With EV vs cars, there is even more profit opportunities, since someone has to provide all that recharging infrastructure... with charging process taking 60m or more, it only makes sense for gas stations to be good places for this.

In many (most?) countries in the world, most people live in apartment builds where charging at home is simply not possible.

 

[ssun30]

btw, oil companies are biggest investors in alternative energy - solar, wind, ev charging.

they dont look at ev vs hydrogen as people on forums do, they just care about making profit.

With EV vs cars, there is even more profit opportunities, since someone has to provide all that recharging infrastructure... with charging process taking 60m or more, it only makes sense for gas stations to be good places for this.

In many (most?) countries in the world, most people live in apartment builds where charging at home is simply not possible.

Exactly. The biggest pushers for either type of EV will be big oil companies, the most powerful corporations in the world, not some random silicon valley startup. It will be extremely costly for grid companies to set up charging poles at every home or parking spot. Oil companies, on the other hand, can utilize the resources much more efficiently by providing centralized services, whether it's fast charging for BEVs or refueling for FCEVs. So yes, BEVs have to overcome fast charging issues if they want wide-spread adoption.

 

[spwolf]

Exactly. The biggest pushers for either type of EV will be big oil companies, the most powerful corporations in the world, not some random silicon valley startup. It will be extremely costly for grid companies to set up charging poles at every home or parking spot. Oil companies, on the other hand, can utilize the resources much more efficiently by providing centralized services, whether it's fast charging for BEVs or refueling for FCEVs. So yes, BEVs have to overcome fast charging issues if they want wide-spread adoption.

yep, btw - I just read this morning, that if you charge Model 3 at superchargers, it becomes more expensive than Prius hybrid when you fill it with $3 gas (which is Cali prices, not rest of the USA). This was on CleanTechnica, EV site, which brushed it off as not important because apparently other similar cars get 25 mpg (they are not counting hybrids). On the other hand, we had reporters report how LS500h got them 42 MPG on highway at normal speeds.

I think thats hilarious when were are told that it is going to be 3x to 5x cheaper than fuel.

And this is why EVs wont take over the world despite hype from blogs, twitter and facebook. This is why when government drops huge incentives to buy EVs, people stop buying them. And this is why Prius Prime, which is by EV affectionado's points, a lousy plugin, is the best selling plugin in the world.