Chris Harris Slams Lexus F Performance Brand

corradoMR2

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@LexFather and @Mohammed Taha.

I feel you both bring valid points to the table. One see's the glass half full, the other half empty. :)
Here's my take in relation to your views.

What sums up the argument: "Lexus' F brand is less than 10 years old"

1. It's young, we need to give Lexus a little more time to catch up - TRUE
On the flipside
2. It's had decades of Toyota performance/racing experience from the 2000 GT, to the MR2, Supra up to F1 participation.
 

mikeavelli

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@LexFather and @Mohammed Taha.

I feel you both bring valid points to the table. One see's the glass half full, the other half empty. :)
Here's my take in relation to your views.

What sums up the argument: "Lexus' F brand is less than 10 years old"

1. It's young, we need to give Lexus a little more time to catch up - TRUE
On the flipside
2. It's had decades of Toyota performance/racing experience from the 2000 GT, to the MR2, Supra up to F1 participation.

I just feel Lexus never gets a really fair shake. We hear how Lexus is "late" to the CUV party with the NX. We barely hear how the RX created this entire segment. Lexus got bashed for having 3 SUVs in the 2000s. Now its cool that the Germans offer 4-5 each. Lexus got bashed for being boring and not sporty. Lexus gets bashed for being not boring and sporty. lol
 

Lexus Cohen

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@LexFather and @Mohammed Taha.

I feel you both bring valid points to the table. One see's the glass half full, the other half empty. :)
Here's my take in relation to your views.

What sums up the argument: "Lexus' F brand is less than 10 years old"

1. It's young, we need to give Lexus a little more time to catch up - TRUE
On the flipside
2. It's had decades of Toyota performance/racing experience from the 2000 GT, to the MR2, Supra up to F1 participation.

I just feel Lexus never gets a really fair shake. We hear how Lexus is "late" to the CUV party with the NX. We barely hear how the RX created this entire segment. Lexus got bashed for having 3 SUVs in the 2000s. Now its cool that the Germans offer 4-5 each. Lexus got bashed for being boring and not sporty. Lexus gets bashed for being not boring and sporty. lol
They will also be bashed for not having a RX F, the new GS F being under powered, and no additional engine options for the NX. Guess what though? Their negativity will not push this Lexus loyalist away!
 

corradoMR2

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I just feel Lexus never gets a really fair shake. We hear how Lexus is "late" to the CUV party with the NX. We barely hear how the RX created this entire segment. Lexus got bashed for having 3 SUVs in the 2000s. Now its cool that the Germans offer 4-5 each. Lexus got bashed for being boring and not sporty. Lexus gets bashed for being not boring and sporty. lol


Agree, and you know why they bash on these moot points? Because on most every other criteria, Lexus is superior so they have to find something to bash on! :D
 
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I just feel Lexus never gets a really fair shake. We hear how Lexus is "late" to the CUV party with the NX. We barely hear how the RX created this entire segment. Lexus got bashed for having 3 SUVs in the 2000s. Now its cool that the Germans offer 4-5 each. Lexus got bashed for being boring and not sporty. Lexus gets bashed for being not boring and sporty. lol
You think it is because ze Germans feel threatened?
 

Dreski

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Yawns...

Doesn't matter what you did or what you say you are going to do.

It’s a tough fact to swallow for most but the truth is, what you did yesterday really doesn’t matter in the automotive business. If you can't grasp that. Just think about Sports.

This is a competition to sell and profit. There are no more excuses.

Either you have it or you don't.

Lexus have the capacity and the resources coupled with talented employees.

No more apologizing for them. They can do it, but lack the tenacity to stick-it to their competition.

Enough finger pointing at the Germans. You want to quiet the crowd? Then drown them with products that the masses will flock to. Until then, what he said, Harris. That is the sentiment and perception the world carries. It can only be broken by having consistent Killers on the squad.

"Its only 0.93 slower than the X-Y-Z model. So why are people dissing it?!" That's a loser mentality. How about shut them up by saying this F kills it spec-by-spec & every time time trial.

I respect all of your opinions but its like reading sports fanatic trying to defend their teams. All that matters is the ring, it doesn't matter how brilliant you've been in the past decade. You need a Michael Jordan, that's how you win. At the moment, its all just a bunch of KD's and LBJ's...

Fun read though. lol

P.S Harrismonkey, still has my respect and follow. He stated an opinion that's soaked heavily in the minds of many outside these borders. Y'all gotta live outside to understand where he coming from.
 

Axel

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Yawns...

Doesn't matter what you did or what you say you are going to do.

It’s a tough fact to swallow for most but the truth is, what you did yesterday really doesn’t matter in the automotive business. If you can't grasp that. Just think about Sports.

This is a competition to sell and profit. There are no more excuses.

Either you have it or you don't.

Lexus have the capacity and the resources coupled with talented employees.

No more apologizing for them. They can do it, but lack the tenacity to stick-it to their competition.

Enough finger pointing at the Germans. You want to quiet the crowd? Then drown them with products that the masses will flock to. Until then, what he said, Harris. That is the sentiment and perception the world carries. It can only be broken by having consistent Killers on the squad.

"Its only 0.93 slower than the X-Y-Z model. So why are people dissing it?!" That's a loser mentality. How about shut them up by saying this F kills it spec-by-spec & every time time trial.

I respect all of your opinions but its like reading sports fanatic trying to defend their teams. All that matters is the ring, it doesn't matter how brilliant you've been in the past decade. You need a Michael Jordan, that's how you win. At the moment, its all just a bunch of KD's and LBJ's...

Fun read though. lol

P.S Harrismonkey, still has my respect and follow. He stated an opinion that's soaked heavily in the minds of many outside these borders. Y'all gotta live outside to understand where he coming from.
lol the fact is lexus does get over critisized and the journors do it out of biasness for the Germans. they try to brain wash the youth into believing luxus is a big nothing. The RCF this Chris guy complain about equals the lap times of the M4 and it much stable and safer then the M4, yes it heavyier yet it can lap just as fast, so what is the big fuss about? why does this Chris guy have to complain about the quad stalked axhaust lol? I'll tell you why, it a unique feature for the F brand, that is getting this brand recognized on the streets, they know if they keep saying it ugly human brain of the reader start to beliving it ugly. These journors diss lexus when it not done right but the right lexus does they try to take away

if we lexus enthusiasts are too bias? tell me why Jeremy Clackson didnt have even one positive to say about the RCF, i mean he sure could have complemented the interior atleast. My friend look after soo many reviews of the RCF vs M4, RCF proved to be a better car, it stable got a racing engine it can put it power down better then the m4. This Chris aticle is an attempt to confuse customers and confuse lexus brand itself because if the m4 is a six cylinder, they going to try every trick to make lexus downgrade because it a big advantage for lexus. dont ever fall for such tricks. The RCF is sweet lol with its big block V8
 

Axel

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Lexus is doing very well IS fsport beat the compatition and so does the the GS f, etc. they dont need to prove a point to anybody, as lexus fans it should be our responsibility to troll some sites and defend the brand so it can get its space and keeps offering something different from the norm. right now lexus is being forced to the corner. The spindle grill is the result of pure pressure because some journers kept saying they cant recorgnize the cars
 
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Okay made some time early this morning. And this is the second writer and auto enthusiast I HIGHLY admire that has throw Lexus in the garbage can after putting it on fire and shooting and stabbing it. Clarkson was the first (who I still love and am still drained he got fired) and now Chris Harris who I followed around from magazine to magazine until he went to the troll haven of Jalopnik. Make no mistake about it, I think Chris Harris is amazing and I am a fan though I am very disappointed in this rather short sighted view on Lexus F. I will chalk it up to him hanging around Jalopnik and losing some brain cells in the process.

.... It is quite easy to just point the finger at Lexus and the "F" marque and insult it in the day and age where writers seem to write about today totally overlooking the past. They also seem to move goalposts more than some other forum Admins. So let's discuss this in detail:

First, I would think an enthusiast, ANY Enthusiast, would be very happy that the Lexus F marque is around. Who doesn't love high power RWD cars? Lexus out of nowhere has created a credible performance brand and are the only ones from Asia trying to compete. This is NO easy task considering the Germans have been the only force here for decades until maybe Caddy and the V brand and Jaguar and R which was launched before F.

So lets go back in time...and my post isn't at all to insult or bash the Germans. If it was not for them, there would be no Lexus and if they didn't have their performance brands, there would be no F. I highly HIGHLY respect what they have done even if I don't own one.

Audi
Currently sell some RS vehicles. Let's be crystal clear that their "S" brand does not compete with M and AMG. In the states we have RS5, RS7, R8. The rest of the cars are S cars. Before these cars were here we got the RS4. Well we don't get the new RS4. Before that, we got no RS cars. We got S cars. So basically until about ten years ago, we got no AMG/M competitors in the states. I don't recall any articles saying how confusing that is to an American. No, we just revere and love the cars and hope they make it over the pond, every last one of them. So in Europe it might be crystal clear but in the states, of its confusing.

BMW
Currently sell quite a bit of M cars, including SUVs which they scoffed at years ago saying it would never happen. They also said turbos would never happen but that happened too. In reviews outside of the M3/M4 they fare okay as they have gotten heavier and less involving. In the past they were BY FAR the pinnacle of high performance luxury sport cars. The E60 is the only sedan V-10 in recent memory. Before then the E39 M5 might be one of the greatest saloons of all time. The E34 before it was the class leader. The E46 was a marvel, the E36 we actually didn't get the high output engine but the 240hp one. I don't recall it getting blasted for that, instead it won every compare by a landslide. Note there is no mention of the other M cars since they just don't do that well in reviews though I would drive a M6 if I had 130k laying around because I just think its tits.

Oh, and they stared with a M1. I don't recall seeing a follow up. In over 30 years. I recall a concept a few years ago but I don't recall BMW getting blasted online for never having a new M1. I do recall seeing Honda get ripped for no NSX follow up, every month the last few years. Funny how that works.

Mercedes
AMG wasn't an official part of the company until I believe the late 80s early 90s. They had one car for about 6-7 years, the C36 then C43. I don't recall any articles blasting AMG for only having one car for that long. I do recall solid reviews for it and welcoming a car to fight the M3. I remember the E55 AMG which came in 1999 or so which always lost to the M5. I then recall the current AMG explosion where there are even AMG blenders. Then they have the black series cars which IMO are as desirable as it gets. The SLR was a full blown exotic, the SLS was a follow up though less exotic and the AMG GT is one of the best cars I have ever driven. AMG doesn't even have competitors from most of its German competition. I don't recall any articles blasting BMW or Audi for not competing with AMG at every place in the market.

Chris Harris doesn't seem to be confused about Jaguar F or Cadillac V, which are both also in their infancy. They wouldn't make as good troll bait I assure you.

So as you can see its taken DECADES for the Germans to get where they are, with varying results. They didn't suddenly have these vast expanded lineups. The AMG and RS marques also didn't fare that well to BMW M until recently.

Lexus
The LFA was supposed to be the launching pad for the F brand but the IS F came first as an approved skunkworks model. I remember it debuting in 2007 like many of you and was amazed Lexus would go such a route, to this day I still am. I remember driving it and being driven in it in Moroso at a Lexus track event, from 9-5. I remember not one IS F breaking down. The only issue out of all the cars was one tire blew, which is a tire blowing and not a mechanical failure. I remember initially in reviews the IS F didn't win any here but Top Gear loved it for being the dark horse. Amazingly the RS5 never fared well in reviews but that is glossed over (mind you that wouldn't stop me from getting in bed with it lol).

Then I remember Lexus doing something very rare, they improved the IS F EVERY year. They didn't just let it rot and wither to die. In 2010, it got a real LSD. In 2011 the new driver's oriented gauges and I believe the updated suspension which made a huge difference road and track, cutting lap times and also giving it a more compliant ride. How good? It was lapping like a M3 in some comparo's. To me that should be commended but you will never see an article praising Lexus for continuous improvement. No, instead we read the same hyperbole.

The LFA, I remember the initial reviews. They basically could be summed up with three letters "WTF". Until they drove it, again and again, and it became crystal clear this was one of the greatest cars ever made. I believe Chris Harris himself was one that loved it and stated they need to let the Toyota engineers go mad more often. The Lexus name and price point did confuse those that didn't understand or refused to acknowledge the construction of the car and why it was on par with a 599 GTO instead of a 458. Lexus went for the gusto, something we might not see for decades again. Audi with the R8 isn't in the same ballpark. BMW never even made a car like the LFA or even the R8. Only Mercedes competed here with the SLS at the time. I don't recall any articles blasting BMW for not competing.

So now we have the RC F and the coming GS F and rumors are the IS F and LS F are coming. The RC F reviews have been all over the map thus far with a lot of focus on its weight. Clarkson ripped it to shreds and it seems that might sadly be the official memo for the car (I see his view on the car regurgitated so often its amazing). But you know what, Lexus will improve it, like they did the IS F. I am sure of it. And they won't give up, they will continue to make the F marque better and better.

In retrospect these kind of articles just gives us here additional focus to help promote our love for the Lexus brand and bring people together that also love the brand and helping to educate those that are confused. Like Mr. Harris. :)

2015-lexus-rc-f-with-sc-400-lfa-is-f.jpg




I agree. I think as the years go on, this current gen RC F will become lighter, more agile, and quicker. Like tuning the engine even more with adding more torque and even more power. And same goes for all F cars in the future. The first maybe a statement but later on it will be the car that lexus truly intended it to be
 
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This article is just a person who hasn't or rarely experienced the lexus F driving. He is the type of person to look at the brochure. There are more to a performance car than just the specs. They are just an addition. But the way it drives is the real main point. Why create a fast car if it can't even handle or drive well? That's the point of the F Marque. It's not all about power, even though sometimes I wish there was more (GS F for example) but it's the way the car can truly connect with the driver. That's the real main goal of a sports car or sports brand in my eyes.
 

James

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@LexFather and @Mohammed Taha.

I feel you both bring valid points to the table. One see's the glass half full, the other half empty. :)
Here's my take in relation to your views.

What sums up the argument: "Lexus' F brand is less than 10 years old"

1. It's young, we need to give Lexus a little more time to catch up - TRUE
On the flipside
2. It's had decades of Toyota performance/racing experience from the 2000 GT, to the MR2, Supra up to F1 participation.

I just feel Lexus never gets a really fair shake. We hear how Lexus is "late" to the CUV party with the NX. We barely hear how the RX created this entire segment. Lexus got bashed for having 3 SUVs in the 2000s. Now its cool that the Germans offer 4-5 each. Lexus got bashed for being boring and not sporty. Lexus gets bashed for being not boring and sporty. lol
LexFather I love all the comments and I agree with you. When BMW or Mercedes or heck even Audi does something well they get credit for it and they should. I agree without them there might not be a Lexus or without AMG or RS or M there might not be our F. We need competition otherwise why try. If everyone bought one of those brands than no body else would make cars. But once again when they get their credit for making something good, when Lexus does something good there is no credit. Or very little. I mean the RX is best selling vehicle in its segment. But then there's the its not sporty enough, it doesn't have an F. Doesn't have a third row. It sells 9,000 vehicles a month in North America alone. Its a 50k car or close to. When Lexus does something "bad" like have a heavy car like the RCF it gets bashed (Mercedes has heavy cars...). Lexus is not perfect nor are any of the brands but like you said the F is 10 years old and Lexus has done an amazing job in such a short time.

I used to always hate the Lexus hate that is out there but I'm starting to like it. I feel other brands are jealous and the Germans do not want to admit that Lexus is right there or even better. Lexus has the best customer service and reliability in the business. The hate means they are scared. The hate means they are watching. Problem for them is I think they are watching from behind Lexus.

On another note you mentioned a LS-F and a new IS-F....any place where those rumors are true or accurate?? Excited about the growing F brand and exciting moves from Lexus!
 

krew

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krew

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It’s a tough fact to swallow for most but the truth is, what you did yesterday really doesn’t matter in the automotive business. If you can't grasp that. Just think about Sports.

This is a competition to sell and profit. There are no more excuses.

Either you have it or you don't.

Nice try at an analogy, but with sports there is a clear winner and an obvious loser. How do you determine a clear winner in an automotive comparison? 0-60? Track time? Interior material quality? Cost? Fuel efficiency? It's subjective, and everyone values different things.

"Its only 0.93 slower than the X-Y-Z model. So why are people dissing it?!" That's a loser mentality. How about shut them up by saying this F kills it spec-by-spec & every time time trial.

Say what you will, but I don't have a loser mentality. I have a challenger mentality. My point was not that Lexus was anything better than second place in that specific comparison, but that the margins between the RC F & M4 are much smaller than Harris or Clarkson will admit.

I respect all of your opinions but its like reading sports fanatic trying to defend their teams. All that matters is the ring, it doesn't matter how brilliant you've been in the past decade. You need a Michael Jordan, that's how you win. At the moment, its all just a bunch of KD's and LBJ's...

No way a single car can dominate a segment like Jordan. Not BMW, not Mercedes, not Audi, and not Lexus. Every car has its strengths and compromises.

Straight up -- just because the RC F needs to drop some pounds doesn't mean the entire Lexus F brand is broken. It's simplistic, and doesn't acknowledge how far Lexus performance has come.
 
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Just reading Chris Harris' Twitter, Scott Brownlee is already on the mend.

https://twitter.com/LexusPR/status/587954001150345216

This was a pretty crazy exchange -- Scott Brownlee is the head of Lexus PR in the UK, and he took exception to Harris' opinion that British customers don't understand Lexus.

Great to see someone at Lexus publically fired up about this.
Perhaps the publicity, whether good or bad, can only drive traffic to its dealers...
 

mikeavelli

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Perhaps the publicity, whether good or bad, can only drive traffic to its dealers...

Scott and I have exchanged private Tweets for sometime, he is a GREAT guy, super passionate about the brand like us and knows his stuff. I think he needed to do that, there is so much misinformation about Lexus being spread by "reviewers" and they are very VERY influential. Heck in my teens I thought all the major mags words were 100% factual and the end all be all.

I'm still a Chris Harris fan, but just really lost on this tangent here against Lexus.
 

CIF

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All the Lexus fans here, I really recommend, for the sake of all of us here, and the sake of Lexus as a brand, let's not feed the trolls :).

LET the trolls keep trolling with their "articles" and clickbait. Be the better person and don't buy into their trolling and baiting.

Let them keep worrying and being jealous and afraid of Lexus. If they weren't, then none of these articles would exist, and Lexus would not even be in the conversation. The fact is Lexus is right in the middle of the conversation, staring at the Germans eye-to-eye, face to face, and that has the Germans and their legions of trolls and fanboys very worried.

I have NEVER been prouder to be a Toyota/Lexus fan than I am now (I say this as a Toyota/Lexus fan of 20+ years).

:).
 

Mohammed Taha

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@LexFather - awesome write up. Thanks for the time.

@CIF This has nothing to do with trolling, it's a debate, discuss, and in the end come out wiser. If we don't discuss articles like Chris Harris', we learn nothing.
 
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