7th Generation (2019+) Lexus ES (250, 260, 300h, 350) Megathread

[Sulu]

Agree with you all: fairly predictable, light on exterior changes, it's clear most of the $$ went into the new touchscreen, which is possibly the nicest integration Lexus has done so far.

Agreed. The changes to the dashboard and integration of the central screen seem subtle but are quite extensive. Look closely and it can be seen that the central vents and climate controls have been changed (vents lowered and both jutting out from dashboard) to integrate with the new central touchscreen.

2019 ES:


2022 ES:

 

[sl0519]

It might not be bothering for some people but I've noticed on every lexus' vehicle with touchscreen, there is a huge black plastic brick- like thing sitting behind the touchscreen that is particularly obvious from passenger's side of view. Very unfitting for this class of vehicles.



As a comparison, notice how BMW was able to shape it more elegantly as if it is almost unibody



For newer vehicles (x5 x7 3er), the touchscreen has become so nicely integrated to the point like it is half flowing / resting on the dash without any additional support in the back



2022 ES


Judging from the NX leak, I think lexus is heading into the right direction but I still think they've got a long way to go in terms of designing a touchscreen that is modern looking (nicely shaped, thin bezels) at the same time fitting into the whole dashboard design

 

[spwolf]

BMW might not be great example, its touch screen has a lot of bezel due to design and it is also much lower in dash (you can see a lot of dash above it).

 

[mikeavelli]

Well the BMW screen is designed like that from the start. The Lexus touchpads are updates not originally part of the interior design. So there will be some oddness maybe.

The NX leak showed the new thinking from the start. But many cool tricks up it’s sleeve were not shown.

 

[LateToLexus]

Ok refresh. Pretty ho-hum. Won't really add or lose future ES buyers. Those that were already very interested in ES will likely be slightly more interested. But hardly attracting a lot of new customers....

 

[Sulu]

Ok refresh. Pretty ho-hum. Won't really add or lose future ES buyers. Those that were already very interested in ES will likely be slightly more interested. But hardly attracting a lot of new customers....

I am just happy that Lexus is still selling a mid-sized luxury sedan and holding its own. The demand for mid-sized sedans, both mass-market and luxury, has dropped to close to zero.

 

[internalaudit]

Yet the Taycan outsold (or almost) the 911.

Most crappy handling luxury sedans should go the way of the dinosaur but people keep buying them because of the badge.

Remember the time when BMW poopooed on FWD and now half of its line up is FWD-biased.

The only reason for the existence of luxury mid-sized sedans is for ride comfort (it's a luxury vehicle), low NVH, and handling dynamics. Without handling, it makes sense to just go with a CUV (ground clearance higher so less road noise) if one can afford to lose out on a couple MPG's.

 

[Levi]

ground clearance higher

arguable, especially when sports packages get lowered suspension....

 

[internalaudit]

arguable, especially when sports packages get lowered suspension....

I thought the one on the ES has 300 settings, are none of those able to raise the height for more comfort?

Even the Taycan's air suspension can be lifted a few cm.


All I'm saying is I won't consider another 4-seater luxury sedan/coupe if they are not going to drive any better than above average CUV's and if they're going to be only slightly more fuel efficient and have worse cabin noise.

Might as well wait for a great CUV BEV where I don't get penalized on fuel cost but definitely waiting for rear axle electric torque vectoring and newer battery chemistry.

Oh, this is from someone who still owns an ICEV and two HEVs who doesn't feel the rush to get in a brand new spanking car that isn't really compelling, feature and price-wise.

 

[spwolf]

I thought the one on the ES has 300 settings, are none of those able to raise the height for more comfort?

Even the Taycan's air suspension can be lifted a few cm.


All I'm saying is I won't consider another 4-seater luxury sedan/coupe if they are not going to drive any better than above average CUV's and if they're going to be only slightly more fuel efficient and have worse cabin noise.

Might as well wait for a great CUV BEV where I don't get penalized on fuel cost but definitely waiting for rear axle electric torque vectoring and newer battery chemistry.

Oh, this is from someone who still owns an ICEV and two HEVs who doesn't feel the rush to get in a brand new spanking car that isn't really compelling, feature and price-wise.

ES does not have air suspension, it can not be raised.

As I said several times before, you need to drive vehicles before making these kind of assumptions.

 

[internalaudit]

ES does not have air suspension, it can not be raised.

As I said several times before, you need to drive vehicles before making these kind of assumptions.

You suggest people to test drive a FWD-biased mid-sized luxury vehicle for dynamics or NVH and comfort or for all?

If you were talking about the IS (which is compact and RWD-biased), definitely, haha, take it for a spin. I'm sure the time will be justified.

I was too lazy to check TBH but I didn't know anything other than air suspension can't be raised. This one is hydraulic and reminds of the 90's haha when people were installing them.

KW Hydraulic Lift-System | KW suspensions

www.kwsuspensions.net

 

[spwolf]

You suggest people to test drive a FWD-biased mid-sized luxury vehicle for dynamics or NVH and comfort or for all?

If you were talking about the IS (which is compact and RWD-biased), definitely, haha, take it for a spin. I'm sure the time will be justified.

I was too lazy to check TBH but I didn't know anything other than air suspension can't be raised. This one is hydraulic and reminds of the 90's haha when people were installing them.

KW Hydraulic Lift-System | KW suspensions

www.kwsuspensions.net

no, i am suggesting you drive cars you are interested in so you understand when you have strong opinions on how sedans should ride better than good driving CUVs. Of course they should and they will, because of... gravity.

I dont understand what does all of that have to do with facelifted ES 2022 though. I am not interested into buying one either, right now I am looking at M3P, but that is fine, I understand why people buy these in crazy numbers.

 

[internalaudit]

no, i am suggesting you drive cars you are interested in so you understand when you have strong opinions on how sedans should ride better than good driving CUVs. Of course they should and they will, because of... gravity.

I dont understand what does all of that have to do with facelifted ES 2022 though. I am not interested into buying one either, right now I am looking at M3P, but that is fine, I understand why people buy these in crazy numbers.

We have had tons of sedans before capable handling CUVs were invented and a lot don't handle the roads well.

Sure the CG is lower but a skateboard is lower still than either vehcile yet it doesn't handle better.

You should purchase what your heart desires. Just be sure you get your pocket book ready for depreciation and/or maintenance costs past the warranty period. It's a very fast tank for sure. Not sure how good the handling is with the curb weight and lack of torque vectoring, compared to a RCF or even a Taycan 4S.

 

[Sulu]

I drive an ES Hybrid and I would much rather drive this sedan than any crossover (unless I cannot get what I want in a new ES), for the very simple reason of gravity. I am not an enthusiastic driver but I can tell the difference between a sedan -- even the "crappy handling luxury sedan" that I drive -- and a crossover. The crossover, with its higher centre of gravity than a sedan, feels tippy; my crappy handling sedan does not.

Why do I drive a crappy, FWD-biased sedan over a sport RWD-biased sedan? I drive it -- like many, many, many other luxury sedan drivers -- because it is comfortable and it is easy to drive. And also, for my family, a FWD sedan is safer than a sporty RWD sedan. I am in a family of merely average drivers. I am afraid that family members who may drive my car may not be able to feel the dynamics of the car through the steering wheel or "seat of the pants" -- just like many, many, many other sedan drivers. For these drivers, a "crappy handling [FWD] luxury sedan" is safer to handle than a RWD sedan, especially in wet, snowy or otherwise slippery weather.

I am willing to bet that there are more luxury car drivers who just want a comfortable, easy-driving car than who are looking for a luxury sports sedan, which is why the easy-to-drive ES is still selling but the sporty GS is not.

 

[Levi]

I am willing to bet that there are more luxury car drivers who just want a comfortable, easy-driving car than who are looking for a luxury sports sedan, which is why the easy-to-drive ES is still selling but the sporty GS is not.

Well, most "appliance" buyers went (FWD-based CUVs). The same goes for "enthusiasts", most went (RWD-based performance CUVs). Given there are less performance CUVs than wannabe CUVs, so there are even less performance loweriders than "camry" drivers. Lexus has no performance CUVs to cater to "enthusiasts", so they were not with Lexus in first place, thus little appeal in performance sedans. But here is hoping the trend reverses to a stable minority, with the IS 500 and probably more.

 

[internalaudit]

I am willing to bet it has more to do with the price difference. In Canada, a sporty GS with RWD-bias and double-wishbone front suspension would have been easily $20k over the mid-trim ES. The ES is the entry ticket into the Lexus sedan world so of course it will sell a lot more especially when Lexus buyers care about reliability and craftsmanship more than anything else.

I never called the ES a crappy handling mid-sized sedan. My 12 CT200h will likely be inferior but not even sure how my 11 (now 11 y.o. now) Accord coupe will stack up though fuel economy, NVH and comfort are going to be very inferior).

I'm just saying that luxury mid-size segment is definitely stuck between a rock and a hard place because to be honest, how much different is it to a Camry or an Avalon?

Also as for CUVs, I don't prefer to drive them at all probably unless they're one of the more fun to drive CUVs but my wife does (seating height, ingress and egress) and the extra cargo space is a welcome bonus. With BEV CUVS that handle well enough (perhaps the Macan EV), besides battery longevity, there isn't much of a compromise.

 

[Gecko]

The next episode of the Lexus Enthusiast Podcast is going live today and Kevin and I talk a lot about the new ES, and some of these very points are made.

I think it's important to remember Lexus' announcement a few years ago that they were going to focus on vehicles and segments where they are successful, and not bother to compete in segments where they struggle. That is a smart business decision, and GS/ES is a good example of this. 5 Series and E Class are dominant in the midsize luxury sedan class, so the only way for Lexus to be in that segment is to be different.

Let's take off our enthusiast hats and consider this as a business case. ES is based on the midsize Toyota architecture and it can be 80% of what you get in an E Class or 5 Series for 40% less money: wood, leather, quality, luxury buying experience, brand prestige, safety tech, NVH, smoothness, etc. The people who really want RWD and are going to drive it as such are already going to buy German. That leaves the rest of the class wide open for the ES and A6, which we already see working in Lexus' favor.

ES is a value play, but it's also well executed and it works, and attracts a different type of consumer in that segment. As much as I love the GS and lament it's demise, Lexus keeping the ES true to form and iterating on that winning formula is the smartest thing they can do. If we come to a point where it doesn't work, I'm sure they will re-evaluate, but being based on a Toyota platform and sharing almost all of its parts with the Avalon and Camry means that Lexus can continue to exist in this segment with little risk -- even while it declines. It's brilliant.

 

[Will1991]

Even for the Germans, some buyers don't even know it's RWD... BMW came to this realization with the 1 series ( https://www.automobilemag.com/news/...dont-know-they-have-rearwheeldrive-cars-3558/ ).

Let’s be honest, and this isn’t such a big "issue" for NA, but does it really need to be RWD on a 2L diesel engine? What difference does it makes being FWD or RWD with engines producing around 200hp (or even less sometimes) on a big sedan?

ES300h is a pretty decent well priced car, with an excellent build quality, standard equipment and pretty good fuel economy.
But I was expecting a bit more from this facelift to be honest, at least a hybrid AWD like what’s offered in the UX250h.

PS: Thankfully Lexus is also bringing Enthusiasm back so we’re getting a bit of both worlds 😎

 

[Levi]

Let’s be honest, and this isn’t such a big "issue" for NA, but does it really need to be RWD on a 2L diesel engine? What difference does it makes being FWD or RWD with engines producing around 200hp (or even less sometimes) on a big sedan?

most are not even RWD, but AWD. and high powered version are slowly not even available as RWD, but only AWD. so an AWD ES with Direct4 and turbocharged I4 will be a worthy competitor. See Polestar 1 and new C AMG.

 

[spwolf]

You should purchase what your heart desires. Just be sure you get your pocket book ready for depreciation and/or maintenance costs past the warranty period. It's a very fast tank for sure. Not sure how good the handling is with the curb weight and lack of torque vectoring, compared to a RCF or even a Taycan 4S.

I am pretty sure how it drives since i drove it... several times. And that is the whole idea, i understand what M3P is and what it is not - it is vehicle faster than Taycan 4S but less luxurious, at half the price (here). It is more technologically advanced, by far and less luxurious.

Same as ES, people are not dumb, they know what they are buying. If you cant understand why people buy ES instead of Camry, you are missing the whole ball game. But that is fine too.