5th Generation (2018+) Lexus LS 500 & LS 500h Megathread

[sl0519]

Still hard to believe it’s gone. 2025 been something else

Why stop making sedan c'mon...they could develop a new engine and a new RWD platform and use it across multiple models — LS SUV, LS coupe, LS sedan whatever. I mean sure, fewer people are buying sedans these days, but with platform sharing they could offset the R&D costs using profits from the SUVs, right?

No sedan, no LS.

 

[ssun30]

I recently started having real needs for second row comfort and none of our cars fit the job. How does LS500 do as a chauffeur car? LS with luxury/executive package are almost non-existent in US so there are only normal 5-seat versions available. LS500 depreciate surprisingly fast so most 2021-2023 cars are very cheap. I've thought of getting a GX460. Would the extra space and SUV seating position make up for its unsophisticated chassis (compared to the LS of course)? I plan to keep it long term so I won't be getting a S-class or 7 series.

 

[sl0519]

I recently started having real needs for second row comfort and none of our cars fit the job. How does LS500 do as a chauffeur car? LS with luxury/executive package are almost non-existent in US so there are only normal 5-seat versions available. LS500 depreciate surprisingly fast so most 2021-2023 cars are very cheap. I've thought of getting a GX460. Would the extra space and SUV seating position make up for its unsophisticated chassis (compared to the LS of course)? I plan to keep it long term so I won't be getting a S-class or 7 series.

If you want something quantifiable… it’s hard to put numbers to comfort, but compared to a GS the difference is very obvious. On rough roads, the LS basically cuts down the harshness by like 20–30%.

In daily driving terms:

• On a GS, you still feel the little road chatter.
• On an LS, those tiny vibrations pretty much disappear.
• A big bump that would feel like a real “thud” in the GS turns into just a normal soft “dong” in the LS.

Body roll is more noticeable than the GS, for sure, but that’s just part of how the LS is tuned. These are just the differences I consistently feel between the two.

But that said - if you’re expecting that super-floaty “couch on wheels / land yacht” softness like old-school American luxury cars… this generation LS is not like that (SG’s comment about it being a Lincoln Town Car felt a bit exaggerated, but not entirely wrong), and honestly will never be that. It’s more of a supportive softness, not a marshmallow. But definitely softer than GS for sure.

For context, I’m comparing a GS with AVS to an LS (post 2021) with the air-suspension AVS setup.

 

[Tragic Bronson]

 

[mediumhot]

^
That's either manufacturer agenda or fan's coping excuse why LS is getting canceled. No matter what that's not the real truth. More relevant truth is Toyota didn't want to sell LS and GS so they made them not to sell well.

At the time when 4LS went to its three refresh phases there was no major market shift in automotive industry nor tier 1 flagship market. Even if you can call turbocharging V6/V8 and infotainment advancements as major automotive shift it's not something that Toyota couldn't adjust to. They just didn't want to. After all Toyota was leading the automotive real big shift with their hybrids. They gave up the flagship marketshare for the reasons only known to them. Well they are building Century GT limo from the ground up, I don't know how that makes sense but investing into well established proper 5th and 6th generation flagship sedan 15 years ago didn't make sense. Century is a pipedream at this stage much like how Lexus was 40 years back, it could work but at the same time it can misfire.

 

[CRSKTN]

how that makes sense

In a recent interview Akio says he told them the Century is an "honorary chairmans car".

All he says he told them was effectively "build a century *I* would want to drive" and his team went and did all the work.

Then the guy starts taking credit for everything. You know how actually disturbed, how much of a malignant narcissist you have to be to do that? He starts going off about japanese nationalism, yada yada.

The dude is f****** demented. He is a japanese Musk.

Decaying an entire luxury division because your equipment doesnt work you need it all to be about you and your name is wild.

 

[mediumhot]

What Stephen Elop did to Nokia is also fine read. Many parallels there. Except that it turned out he was an imposter CEO so Microsoft could snatch Nokia.

 

[mikeavelli]

I always said when Aiko debuted the Camry in 2017 at Detroit and not that LS at the same show, that really said a lot.

Fast forward years later and he had a GRMN Century V-12 built. Not the LS.

Looks like 7 series sales grew in 2025 at around 11k. A solid number and obviously great image maker for the brand. That said they sold 32k X7s

Without a LS, it just won’t be the same…Or it does come back as a SUV

 

[Gor134]

This generation 7er has had a consistent 3-year run of 5-digit sales.

Previous gen only had 5-digit sales in it's first year on sale and was down.

This generation 7er is the first to abandon it's sporty roots and go full on boat, imposing, and comfort oriented too.. with competitive powertrain options and EV as well. Makes you wonder if an LS would also sell well going back to a less sporty design.

7er despite polarizing, ugly looks, you cannot deny it has presence on the road and the quality inside to back it up. And I love the wool-based seats they offer, they're so comfortable.

I always said when Aiko debuted the Camry in 2017 at Detroit and not that LS at the same show, that really said a lot.

TBH, I recall Carmaker1 referencing the LS's development being extremely delayed as they wanted to see the W222 for benchmark testing... W222 was, and I'm gonna be a little dramatic here, revolutionary upon it's debut in 2013. Even with all of it's delays, I think Akio knew the LS500 was DOA and uncompetitive against the S Class ESPECIALLY debuting 4 years later in 2017.

 

[sl0519]

This generation 7er has had a consistent 3-year run of 5-digit sales.

Previous gen only had 5-digit sales in it's first year on sale and was down.

This generation 7er is the first to abandon it's sporty roots and go full on boat, imposing, and comfort oriented too.. with competitive powertrain options and EV as well. Makes you wonder if an LS would also sell well going back to a less sporty design.

7er despite polarizing, ugly looks, you cannot deny it has presence on the road and the quality inside to back it up. And I love the wool-based seats they offer, they're so comfortable.


TBH, I recall Carmaker1 referencing the LS's development being extremely delayed as they wanted to see the W222 for benchmark testing... W222 was, and I'm gonna be a little dramatic here, revolutionary upon it's debut in 2013. Even with all of it's delays, I think Akio knew the LS500 was DOA and uncompetitive against the S Class ESPECIALLY debuting 4 years later in 2017.

I’ve been saying this for years: the sedan market never died. BMW has clearly proven that the 7 Series is still standing strong at the top of the segment. So no, the issue was never “people don’t want sedans anymore.” The issue is simple: if your sedan isn’t selling, your product just isn’t good enough.

Also, I think the whole “it’s too sporty” argument is a bit of a red herring. Go watch SG’s Panamera review. With Active Ride, the car delivers both insane comfort and next-level handling. At highway speeds, quick lane changes are rock solid and drama-free, and on rough roads you barely feel any impact at all.

So what’s the takeaway? Luxury sedans are still selling. If yours isn’t, that’s not a market problem — that’s a product problem.

 

[Gor134]

There definitely is a downwards trend in sedan sales, including luxury sedan sales. Far far far from dead though, like you said.

 

[LCLFV]

It's not just the 7 because BMW sales are now an order of magnitude ahead of Mercedes in almost every class they compete against each other in. The only place left where Merc still outsells BMW is in the ultra-luxury segment where their weak attempts like the XM and 8 Series flopped, and even then one could argue that they already counter that with Rolls Royce.

BMW just read the market better than Mercedes. They stuck with their guns by holding onto their high-power inline 6's and V8's as Mercedes tried to replace them with 4 bangers. They also developed EV's based on ICE platforms that were more conventional than the EQ vehicles. Now Mercedes is having to backpedal on both fronts. Cherry on top is that BMW is now no. 4 in Consumer Reports reliability rankings. Other than their design direction everything is going as well as it could for them beyond the Chinese market, which is also hurting Mercedes and VAG to an even more severe degree.

 

[DarkSpace6383]

Why stop making sedan c'mon...they could develop a new engine and a new RWD platform and use it across multiple models — LS SUV, LS coupe, LS sedan whatever. I mean sure, fewer people are buying sedans these days, but with platform sharing they could offset the R&D costs using profits from the SUVs, right?

No sedan, no LS.

I’ve been saying this for years: the sedan market never died. BMW has clearly proven that the 7 Series is still standing strong at the top of the segment. So no, the issue was never “people don’t want sedans anymore.” The issue is simple: if your sedan isn’t selling, your product just isn’t good enough.

Also, I think the whole “it’s too sporty” argument is a bit of a red herring. Go watch SG’s Panamera review. With Active Ride, the car delivers both insane comfort and next-level handling. At highway speeds, quick lane changes are rock solid and drama-free, and on rough roads you barely feel any impact at all.

So what’s the takeaway? Luxury sedans are still selling. If yours isn’t, that’s not a market problem — that’s a product problem.

I completely agree with this. Lexus as a whole needs a completely redesigned flagship lineup. Not saying this is happening, but here is what I would do (and I also included my theoretical racing lineup because why not):

LF:

• LFA
  • Twin Turbo Hybrid V8 ~900hp (300k) 22mpg 2000/year, Series Production
  • Solid State Electric (350mi) ~1250hp (400k) 500/year, Series Production
  • Main Competitor: Ferrari 296 Speciale/GTB, Porsche 911, Upcoming Electric Supercars/Hypercars
  • Trims/Packages F, F-Morizo
  • Seating: 2
• LFX
  • Plug-in Hybrid V6 ~400hp 33mpg
  • Twin Turbo Hybrid V6 ~550hp (130k) 26mpg
  • Twin Turbo Hybrid V8 ~700hp (175k) 23mpg
  • Solid State Electric (500mi) ~1000hp (150k)
  • Main Competitors: Porsche Cayenne, Aston Martin DBX, Audi Q8
  • Trims/Packages: Takumi, Sportline, F
  • Seating: 4, 5
• LFC/Spyder
  • Twin Turbo Hybrid V6 ~450hp-550hp (100k)
  • Solid State Electric (450mi) ~750hp (110k)
  • Twin Turbo Hybrid V8 ~650hp (175k)
  • Main Competitors: BMW M4, BMW M4 Electric, Mercedes-AMG CLE, Porsche 718, C8 Corvette
  • Trims/Packages: Takumi, F, F-Morizo
  • Seating: 2+2, 2

LS:

• LSM
  • Solid State Electric (650mi) ~450hp (130k)
  • Trims: Takumi, Takumi VIP
  • Main Competitors: Mercedes-Benz VLS
  • Seating: 6, 7, 8
• LSX
  • Solid State Electric (650mi) ~650hp (130k)
  • Twin Turbo Hybrid V6 ~400hp 30mpg (110k)
  • Twin Turbo Hybrid V8 ~650hp 23mpg (160k)
  • Trims/Packages: Takumi, Takumi VIP, Sportline, F
  • Main Competitors: Cadillac Escalade, Mercedes-Benz GLS, BMW X7, Land Rover Range Rover
  • Seating: 7, 8
• LSL
  • Electric (700mi) ~650hp (130k)
  • Twin Turbo Hybrid V6 ~400hp 31mpg (110k)
  • Twin Turbo Hybrid V8 ~650hp 24mpg (160k)
  • Trims/Packages: Takumi, Takumi VIP, Sportline, F
  • Main Competitors: Mercedes S-Klasse, BMW 7-Series, Jaguar I-Type
  • Seating: 4, 5

LX:

• LX
  • Twin-Turbo Hybrid V6 ~450hp 27mpg
  • Hybrid V8 ~650hp 23mpg
  • Range-Extender Solid State Electric (900mi) ~700hp
  • Trims: Takumi, Overtrail, Overtrail+
  • Main Competitors: G-Wagen, Hummer EV, Aston Martin Project Rambo, BMW G74, Audi Scout-Based SUV
  • Seating: 5, 7

Formula E:

• Car: LFE Morizo
• Powertrain: Electric

Dakar/Rally

• Car: T1.FX Overtrail+
• Powertrain: Electric

Hypercar

• Car: LFR Morizo
• Powertrain: 3.5 Hybrid V6

GT3

• Car: LFA Morizo GT3
• Powertrain: 4L Hybrid V8

Electric GT

• Car: LFA Morizo GTE
• Powertrain: Electric

GT4

• Car: LFC Morizo GT4
• Powertrain: 4L Hybrid V8

Formula 1

• Car: TR Morizo 01
• Powertrain: 1.6L Hybrid V6
• Role: Technical Alliance with Toyota Racing

The first thing that you may notice is how much I have expanded the flagship lineup. I have broken this line down into 3 segments: Luxury Space, Luxury Performance, and Luxury Capability. There are a lot of holes in the current Lexus lineup. For one, I think the forthcoming LFA needs to be offered with a hybrid V8 option. This car will use solid state batteries even in the hybrid configuration, allowing for bigger electric motors that produce more power. Below this, I have slotted the LFC as a supra based Lexus to serve as a sports-car that starts at a significantly lower price, designed more to compete with the m4, CLE, and base level corvettes. The LFX is an SUV performance vehicle with multiple engine variants, and is based on the LS Coupe Concept. It will be based on a flagship EV platform which will underpin every Flagship Crossover, Sedan, and MPV from Lexus as well as Century vehicles. There will be a similar RWD-based combustion platform to house the hybrid variants of those models as well. I want 2 separate platforms so there is no compromise for interior utilization. The LX will be a dedicated Body-on-Frame offroader based on the same platform as a next-generation GX, and I have made it lean more into rugged capability given the presence of a LSX for on-road comfort.

With regards to Motorsport, I have expanded this significantly. Given that I want Lexus to be pushed from Toyota+ territory more to fighting with BMW and Porsche, it should be more involved in racing. The RCF GT3 was fine, but it's getting replaced with a GR model next year. I decided to enter formula e given Lexus's focus on electrification and the rapid growth that the sport is seeing. The Gen4 cars also look really exciting. Then, I think Dakar would be cool, since Lexus could compete for overall victory in the T1U Category, but while the Hilux GR uses combustion, this could be an electric rally-raid vehicle. Then, I decieded to enter Hypercar. Audi and Porsche were initially going to enter Hypercar with cars based on the same chassis with the same engine, but use different aero. I feel like Lexus could do the same thing with Toyota Racing here. GT cars are another place where the LFA and LFC can race, again targetting Porsche here with their 718 and 911 cars, with the electric variant being targetted as a potential electric GT racing car whenever the time comes for that. Finally, in F1 I think Toyota will take over Haas. While it will probably be run as Toyota Racing F1, Lexus could still be a major sponsor, and provide some engineering knowledge.

Sorry this is a bit rambly just wanted to have some fun. What are your thoughts?

 

[mediumhot]

TBH, I recall Carmaker1 referencing the LS's development being extremely delayed as they wanted to see the W222 for benchmark testing... W222 was, and I'm gonna be a little dramatic here, revolutionary upon it's debut in 2013. Even with all of it's delays, I think Akio knew the LS500 was DOA and uncompetitive against the S Class ESPECIALLY debuting 4 years later in 2017.

5LS was set up to fail due to constrained 4LS development. Same story with GS as 4GS was set up to fail due to constrained 3GS development. Today we can say it was all done on purpose as they probably wanted to get rid of all RWD development and stop competing in tier 1 luxury segment. They've sensed what was the right thing for the brand but what was the quick and profitable right thing for the brand was all wrong for brands enthusiasts. That's how it goes anyway. If you want it illustrated just look how they went from majestic LF-Z to production RZ, that's Lexus in a nutshell today. Mazda's new CX-6e looks like flagship CUV compared to any CUV Lexus offers today.

 

[ssun30]

5LS was set up to fail due to constrained 4LS development. Same story with GS as 4GS was set up to fail due to constrained 3GS development. Today we can say it was all done on purpose as they probably wanted to get rid of all RWD development and stop competing in tier 1 luxury segment. They've sensed what was the right thing for the brand but what was the quick and profitable right thing for the brand was all wrong for brands enthusiasts. That's how it goes anyway. If you want it illustrated just look how they went from majestic LF-Z to production RZ, that's Lexus in a nutshell today. Mazda's new CX-6e looks like flagship CUV compared to any CUV Lexus offers today.

5LS was not set up to fail. The problem is the platform. GA-L is compromised by the goal to make a FCV version. Back then Toyota still believed FCV was the future. By the time they realized the FCV program is a flop, it's already too late.

The sportiness was just a side effect of the high body rigidity needed to protect the hydrogen tanks.

 

[sl0519]

5LS was not set up to fail. The problem is the platform. GA-L is compromised by the goal to make a FCV version. Back then Toyota still believed FCV was the future. By the time they realized the FCV program is a flop, it's already too late.

The sportiness was just a side effect of the high body rigidity needed to protect the hydrogen tanks.

I’ve gone through a ton of 5LS reviews—Chinese, Korean, km77, SG, the whole lot. The thing is, early on everyone was just comparing it to the old 4LS, so of course it looked like a massive step forward. But once you start putting it up against its competition, that feeling kinda falls apart.

Handling has definitely improved, but it’s not really stronger than a G11/12, and it can’t really be said to be noticeably more comfortable either. Facelifts fixed some stuff, but the tuning balance never got as refined as the Germans. They tried to make it sporty and comfortable at the same time, but ended up kinda meh at both. The only way to save it would be to start over, but it looks like they’ve really given up… the spirit of the legendary LS400 is gone. Sigh.

 

[ssun30]

Also, I think the whole “it’s too sporty” argument is a bit of a red herring. Go watch SG’s Panamera review. With Active Ride, the car delivers both insane comfort and next-level handling. At highway speeds, quick lane changes are rock solid and drama-free, and on rough roads you barely feel any impact at all.

Fully active electromagnetic suspension has very high energy consumption and is detrimental to EV range/fuel economy. It's limited to BEVs and PHEVs since it only operates on the high-voltage circuit and draws up to 10kW. It also adds a lot of weight and packaging. It's not magic; Lexus and Bose demonstrated it on the LS400 three decades ago. The 4LS already had terrible depreciation from the semi-active air suspension. 5LS added active anti-roll bars which is also very expensive to maintain/repair. Optioning the $7k+ Active Ride is a very bad financial decision if you plan to own the car beyond the warranty.

On the Century sedan they reverted to a simpler active stabilizer design using purely AVS. However, I do feel all Lexus models could receive an upgrade to MagneRide dampers which gets 95% the performance of fully active electromagnetic suspension while also being more reliable than AVS.

 

[mediumhot]

5LS was not set up to fail. The problem is the platform. GA-L is compromised by the goal to make a FCV version. Back then Toyota still believed FCV was the future. By the time they realized the FCV program is a flop, it's already too late.

The sportiness was just a side effect of the high body rigidity needed to protect the hydrogen tanks.

When 5LS made its debut it was already short on drivers and passenger active and passive technology compared to all three German brands even A8. I don't think ride was ever the problem but the lack of V8 was because back then people still wanted it and they still want it today but in lesser numbers. 5LS is gorgeous looking and it had the best designed interior cabin out of all flagship sedans including Bentley Flying Spur and Rolls Royce Ghost at the time. I love pre facelift LS500 for its beauty and ride but when you sit in A8L the difference is obvious.

 

[DarkSpace6383]

5LS was not set up to fail. The problem is the platform. GA-L is compromised by the goal to make a FCV version. Back then Toyota still believed FCV was the future. By the time they realized the FCV program is a flop, it's already too late.

The sportiness was just a side effect of the high body rigidity needed to protect the hydrogen tanks.

Would there have been any way to engineer the GA-L platform such that it was less comrpomised (compared to what they did)

 

[DarkSpace6383]

When 5LS made its debut it was already short on drivers and passenger active and passive technology compared to all three German brands even A8. I don't think ride was ever the problem but the lack of V8 was because back then people still wanted it and they still want it today but in lesser numbers. 5LS is gorgeous looking and it had the best designed interior cabin out of all flagship sedans including Bentley Flying Spur and Rolls Royce Ghost at the time. I love pre facelift LS500 for its beauty and ride but when you sit in A8L the difference is obvious.

I do agree. I think had the 5LS gotten a V8 it would have been a lot more successful than it was. It overall hurts to see Lexus exit the exec sedan market (the new ES is an atrocity of a car I'm not counting it), though there is a 1 percent chance they could re-enter it. The LS previews have shown us that LS is really a line of different luxury-comfort cars (Van, and crossover), so a Sedan theoretically still fits the mold.