5th Generation (2018+) Lexus LS 500 & LS 500h Megathread

[maiaramdan]

Guys, Lexus case is different from Mercedes

If Lexus wanted to be revamped today with FR lineup in mind, they will make it easily

JDM Century sedan with the V8 hybrid as LS
JDM Crown sedan with V6 and V4 I max as GS

Removing anything under NX aka LBX and UX

Up leveling next generation Yaris and Corolla to have amazing interiors

Maybe return the GX and LX under a Landcruiser brand making the next LX to be this FF Century for this generation and then FR from the next generation

With HPX like or Crown sport but based on the FR Crown sedan
voila

You have modern lux lineup

 

[ssun30]

I don't know how you came to the conclusion a full FR lineup would be easy.

The core of the problem is the GA-L platform. It's unnecessarily large, heavy, cramped, and doesn't downscale well. Even if the market no longer cares about weight, GA-L products still suffer from lack of interior space. They stretched the Crown to 3m wheelbase and it still has almost no rear legroom. And the reason GA-L is so bad is because it's an ICEV/FCEV shared platform.

The second part of the problem is their unwillingness to develop competitive powertrains for longitudinal platforms. The multistage hybrid concept is deeply flawed. It's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. The V35A-FTS is one of the worst engines in its class that achieved basically nothing: not powerful enough, not efficient enough, not reliable enough. The iForce Max is closer to a mild hybrid system than a proper strong hybrid with too little electric power and energy available.

A new FR lineup would require them to develop a new platform and new powertrains from scratch, with careful planning which market segment each product is going for. Unfortunately 1) most segments are now covered by GA-K 2) all the budget went to the dedicated BEV platform that is now 2 years behind schedule and will only be produced in limited quantity.

The Lexus brand today no longer targets the high added value market and is focus solely on appliance products for high middle class. We laugh at Infiniti for their downfall but the QX80 outsells LS/LC/LX combined. Even Infiniti knows better how to build a flagship product. Sure there is LM but its monopoly on the VIP minivan market is not sustainable. I give it 3 years maximum before ultra luxury minivans from China eat away considerable market share.

 

[Sulu]

I agree about the compromised TNGA platforms and I suppose it was easier to make the FWD platforms work than the RWD platform. But will Toyota spend time and resources to develop a new RWD ICE platform when they are developing future--proof EV platforms?

 

[maiaramdan]

I don't know how you came to the conclusion a full FR lineup would be easy.

The core of the problem is the GA-L platform. It's unnecessarily large, heavy, cramped, and doesn't downscale well. Even if the market no longer cares about weight, GA-L products still suffer from lack of interior space. They stretched the Crown to 3m wheelbase and it still has almost no rear legroom. And the reason GA-L is so bad is because it's an ICEV/FCEV shared platform.

The second part of the problem is their unwillingness to develop competitive powertrains for longitudinal platforms. The multistage hybrid concept is deeply flawed. It's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. The V35A-FTS is one of the worst engines in its class that achieved basically nothing: not powerful enough, not efficient enough, not reliable enough. The iForce Max is closer to a mild hybrid system than a proper strong hybrid with too little electric power and energy available.

A new FR lineup would require them to develop a new platform and new powertrains from scratch, with careful planning which market segment each product is going for. Unfortunately 1) most segments are now covered by GA-K 2) all the budget went to the dedicated BEV platform that is now 2 years behind schedule and will only be produced in limited quantity.

The Lexus brand today no longer targets the high added value market and is focus solely on appliance products for high middle class. We laugh at Infiniti for their downfall but the QX80 outsells LS/LC/LX combined. Even Infiniti knows better how to build a flagship product. Sure there is LM but its monopoly on the VIP minivan market is not sustainable. I give it 3 years maximum before ultra luxury minivans from China eat away considerable market share.

Logic

I mean that RnD is here
The current models and it's design is here

 

[mikeavelli]

I don't know how you came to the conclusion a full FR lineup would be easy.

The core of the problem is the GA-L platform. It's unnecessarily large, heavy, cramped, and doesn't downscale well. Even if the market no longer cares about weight, GA-L products still suffer from lack of interior space. They stretched the Crown to 3m wheelbase and it still has almost no rear legroom. And the reason GA-L is so bad is because it's an ICEV/FCEV shared platform.

The second part of the problem is their unwillingness to develop competitive powertrains for longitudinal platforms. The multistage hybrid concept is deeply flawed. It's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. The V35A-FTS is one of the worst engines in its class that achieved basically nothing: not powerful enough, not efficient enough, not reliable enough. The iForce Max is closer to a mild hybrid system than a proper strong hybrid with too little electric power and energy available.

A new FR lineup would require them to develop a new platform and new powertrains from scratch, with careful planning which market segment each product is going for. Unfortunately 1) most segments are now covered by GA-K 2) all the budget went to the dedicated BEV platform that is now 2 years behind schedule and will only be produced in limited quantity.

The Lexus brand today no longer targets the high added value market and is focus solely on appliance products for high middle class. We laugh at Infiniti for their downfall but the QX80 outsells LS/LC/LX combined. Even Infiniti knows better how to build a flagship product. Sure there is LM but its monopoly on the VIP minivan market is not sustainable. I give it 3 years maximum before ultra luxury minivans from China eat away considerable market share.

One thing to note the QX80 is a huge fleet vehicle. And doesn’t sell as well in the middle east to the LX etc.

That said the new QX80 is very impressive. I am a huge fan

 

[Levi]

One thing to note the QX80 is a huge fleet vehicle. And doesn’t sell as well in the middle east to the LX etc.

That said the new QX80 is very impressive. I am a huge fan

In those regions LX is the logical buy when Landcruisers are everywhere. Helps with parts and serviceability. UN fleet is basically Landcruiser.

 

[ssun30]

Logic

I mean that RnD is here
The current models and it's design is here

What RnD?

 

[maiaramdan]

What RnD?

Research and Development
The engineering part
The pre design part

 

[sl0519]

I don't know how you came to the conclusion a full FR lineup would be easy.

The core of the problem is the GA-L platform. It's unnecessarily large, heavy, cramped, and doesn't downscale well. Even if the market no longer cares about weight, GA-L products still suffer from lack of interior space. They stretched the Crown to 3m wheelbase and it still has almost no rear legroom. And the reason GA-L is so bad is because it's an ICEV/FCEV shared platform.

The second part of the problem is their unwillingness to develop competitive powertrains for longitudinal platforms. The multistage hybrid concept is deeply flawed. It's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. The V35A-FTS is one of the worst engines in its class that achieved basically nothing: not powerful enough, not efficient enough, not reliable enough. The iForce Max is closer to a mild hybrid system than a proper strong hybrid with too little electric power and energy available.

A new FR lineup would require them to develop a new platform and new powertrains from scratch, with careful planning which market segment each product is going for. Unfortunately 1) most segments are now covered by GA-K 2) all the budget went to the dedicated BEV platform that is now 2 years behind schedule and will only be produced in limited quantity.

The Lexus brand today no longer targets the high added value market and is focus solely on appliance products for high middle class. We laugh at Infiniti for their downfall but the QX80 outsells LS/LC/LX combined. Even Infiniti knows better how to build a flagship product. Sure there is LM but its monopoly on the VIP minivan market is not sustainable. I give it 3 years maximum before ultra luxury minivans from China eat away considerable market share.

All of us L enthusiasts know exactly what needs to be done - it's just the execs up top who keep making all the wrong moves. Sadly, there's nothing we can do about it. All we can do is go buy something more competitive from another brand. Sigh...

 

[maiaramdan]

Execs are mainly looking for numbers
That why

Yes Toyota will have around 6 sports cars 4 of them are FR

But business logic for them
Toyota has a lot of space to be more refined till the line of the luxury because of the recent years Chinese raised par and here is the main problem

If Toyota increased the par more like the current Crown or more, this may not justify the Lexus brand of it's becoming on par with each other

To be honest Lexus name is not a European name can't hold over the LS, the last opportunity got messed up by Toyota was Aston Martin before it was JLR

 

[Levi]

Toyota is not good at marketing, and while Toyota did and still does have niche products, it is all over the place and random, I don’t believe they would be able to target and maintain a successful niche product even mid-term.

Aston Martin has the same problem as Lotus and Maserati. Small market, way more expensive than BAM, quantitatively worse than Porsche, and always less prestigious than Lamborghini, Ferrari and Rolls Royce. Bentley is in a better situation, but struggles too a bit. It might change with the smaller electric CUV.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Research and Development
The engineering part
The pre design part

He knows what it means. He asked you what R&D are you seeing from them?

The answer is nothing.

 

[maiaramdan]

He knows what it means. He asked you what R&D are you seeing from them?

The answer is nothing.

Toyota already working on a lot of projects

Guys the Chinese fit and finish in let's say seal is miles more than the Corolla

Toyota already in a dilemma of it

 

[ssun30]

From this

to this

From this

to this

 

[Gecko]

End of an era.

 

[b.ba]

Genuinely can't believe I spent all my youth yearning for a Lexus and by the time I can buy a car in the near future they pull the rug 😮‍💨

 

[RAL]

Maybe in real life and a US version ...

 

[CRSKTN]

Genuinely can't believe I spent all my youth yearning for a Lexus and by the time I can buy a car in the near future they pull the rug 😮‍💨

Sorry my dude, but listen if you scrounge up $175k $250k $450k $650k I will sell you my LC500.

 

[b.ba]

Sorry my dude, but listen if you scrounge up $175k $250k $450k $650k I will sell you my LC500.

At this point I'll take it!

 

[CRSKTN]

At this point I'll take it!

This is legally binding.