4th Generation Toyota Highlander (and Grand Highlander) Thread

[NomadDan]

Personally, I think the T24 is going to be the GR replacement, and I also don’t see anymore transverse V6s from Toyota or Lexus. IMO, all transverse engines will be 3 or 4 cylinder engines, and we’ve already seen the start of that with the Sienna, and now the Highlander. Camry, RX, and ES will most likely lose the V6 soon as well.

The only exception to the above may be the TX and Grand Highlander, but if these do end up having a V6 option, I suspect these will be based on the TNGA-L rear drive platform.

The MPG numbers for the Highlander are disappointing, but I’d be curious to see what the real world numbers are.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Another Akio Toyoda debacle.

I saw this on C&D comments as well. I don't think Toyoda-san has much to do with this.

Going forward, it looks as if the 2.4L Turbo will be the primary powertrain for many future Toyota/Lexus vehicles.

Gecko, Carmaker1, and others predicted this a long time ago. The T24A-FTS is the new workhorse engine for Toyota and Lexus.

I only wonder if Toyota and Lexus will bring back a V6 into their more pedestrian offerings if the political climate changes.

 

[LarryT]

I saw this on C&D comments as well. I don't think Toyoda-san has much to do with this.

"Denial ain't just a river in Egypt."

I only wonder if Toyota and Lexus will bring back a V6 into their more pedestrian offerings if the political climate changes.

I seriously doubt it.

 

[Gecko]

I hate it but I think this is the new normal until things transition to full electric:

Former V8 or above = 6 cylinder + FI and/or hybrid now
Former V6 = 4 cylinder + FI and/or hybrid now

The I4 is the new V6, and the V6 is the new V8. Toyota sunk too much money into this approach to change it now, and they're so invested in FWD architectures that it's much easier to engineer everything around 4cyl engines with few exceptions for the TTV6.

BRB I'm gonna go cry real fast.

 

[NXracer]

Personally, I think the T24 is going to be the GR replacement, and I also don’t see anymore transverse V6s from Toyota or Lexus. IMO, all transverse engines will be 3 or 4 cylinder engines, and we’ve already seen the start of that with the Sienna, and now the Highlander. Camry, RX, and ES will most likely lose the V6 soon as well.

The only exception to the above may be the TX and Grand Highlander, but if these do end up having a V6 option, I suspect these will be based on the TNGA-L rear drive platform.

The MPG numbers for the Highlander are disappointing, but I’d be curious to see what the real world numbers are.

Moving a GH size bigger vehicle with a 4 cylinder is like making toyota its own version of the subies ascent, slow and big.

 

[NXracer]

I hate it but I think this is the new normal until things transition to full electric:

Former V8 or above = 6 cylinder + FI and/or hybrid now
Former V6 = 4 cylinder + FI and/or hybrid now

The I4 is the new V6, and the V6 is the new V8. Toyota sunk too much money into this approach to change it now, and they're so invested in FWD architectures that it's much easier to engineer everything around 4cyl engines with few exceptions for the TTV6.

BRB I'm gonna go cry real fast.

Its whats in for the auto industry. Coupled with the emissions song and dance that mfgs will do whatever it takes to make the cut. I do wonder if the they're feet were not on the proverbial fire, was their any room for an ICE vehicle to run more efficiently for both emissions and mpg.

 

[JustADude]

If this T24 can be smooth like the v6, it should justify Toyota moving to this engine. The 2gr is famous for its smoothness and power delivery. Hopefully in vehicles like the RX350 it can be just as smooth and creamy as the 2gr.

 

[JustADude]

Also, here is a "leaked" image for the GH's body. Could be legit as on the last photo you can see Toyota on the blue panel its carried on. Take a look for yourself.

 

[NXracer]

Thanks for sharing. It does look like the the body in white is of the new sequoia?

Something that C&D cheekily labeled BZ5x might be the GH...who knows

 

[JustADude]

Thanks for sharing. It does look the the body in white is of the new sequoia?

Something that C&D cheekily labeled BZ5x might be the GH...who knows

it could be the sequoia actually. I was skeptical at first and thought it was a sequoia

 

[Gor134]

That originally rumoured GH body ended up being the Sequoia.

 

[JustADude]

That originally rumoured GH body ended up being the Sequoia.

yea I think you are right. It's the sequoia.

 

[Sulu]

Disappointing, IMO. 30 less horsepower and same MPG as the V6? Then give me the V6. Yes, more torque is going to make it feel stronger at lower RPMs but if the net-net is the same MPG, then why bother?

Also, when did Toyota start going so mild on exterior refreshes? I miss the days of new bumpers, lights and wheels because the most recent Camry, RAV4 and Highlander refreshes are barely noticeable.

I find this generation of Highlander pretty unattractive and this doesn't do much to fix it or make it look updated in a very competitive segment.

I don't think that this was an exterior styling refresh; it was an engine refresh, with the new T24A-FTS engine, and an infotainment system refresh with the new multimedia system from the NX.

 

[Sulu]

Wouldn't that negatively impact their CAFE numbers, though?

Example: selling 200k units per year with a 75:25 split from conventional:hybrid with 24 combined for conventional and 36 combined for hybrid would give a 26.5mpg fleet "average" for the Highlander line. If the real combined number were 26, but the split between hybrid and conventional looks more like 90:10 with those advertised numbers, the Highlander line would "average" 27mpg.

Cost and capacity are a total wild card here. If the T24 costs a lot more to build than the hybrid A25, they may be targeting a certain mix, but I'd have to think that the low rating would hurt the Highlander when it competes in a crowded segment.

Turbocharged engines look good on paper: The officially-published fuel economy numbers look better than the old, naturally-aspirated engines they replace. And since CAFE numbers are based on these EPA figures, CAFE looks good. But the real-life fuel economy figures are worse than the EPA numbers and no better than the old engines they replace.

 

[ssun30]

Wouldn't that negatively impact their CAFE numbers, though?

Example: selling 200k units per year with a 75:25 split from conventional:hybrid with 24 combined for conventional and 36 combined for hybrid would give a 26.5mpg fleet "average" for the Highlander line. If the real combined number were 26, but the split between hybrid and conventional looks more like 90:10 with those advertised numbers, the Highlander line would "average" 27mpg.

Cost and capacity are a total wild card here. If the T24 costs a lot more to build than the hybrid A25, they may be targeting a certain mix, but I'd have to think that the low rating would hurt the Highlander when it competes in a crowded segment.

You just showed why this strategy works. If the split reaches 40:60, the fleet average reaches 29, at 50:50, 30, at 75:25, 33. Toyota tries to aim for 50:50 split between ICEV/HEV in the future. The more they can influence buyers towards the hybrid model, the better the maths work out.

The simplest way to think about this is going to the extremes, imagine a car company offers an ICEV model with 5MPG and a HEV model with 99MPG. Then the split becomes 0:100 and fleet average is 99.

I was a bit unclear when I said Toyota has an 'incentive' to do this. I didn't mean they do this intentionally. They do it unintentionally by spending way more time on calibration of the hybrid powertrain than the gas powertrian. Their hybrid models are generally very optimized whereas their gas models are somewhat lackluster.

I saw this on C&D comments as well. I don't think Toyoda-san has much to do with this.

The fact they are developing a new 8AT transmission to optimize for performance is proof they do it differently at GR. They try to optimize it very well the same way BMW did with the B48/58-ZF8HP combinations, maybe even better since the transmission is bespoke for the engine. They probably learned a few valuable lessons in the Zupra project.

By comparison their mainstream models follow a one-size-fit-all approach where they develop one engine/transmission mapping and apply it on all similar cars with minor tweaks. Powertrain calibration is hard because the mapping is unique for every specific model even if the mechanical parts are identical (also reason why aftermarket ECU flashes never work as well as OEM tunes). Even BMW themselves made a mistake with the N63 tune that unintentionally made the M550i slower than the heavier X5 M50i.

 

[qtb007]

You just showed why this strategy works. If the split reaches 40:60, the fleet average reaches 29, at 50:50, 30, at 75:25, 33. Toyota tries to aim for 50:50 split between ICEV/HEV in the future. The more they can influence buyers towards the hybrid model, the better the maths work out.

The simplest way to think about this is going to the extremes, imagine a car company offers an ICEV model with 5MPG and a HEV model with 99MPG. Then the split becomes 0:100 and fleet average is 99.

I was a bit unclear when I said Toyota has an 'incentive' to do this. I didn't mean they do this intentionally. They do it unintentionally by spending way more time on calibration of the hybrid powertrain than the gas powertrian. Their hybrid models are generally very optimized whereas their gas models are somewhat lackluster.

But Highlander is only around 25% hybrid right now*. An artificially low conventional number isn't going to swing things to 50 or 75 percent hybrid. The mix is only going to shift 5% or so in this generation just based on the production capacity that is already planned. For the next gen, I fully expect them to be targeting 50% or more hybrid... but this gen is set.

*16k hybrids out of 66k Highlanders sold year to date

 

[shizhi]

The Highlander/Crown Kluger gain a new engine “S20A-FTS” in China…

 

[JustADude]

The Highlander/Crown Kluger gain a new engine “S20A-FTS” in China…View attachment 5823View attachment 5824

At the bottom it says in kw 182, which is 244hp. That's I think 3 more hp than the 8ar. I can't tell if this is an all new engine or not. The M20a is 1986cc vs this 1997cc. The old 8ar had 1998cc I believe.

 

[shizhi]

At the bottom it says in kw 182, which is 244hp. That's I think 3 more hp than the 8ar. I can't tell if this is an all new engine or not. The M20a is 1986cc vs this 1997cc. The old 8ar had 1998cc I believe.

In China, due to emission restrictions, the maximum power of the 8AR is only 162kw with Highlander or 170kw with RX300.

 

[NomadDan]

Sounds a bit like a new 2.0L turbo 4.