Flagship1

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QDR is relatively important and in favor of the GX. That being said as per Cox auto reports, the majority of the new vehicles sold by Lexus, no shade of course are the most important set of owners to the brand, and the majority of them are leasing (regardless of the financial number).

Social points and how special they feel will nullify any shortcomings a vehicle has in the reliability department hence why defenders are still in demand and Land Rover, even though they are service department specials.

That being said right now, regardless of the automotive press's feelings the GX is as special as one can get, and I hope Lexus can capitalize on their moment, because they have earned it.
 
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Falcon

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That’s not enough to eliminate the jitters emanating from every body-on-frame truck
What do they mean by this? In my experience BOF SUVs tend to be more isolated and smoother than unibody CUVs especially with an independent rear or active suspension. The latter's advantage lies in handling.
Both SUVs sprint to 60 mph in 6.4 seconds with the Defender gaining an advantage in the quarter mile
Meanwhile, the GR Sport in the clip I posted above :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
No denying bags give it an advantage over the conventional GX suspension, but unfortunately air suspension failures and problems are one of the most common Defender issues
This is where AHC comes in. It's very reliable even if you go offroading frequently. This makes me wonder though. Will the new Patrol/Armada receive the new QX80's air suspension or will they make do with just the "dynamic digital suspension"? If they do give it to the Patrol maybe they're confident in its reliability offroad.
but I think the Defender interior is pretty awful
Agreed. The LC300's interior is much better and so is the LC250's. Also I can't wait for the new Patrol/Armada's interior.
 
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NomadDan

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The problem with all these car reviewers is they never take into consideration long-term reliability. Car and Driver and Motor Trend, in particular, seem to almost have some sort of vendetta against Toyota/Lexus.
 

Ian Schmidt

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Social points and how special they feel will nullify any shortcomings a vehicle has in the reliability department hence why defenders are still in demand and Land Rover, even though they are service department specials continues to exist.
I get people thinking that, but at least around here it's not uncommon to be stopped at a light with 2 or 3 Land Rovers. And then you hope they still run and drive when the light turns green! :p At least from what I see the G-Wagen and LX are the rarest higher-end SUVs right now.
 

Flagship1

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The problem with all these car reviewers is they never take into consideration long-term reliability. Car and Driver and Motor Trend, in particular, seem to almost have some sort of vendetta against Toyota/Lexus.
Its a difficult subject to really report on since no one really has internal stats or standards metrics for reliability. The press companies that do something to push the needle rely on a closed off subscription based focus groups or word of mouth.

For instance the 2nd generation GX is considered a really reliable vehicle as per mechanics, jd reports, consumer reports. However as per the ownership groups, GXs suffer from secondary air valve issues, cam tower leaks, infotainment unit failure, coolant valley issues, and most recently transmission failure issues.
 

ssun30

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The problem with all these car reviewers is they never take into consideration long-term reliability. Car and Driver and Motor Trend, in particular, seem to almost have some sort of vendetta against Toyota/Lexus.
Because reliability can only be measured with a large sample size and long time scale. A single review cannot determine the reliability of a product because it's an anecdotal evidence.

Be careful what you wish for. If car reviewer experience are to be taken on face value, you will conclude the new Tacoma is a very unreliable product.
 

qtb007

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Interesting review. Looking at it slightly differently from an owner/real world buyer perspective...

With these two vehicles it's silly to not mention reliability and durability. Maybe some folks don't care, but GX buyers generally do and the Defender's reliability record has been positively abysmal so far. Motor Trend seems to have a brief memory. I belong to a few different GX groups and there are many Land Rover folks who are ready to make the jump to the GX after significant failures/repairs with Defenders.

It seems like a key deciding factor in Motor Trend's final scoring was on-road manners. I understand that and it's a fine point, but in this class there are many folks who prefer driving BOF SUVs to unibody CUVs. I'm one of them. If you're going to build and offroad one of these for years to come, rough impacts on an aluminum unibody with air suspension vs. a body-on-frame steel chassis with conventional steel springs is going to be a difference you feel (your bank account agrees).

Land Rover's inclusion of an air suspension on the Defender to help with ground clearance and approach/departure angles was a good one, especially since it's unibody. No denying bags give it an advantage over the conventional GX suspension, but unfortunately air suspension failures and problems are one of the most common Defender issues. Also it seems like any of the Defender's offroad shortcomings were chalked up to the tires, but the Goodyear Wrangler All-Terrain Adventure is a tire Land Rover specifically spec'ed for the Defender so..... not sure what to say there.

Another matter of personal preference, but I think the Defender interior is pretty awful -- especially for the price. It looks like an update of the 2011 Honda Element interior to me, and certain elements like exposed screw heads and rubber flooring seem really out of place at $90k. While I don't love the 3GX interior, I prefer it 11 days out of 10 to the Defender's.



What suspension work isn't cheap - a lift kit on a GX or air suspension repairs on a Defender? ;)



Edited for clarity: The GX 550 was easier to drive off road and was more capable despite having less ground clearance, but the Defender was almost as good offroad and drove better on pavement due to being a unibody CUV with air suspension.

At the end of the day, it's cool to have these two great options but there are plenty of people who wouldn't touch a Defender with a 10 foot pole due solely to reliability. Oh well. Choose wisely!
I don't have a lot of beef with their ranking. For some random person shopping $80k SUVs, the Defender is probably a better all around vehicle for the way that those people will use it. That said, I agree with you about my personal preference. GX all the way for me. Solid rear axle, body on frame, non-air suspension. I will 100% choose not having to deal with an air suspension long term over the minor clearance and handling improvements that come with air suspension. These are all great starts to a vehicle that will be durable. And I'm not talking clapped out, 5th owner, "still limping around on the road" durable. I'm talking feeling tight as a drum with over 100k, suspension not worn out, feels like a new vehicle. I sold my 4Runner at 7 years and 70k miles last year. It still felt like a new car. I literally only got rid of it because it worked for my financial situation to make the upgrade to a '23.

I do like the Defender quite a lot, but I wouldn't consider one until maybe 2029. If the Defenders are still being owned by their first owners and have developed a reputation for being reliable in that time, I'd be happy to overlook their current reputation. My wife's MINI is an example of a brand turning around their reliability. Our 8 year old, 62k mile F54 Clubman has been pretty solid which is a drastic change from the R56 generation before it. I'm unlikely to give Land Rover the benefit of doubt at this point, though. I honestly hope they have improved. I'm not confident enough that they have to spend my own money on one.
 
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The problem with all these car reviewers is they never take into consideration long-term reliability. Car and Driver and Motor Trend, in particular, seem to almost have some sort of vendetta against Toyota/Lexus.
Car reviewers know their audience...'rich' people don't tend to value the very same things as buyers relying on Consumer Reports' annual buying guide; LR buyers are willing to spend the $. Perhaps this article from Doug is still relevant
 
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The Atomic Silver models keep looking better and better. I’m generally not a fan of silver vehicles, but I’ve always liked Atomic Silver, and it looks so fantastic on the GX.
Too bad the color is no longer available on other models...I wish my dad got his ES in Atomic but no, he had to go with Silver Lining.