Gecko

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I'll ease back into posting here, but as a whole I'm finding myself stretched very thin all over the place anyway. I won't avoid posting, but it's probably going to be infrequent on all websites. I'm wrapping up Tacoma coverage finally and onto things remaining on GA-F. Once that is done, I'm just gonna comment very laidback and not in the same capacity.
Woo hoo! We are so glad to have you back! 🙌🤩
 
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Tacomas and 4Runners didn’t share platforms the past few generations and were developed a lot more independently. This time they are sharing platform, sharing redesign schedule, sharing customer base… it’s gonna be more similar than ever.
Perhaps the same factories as well?
 

Carmaker1

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Hey uhh, sorry folks. I was going to bed, when I checked my messages and saw an HQ response.

There's a bit of an issue here at play and while the GX reveal date is correct (and probably already known here), I must say that the 4Runner rendering...:rolleyes:🤷‍♂️

You have one guy who is HQ personnel and the other is Tier 1, who has worked with it and driven, yet...they don't agree with each other.

PM me and I'll explain with proof of why. Won't dare post it here publicly. REALLY sorry about that mix-up. One just has to be very careful relying on someone else's insight, as nothing is ever concrete until official on my end. I learned that with the 10AT not being offered in the Tacoma, no thanks to someone at Lexus in KY misleading me into believing it would have 10AT instead of 8AT.

Usually I do not make these mistakes with product relevant to my association, so it's quite unfortunate people working at Toyota/Lexus, in a division of TMNA wouldn't be on target like I am in relevance to my own work. Very different TBH.
Woo hoo! We are so glad to have you back! 🙌🤩
Thanks! And as one can see, I keep making these mistakes. It is becoming very obvious to me a lot of things today and going forward I have a lot to learn. That rendering is not liked by another VERY credible insider. SMH (and shrugs).
4Runner will be Tacoma with a canopy and probably a different front bumper/grille. Tundra:Sequoia::Tacoma:4Runner.
Hearing from an HQ contact this evening:confused:, I'm trusting this strongly. That person is more consistent than the other one. My apologies for any mixup. A damn mess.
 
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NVlaar

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Hey uhh, sorry folks. I was going to bed, when I checked my messages and saw an HQ response.

There's a bit of an issue here at play and while the GX reveal date is correct (and probably already known here), I must say that the 4Runner rendering...:rolleyes:🤷‍♂️

You have one guy who is HQ personnel and the other is Tier 1, who has worked with it and driven, yet...they don't agree with each other.

PM me and I'll explain with proof of why. Won't dare post it here publicly. REALLY sorry about that mix-up. One just has to be very careful relying on someone else's insight. as nothing is ever concrete until official on my end sadly. I learned that with the 10AT not being offered in the Tacoma, no thanks to someone at Lexus in KY misleading me into believing it would 10AT instead 8AT. Usually I do not make these mistakes with product relevant to my association, so it's quite unfortunate people working Toyota/Lexus wouldn't be on target like I am.

Thanks! And as one can see, I keep making these mistakes. It is becoming very obvious to me a lot of things today and going forward I have a lot to learn. That rendering is not liked by another VERY credible insider. SMH (and shrugs).

Hearing from an HQ contact this evening:confused:, I'm trusting this strongly. That person is more consistent than the other one. My apologies for any mixup. A damn mess.
Thanks for all the info. Anything news about the Hilux? Will it have a new diesel engine? :D
 

qtb007

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Perhaps the same factories as well?
IMO, if it was locally developed and manufactured, we’d have seen some mules running around like we saw Tacoma a year ago. I’m not aware of any additional capacity investments in Mexico to handle the 100-140k 4Runners Toyota sells annually. I think GT and BC will be bursting at the seams with Tacoma as is.
 

Carmaker1

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Thanks for all the info. Anything news about the Hilux? Will it have a new diesel engine? :D
Of course!

No, you'll have to wait and see. I have no official knowledge being shared to me regarding non-USA products. I have thoughts, but it's simply speculative. Everything "concrete" not being firsthand, I'm dependent on my sources (which will definitely not include non-Toyota personnel going forward).
 
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Carmaker1

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IMO, if it was locally developed and manufactured, we’d have seen some mules running around like we saw Tacoma a year ago. I’m not aware of any additional capacity investments in Mexico to handle the 100-140k 4Runners Toyota sells annually. I think GT and BC will be bursting at the seams with Tacoma as is.
I've sent a PM about this, because it's a bit of a head scratcher on TMMGT plans.
 

mikeavelli

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Well it’s a bit different when people post anonymously with info compared to my ass which anyone can point a finger at 🤣. It’s a fine line between posting rumors and thoughts and leaking info which shouldn’t be out there yet. There’s been issues on Reddit with some dealer employees sharing info they absolutely should not and it getting deleted.

I feel we all have the best intentions here and we have been really cool and respectful to one another for the most part.

As for the TX and GX, I won’t share more than I’ll be at the launch.
 

guy80

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those new seats seem neat, assuming they provide value in the real world; perhaps useful in Colorado on the way to Chins Lake

I'm closely watching the new GX and hoping for more rugged looking and shorter front bumper aka better off-roading from the factory - also watching for the TOY "land cruiser"
 

Carmaker1

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Well it’s a bit different when people post anonymously with info compared to my ass which anyone can point a finger at 🤣. It’s a fine line between posting rumors and thoughts and leaking info which shouldn’t be out there yet. There’s been issues on Reddit with some dealer employees sharing info they absolutely should not and it getting deleted.

I feel we all have the best intentions here and we have been really cool and respectful to one another for the most part.

As for the TX and GX, I won’t share more than I’ll be at the launch.
Yes, so well understood and should be respected. I have to keep everything separate, because the risk is legally deadly when one learns new things and shares it with a handle that can easily be connected to your legal identity.

Plus, this forum has a special relationship in my opinion, so quite different TBH than any other forum out there, that doesn't have a watchful eye over them from corporate. Things will come out at their due time and no one should put this place at risk, of upsetting not just Lexus USA, but Global HQ.

You've been one of the biggest younger champions of this brand roughly 3 decades IIRC and brought some early shine on the original GS450h in a TV special some 15+ years ago. Too high profile to even risk it.

That's why YouTubers don't really know anything about Lexus/Toyota future-wise, unless someone from corporate is a fan of theirs and is willing to riskily share information privately. Otherwise, they'll be entirely in the dark, unless lurking on discussion in these types of spaces.

I'm only a step above them, because some employees share information with me covertly, but often it is mixed results in being secondhand, compared to firsthand or firsthand-adjacent insight Lexus ambassadors like you would have.

Anyone who is a brand ambassador, should just enjoy that privilege in privacy and limit their firsthand insight to the most trusted personal contacts only, that you work with or have met one-on-one. I have a very different moniker when I post in a personal capacity.

If I in the future ever post compromising insight, I understand if my posts might be deleted like some others. Other forums fail to do so, until legal departments demand takedowns. It's better be proactive as forum administrators, than wait for that to happen.
 

Carmaker1

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Well, i'm sure it's not very shocking to some of you, but as you've seen with the new Tacoma, there are a lot of special things coming to the other midsize TNGA-F vehicles.

I won't say too much this time about the 4R (off topic), but I've gotten a response from my contact after making the case for that rendering being endorsed by a T1 source.

HQ source relented upon me providing more context and in their own time pored over the 2025 4Runner in ways I cannot state here publicly, to protect them from any HQ management personnel who might read this and deduce who did so in that way recently.

There's some truth to the 4R renderings, but the Tacoma is something to really keep in mind according to him. I don't want to speculate on what he means, but makes sense in terms of maybe reducing costs? He answered some other questions for me too.

Well, the 2024 Land Cruiser at least continues to be very shocking (just like GX for others) and lives up to what one of you mentioned many years ago to me in private, that has been dismissed as a unicorn of sorts by other Toyota/Lexus owners or mistakenly referred/expected as the 300-Series.

Whether or not that is in bad form to be discussing "early", I feel that I'm honestly sick of some people missing the obvious. The idea the GX was going to die, should've gone out the door back in 2021. I cannot tell you how annoyed I get, reading obtuse comments away from this forum, asking if it's just a refresh or that is it going to be FWD or unibody. Or is TX replacing the GX?

There's a way to know these things, even if you are not a regular on this forum or an industry professional, who understands how a lot of product planning works. A simple Google search brings up the topic and it's honestly your job to differentiate speculation, uninformed conjecture, and clickbait BS from informed discussion in online spaces.

This forum, is probably amongst the fewest out there who've mastered this skill for knowing anything Japanese brand in advance or at least trusting each other to do so, responsibly. German car forums are the next, which is cake for them, when German automotive marketers favor transparent product planning and development, which allow both the media and public to know their next set of moves years in advance. Despite this, they are very successful in spite of competitive benchmarking risks.

None of us have ever had to repeat our points over and over, except when outside misinformation on rare occasion throws some of us off. Judging by posts on social media, it's sad how people miss what's often right in front of them and act shocked that Lexus has been developing a new GX all this time, plus the return of the Land Cruiser name (as a non-300) and that the 4Runner has a future. I mean, come on man! Folks need to get with it, as nobody on this forum is shocked at that at all, at any of those things.

He says that the 2024 GX will be offered as both a gas GX 550 and as a hybrid, everywhere the GX nameplate will be sold. I haven't seen GX 550h trademarked in North America, but I guess it's coming here too anyway. That was what I needed answered on the GX front, because I don't like asking either of them too many questions, unless it's a mutual exchange.

Please dismiss any media out there, speculating that the Tundra i-Force Max V35A-FTS will be offered in the GX 550. They are not using sensible skills to follow Lexus marketing's existing nomenclature practice, where all hybrids have the h suffix. Economy-focused and performance-focused. Mild hybrid or full blown.

How would Lexus offer a much more powerful
GX 550 with a hybrid powertrain, below the non-hybrid LX 600 at 409 hp 479 lb-ft, when LX 700h will have a variation of V35A-FTS in performance hybrid form? I would think such a similar model would be GX 650h/700h or GX 600h if significantly detuned.

Surprises can happen, but beyond GX 550 a V35A-FTS powered vehicle and GX 550h a T24A-FTS hybrid shared with 4Runner i-Force Max, I'd be damned if Lexus offers a turbo V6 hybrid in the new GX. I'm not immune to mistakes, but the lack of reasoning out these things annoys me greatly.
 
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Well, i'm sure it's not very shocking to some of you, but as you've seen with the new Tacoma, there are a lot of special things coming to the other midsize TNGA-F vehicles.

I won't say too much this time about the 4R (off topic), but I've gotten a response from my contact after making the case for that rendering being endorsed by a T1 source.

HQ source relented upon me providing more context and in their own time pored over the 2025 4Runner in ways I cannot state here publicly, to protect them from any HQ management personnel who might read this and deduce who did so in that way recently.

There's some truth to the 4R renderings, but the Tacoma is something to really keep in mind according to him. I don't want to speculate on what he means, but makes sense in terms of maybe reducing costs? He answered some other questions for me too.

Well, the 2024 Land Cruiser at least continues to be very shocking (just like GX for others) and lives up to what one of you mentioned many years ago to me in private, that has been dismissed as a unicorn of sorts by other Toyota/Lexus owners or mistakenly referred/expected as the 300-Series.

Whether or not that is in bad form to be discussing "early", I feel that I'm honestly sick of some people missing the obvious. The idea the GX was going to die, should've gone out the door back in 2021. I cannot tell you how annoyed I get, reading obtuse comments away from this forum, asking if it's just a refresh or that is it going to be FWD or unibody. Or is TX replacing the GX?

There's a way to know these things, even if you are not a regular on this forum or an industry professional, who understands how a lot of product planning works. A simple Google search brings up the topic and it's honestly your job to differentiate speculation, uninformed conjecture, and clickbait BS from informed discussion in online spaces.

This forum, is probably amongst the fewest out there who've mastered this skill for knowing anything Japanese brand in advance or at least trusting each other to do so, responsibly. German car forums are the next, which is cake for them, when German automotive marketers favor transparent product planning and development, which allow both the media and public to know their next set of moves years in advance. Despite this, they are very successful in spite of competitive benchmarking risks.

None of us have ever had to repeat our points over and over, except when outside misinformation on rare occasion throws some of us off. Judging by posts on social media, it's sad how people miss what's often right in front of them and act shocked that Lexus has been developing a new GX all this time, plus the return of the Land Cruiser name (as a non-300) and that the 4Runner has a future. I mean, come on man! Folks need to get with it, as nobody on this forum is shocked at that at all, at any of those things.

He says that the 2024 GX will be offered as both a gas GX 550 and as a hybrid, everywhere the GX nameplate will be sold. I haven't seen GX 550h trademarked in North America, but I guess it's coming here too anyway. That was what I needed answered on the GX front, because I don't like asking either of them too many questions, unless it's a mutual exchange.

Please dismiss any media out there, speculating that the Tundra i-Force Max V35A-FTS will be offered in the GX 550. They are not using sensible skills to follow Lexus marketing's existing nomenclature practice, where all hybrids have the h suffix. Economy-focused and performance-focused. Mild hybrid or full blown.

How would Lexus offer a much more powerful
GX 550 with a hybrid powertrain, below the non-hybrid LX 600 at 409 hp 479 lb-ft, when LX 700h will have a variation of V35A-FTS in performance hybrid form? I would think such a similar model would be GX 650h/700h or GX 600h if significantly detuned.

Surprises can happen, but beyond GX 550 a V35A-FTS powered vehicle and GX 550h a T24A-FTS hybrid shared with 4Runner i-Force Max, I'd be damned if Lexus offers a turbo V6 hybrid in the new GX. I'm not immune to mistakes, but the lack of reasoning out these things annoys me greatly.
Amen to all of these things. Well put.
 

NomadDan

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It makes sense to have the V35 non-hybrid and T24 hybrid as the two engine options in the GX. The V35 hybrid rumors never really made sense to me since that’s LX territory.

As far as the Land Cruiser goes, I think Toyota made it pretty clear a while ago that the return of the Land Cruiser was not going to be a 300. I also don’t really think it’s a Prado based vehicle since we have the 4Runner for that. It’s a bit of a mystery to me, but the only thing that makes a little bit of sense to me is if the US spec Land Cruiser ended up being something based on the 70 series chassis, but that definitely fits the unicorn category.

I would be curious to see if the next Prado continues to share a body with the GX. I’m starting to think that the GX may have its own body, but would that mean the Prado and 4Runner share a body, or will they also be different?
 

Carmaker1

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It makes sense to have the V35 non-hybrid and T24 hybrid as the two engine options in the GX. The V35 hybrid rumors never really made sense to me since that’s LX territory.

As far as the Land Cruiser goes, I think Toyota made it pretty clear a while ago that the return of the Land Cruiser was not going to be a 300. I also don’t really think it’s a Prado based vehicle since we have the 4Runner for that. It’s a bit of a mystery to me, but the only thing that makes a little bit of sense to me is if the US spec Land Cruiser ended up being something based on the 70 series chassis, but that definitely fits the unicorn category.

I would be curious to see if the next Prado continues to share a body with the GX. I’m starting to think that the GX may have its own body, but would that mean the Prado and 4Runner share a body, or will they also be different?
Thank you, as it's pretty much LX territory, in LX 700h scheduled for 2025 (according to a source on 300-series hybrid and LX hybrid).


I can only (gladly) explain the bold privately, because I cannot publicize it here nor can forum management do so. I have to go to bed unfortunately, since it is almost 3:00 AM and I have to wake up in a few hours.
 

Gor134

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So, we're getting an LX700h with the facelift, the upcoming LC300 facelift, and US-LC as well.

What are the chances that there are significant upgrades happening to the V35a with these facelifts? I mean, if Lexus is waiting for the facelift to roll out the 700h, is there a chance that the LX600 becomes an LX650, and the GX550/550h both end up getting the V35a instead of just the 550?

It just doesn't make sense to me.. the TX550h+ is a 2.4T PHEV and the TX500h is a 2.4T Hybrid, that should mean the 550h is a different powertrain no?
 

qtb007

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... the GX550/550h both end up getting the V35a instead of just the 550?

It just doesn't make sense to me.. the TX550h+ is a 2.4T PHEV and the TX500h is a 2.4T Hybrid, that should mean the 550h is a different powertrain no?
While the RX500h has the same basic engine as the hypothetical GX550h, there is a very notable difference between them.

The RX500h has a small electric motor between the engine and transmission with a completely divorced rear drive motor (Direct 4). The net system torque is going to be reliant on the how power is split between the front and rear motor. My guess with Direct 4 is that the rear motor gets some prioritization for the power to dampen the FWD feel and it is probably geared in such a way to facilitate that. Front motor's purpose is absorbing energy during braking (and engine), loading it to the battery, that then sends to the rear motor for propulsion.

The GX550h would be like Tundra where the engine, motor, and transmission are all sandwiched together before torque is transferred to the front and rear via transfer case. There isn't a rear motor that have to split the energy from the battery.

I can't find the specs for the motors (torque, power, RPM) between the two different setups, but I think that the way they are oriented in the vehicle really impacts the way Toyota chooses to utilize the electric side.

Just looking at raw specs:
V35 low ouput: 348hp, 405lb-ft
V35 (tundra): 389hp, 479lb-ft
V35 (LX600): 409hp, 479lb-ft
V35 max: 437hp, 583lb-ft
T24 max (FF, Grand Highlander): 362hp, 400lb-ft
T24 max (FR, tacoma): 326hp, 465lb-ft

So, if I had to make a GX550 knowing where the LX600 was (both body on frame, both "truck tunes"), I'd probably land on the V35 at the low output a lot like how the GX460 had 300hp versus the LX570's 380hp. The GX550h with the T24 max powertrain would give up 20hp to the V35 GX550 but pick up 65lb-ft of torque compared to the low output V35. Performance would more or less be the same.
 

ssun30

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Thanks for all the info. Anything news about the Hilux? Will it have a new diesel engine? :D
The 2.8L twin-turbo (similar to F33's two-stage setup) diesel has been in the rumors for a while. They were aiming at least 180kW and 600N.m while complying with Euro7 for the GR Sport while the full GR gets F33. Majority of the lineup will keep the 2.8L single-turbo but with the new 150kW/500N.m tune.

The Hilux GR Sport is also the only product in their lineup to have a slight tune upgrade over the regular trims. I wish they did the same for more F-Sport products on the Lexus side instead of just styling and suspension upgrades.