2023 Toyota Alphard and Vellfire

[Sulu]

The transmission is a bigger problem than the engine. In their DAT GR Yaris press kit they acceidentally show that their regular 8AT has twice the shift lag of the ZF8HP and the DAT and is almost as slow as a manual transmission. In my personal experience this transmission is not only slow but also jerky for the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. I also don't understand why they chose to have a full-time AWD setup instead of on-demand AWD to save fuel for supposedly economy-oriented models.


The only reason the regular turbo gasoline models are produced at all is because they cannot produce enough hybrids for the entire global market. In their own slides the hybrid powertrain is actually cheaper to build by ~10%.

The Camry rental I had two-and-a-half years ago with that 8-speed transmission was terrible. Shifts were rough and the lag on downshifts when you floored the accelerator was absolutely terrible. The Camry Hybrid is so, so much better without the rough-shifting, slow transmission.

 

[Flagship1]

is DAT the same as the direct shift?

 

[carguy420]

When some of their previous gen ATs feel less crappy than the current direct shift 8 speed AT 🤡, so much for all those videos they've released claiming how great this transmission is.

 

[ssun30]

When some of their previous gen ATs feel less crappy than the current direct shift 8 speed AT 🤡, so much for all those videos they've released claiming how great this transmission is.

Their 6 speeds are the peak. Very quick and smooth.

 

[Flagship1]

Their 6 speeds are the peak. Very quick and smooth.

The low speed shift logic in those during low speed traffic is bad. Recently had a loaner gx, and the transmission would slam into gear if one would apply light throttle, let off, and then reapply throttle. The only way around that would be enabling 2nd start or shift the gear selector to the "sports" mode.

Highspeed driving, though shifts like butter.

 

[qtb007]

The only reason the regular turbo gasoline models are produced at all is because they cannot produce enough hybrids for the entire global market. In their own slides the hybrid powertrain is actually cheaper to build by ~10%.

Anecdotally, there are definitely buyers in the US that don't want hybrid. I'm not one of those people, but I know a lot of them that are convinced that the battery is going to bankrupt them while conveniently forgetting that engines and transmissions are also common failure modes and are a much bigger pain to replace than popping a battery out from underneath the back seat. But I think that's definitely part of the equation of why the T24A non-hybrid is offered in Highlander, RX, NX, TX, and Grand Highlander.

I'm not surprised that the A25A hybrid drivetrain is cheaper than the T24A non-hybrid. The transaxle is way simpler from a manpower to build perspective; the stators are all automated manufacturing. There's no transfer case. There's no prop shaft or differential. I'd be surprised if the T24A hybrid is 10% cheaper than the T24A non-hybrid, though. It still requires a clutch/disc style transaxle and the relatively large front motor. They also seem to be coming with pretty powerful rear motors and of course the hybrid battery.

 

[Flagship1]

Anecdotally, there are definitely buyers in the US that don't want hybrid. I'm not one of those people, but I know a lot of them that are convinced that the battery is going to bankrupt them while conveniently forgetting that engines and transmissions are also common failure modes and are a much bigger pain to replace than popping a battery out from underneath the back seat. But I think that's definitely part of the equation of why the T24A non-hybrid is offered in Highlander, RX, NX, TX, and Grand Highlander.

I'm not surprised that the A25A hybrid drivetrain is cheaper than the T24A non-hybrid. The transaxle is way simpler from a manpower to build perspective; the stators are all automated manufacturing. There's no transfer case. There's no prop shaft or differential. I'd be surprised if the T24A hybrid is 10% cheaper than the T24A non-hybrid, though. It still requires a clutch/disc style transaxle and the relatively large front motor. They also seem to be coming with pretty powerful rear motors and of course the hybrid battery.

Part of that no hybrid equation is hybrids command a higher new selling price that most folks are unable to recoup under their ownership length with the fuel savings. In addition with a hybrid you have the complexity of marrying two propulsion systems together, which for the majority of buyers who lease will more then likely never be an issue. However long term owners will probably skew towards gas ownership due to familiarity.