2023 Toyota Alphard and Vellfire

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ssun30

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The LM is bigger, more powerful, more luxurious. The hierarchy is restored.
 

Gecko

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What is the difference between them? Based on video, Vellfire seems sportier and Alphard seems more luxurious?
 

Gor134

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I love the Hyundai style DRLs integrated into the grille design. Looks really good.
 

ssun30

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In Japan they still offer the 2AR-FE+CVT gasoline grade, not even updated with A25+8AT. I understand offering it as a cheap wheelchair access van but no sane person should buy the gasoline version of the Alphard.

 

ssun30

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Another poor showing of performance from a T24-FTS equipped vehicle. Comparisons of Gen 4 2.4T (279PS) vs. Gen 4 2.5 hybrid (250PS) vs. Gen 3 3.5 (300PS) vs. Gen 3 2.5 hybrid (197PS) vs. Gen 2 3.5 (280PS), all weigh ~2200kg and in D mode:
0-60km/h: 3.86s/3.86s/-/3.92s/3.36s
0-100km/h: 8.00s/7.82s/7.06s/8.80s/7.43s
60-100km/h: 5.82s/5.72s/4.73s/6.06s/5.46s

So T24-FTS+8AT is not only slower than 2GR-FKS+8AT but also 2GR-FE+6AT and the A25A-FXS hybrid. There's really no reason to buy any 350 model over the 350h model.
 

carguy420

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It's like the only really good pure ICE powertrain that Toyota has right now is the G16E-GTS, but then again that's a GR engine, not an engine for mainstream Toyotas. A few years ago, some of us were still speculating and thinking this 2.4T is going to a super competitive engine that can easily blow the doors off its predecessor lol.
 

Flagship1

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It's like the only really good pure ICE powertrain that Toyota has right now is the G16E-GTS, but then again that's a GR engine, not an engine for mainstream Toyotas. A few years ago, some of us were still speculating and thinking this 2.4T is going to a super competitive engine that can easily blow the doors off its predecessor lol.
These new powertrains were designed with some benchmarking and understanding of THE B series from bmw. I guess theres more to learn?
 

qtb007

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It's like the only really good pure ICE powertrain that Toyota has right now is the G16E-GTS, but then again that's a GR engine, not an engine for mainstream Toyotas. A few years ago, some of us were still speculating and thinking this 2.4T is going to a super competitive engine that can easily blow the doors off its predecessor lol.
I wager if you did a double blind test without being able to watch the rev counter, 9 out of 10 buyers wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the 2GR and the T24A out on the road. Having driven Highlanders with both engines, I believe that Toyota's intention was masking that this is a turbo engine. It doesn't have the kick that I typically feel in a performance turbo.

The T24A is lighter, more efficient, packaged better, and meets more stringent emission standards than the 2GR. The 2GR FKS only met ULEV70 while the T24A meets ULEV30 just like the A25A hybrid. The 2GR largely dating back to 2005 probably had to be addressed from an emissions perspective. I expect that killing the V6 also simplified crash testing for new models. Those unsexy reasons are likely way the T24A replaced the GR. That said, the A25A hybrid very much overlaps the performance of the T24A while delivering better fuel efficiency. IMO, Toyota knows that there is a segment of buyers that are not ready to take the plunge on the A25A hybrid in a larger vehicle.

The T24A hybrid, IMO, is why the T24A exists overall. It gets rave reviews for being a really nice, smooth, substantial powertrain. Offering the non-hybrid T24A serves some purpose for the buyers that won't buy a hybrid yet and provides some economy of scale. The hybrid version covers the higher end Grand Highlander, TX, RX, Crown, etc. that really can't reasonably be handled with an A25A no matter how many electric motors you throw at it.
 

ssun30

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The transmission is a bigger problem than the engine. In their DAT GR Yaris press kit they acceidentally show that their regular 8AT has twice the shift lag of the ZF8HP and the DAT and is almost as slow as a manual transmission. In my personal experience this transmission is not only slow but also jerky for the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. I also don't understand why they chose to have a full-time AWD setup instead of on-demand AWD to save fuel for supposedly economy-oriented models.

IMO, Toyota knows that there is a segment of buyers that are not ready to take the plunge on the A25A hybrid in a larger vehicle.
The only reason the regular turbo gasoline models are produced at all is because they cannot produce enough hybrids for the entire global market. In their own slides the hybrid powertrain is actually cheaper to build by ~10%.
 

Flagship1

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The transmission is a bigger problem than the engine. In their DAT GR Yaris press kit they acceidentally show that their regular 8AT has twice the shift lag of the ZF8HP and the DAT and is almost as slow as a manual transmission. In my personal experience this transmission is not only slow but also jerky for the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. I also don't understand why they chose to have a full-time AWD setup instead of on-demand AWD to save fuel for supposedly economy-oriented models.


The only reason the regular turbo gasoline models are produced at all is because they cannot produce enough hybrids for the entire global market. In their own slides the hybrid powertrain is actually cheaper to build by ~10%.
Toyota needs to move on the battery supply like yesterday.