Will1991

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Can anyone confirm this is a new option for Lexus?


Maybe a solution to avoid bad publicity as similar to what Tesla had before Sentry Mode about braking the smaller window to gain access to the trunk?
 

ssun30

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More info on the IS "shootingbrake"/wagon:

Apparently, the 3.5IS was meant to be a interim product before another FR platform is developed. I'm still thinking Toyota's future vision of cars is the hybrid sedan-coupe-wagon style we've seen in E-TNGA.

I don't know who carsensor.net "interviewed", but apparently within TMC there is this opinion that GA-L was a failure. It's too heavy because it was designed to handle the power of the V8 twin-turbo engine in development. It makes it very hard to scale down to cheaper and lighter products like IS/RC/GS. So the decision was to develop a new FR platform for future IS/RC/FR SUV products.

While we don't know why they did not mention GA-N, but the situation with GA-N is very similar. Both FR TNGA platforms are by far the worst in the industry in packaging and weight. The S220 Crown is 100 kg heavier than 4GS and barely more interior space than 3IS. A 4IS based on GA-N would weigh close to 1800kg which is almost 200kg heavier than the average competition.

I have serious doubts about this rumor. GA-K is a huge success world-wide, and they just recently made it possible to make a rear-biased car from GA-K using DIRECT4. Not to mention E-TNGA was designed from the outset to be a versatile EV platform with performance in mind. It really makes me think why Lexus still believes there's future in traditional longitudinal FR platform.
 

Gecko

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While I’ve been frustrated with GA-L/GA-N products (or the lack thereof), the points above about the platforms themselves makes a lot of sense. If they were designed to be so sturdy and heavy to support TT V8s... what now if the those engines are cancelled? All of this for nothing? And they aren’t even pushing out those V8s just to be able to complete the product development of vehicles like LC F?

Perhaps this has some hand in the cancellation or extended development of the LF-1 as well. LS and LC are too heavy for what they are, and scaling that down to an IS or RC may just not be possible so perhaps the platform is at a dead end. It seems to me that the next chapter for Toyota is eTNGA and TNGA-F/F1, so I find it hard to believe the powers that be will see fit to re-invest in a new FR architecture after GA-L flopping when we have Direct4, AWD, eTNGA, etc.

So much of this doesn’t add up, and yet it does.
 

maiaramdan

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Flopping in one not mean flopping in all
In other words, the L&N are at least 9 years old maybe even more

If TMC can make a good , sturdy & yet flexible , light weight FR platform, with the new 9 years difference in material revolution they will have a winner in their own hands

A / B / C & K are all approximately the same with different lengths that's the only difference between them, and that's open the way for Toyota to have a Frankenstein cars between any two Yaris GR as the beginning, so TMC only need to replicate this in the FR
 

Levi

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More info on the IS "shootingbrake"/wagon:

Apparently, the 3.5IS was meant to be a interim product before another FR platform is developed. I'm still thinking Toyota's future vision of cars is the hybrid sedan-coupe-wagon style we've seen in E-TNGA.

I don't know who carsensor.net "interviewed", but apparently within TMC there is this opinion that GA-L was a failure. It's too heavy because it was designed to handle the power of the V8 twin-turbo engine in development. It makes it very hard to scale down to cheaper and lighter products like IS/RC/GS. So the decision was to develop a new FR platform for future IS/RC/FR SUV products.

While we don't know why they did not mention GA-N, but the situation with GA-N is very similar. Both FR TNGA platforms are by far the worst in the industry in packaging and weight. The S220 Crown is 100 kg heavier than 4GS and barely more interior space than 3IS. A 4IS based on GA-N would weigh close to 1800kg which is almost 200kg heavier than the average competition.

I have serious doubts about this rumor. GA-K is a huge success world-wide, and they just recently made it possible to make a rear-biased car from GA-K using DIRECT4. Not to mention E-TNGA was designed from the outset to be a versatile EV platform with performance in mind. It really makes me think why Lexus still believes there's future in traditional longitudinal FR platform.

True in every way, but the one fact remains, long front overhangs are simply very ugly, the opposite of stylish, what Lexus tries to do with its design language. Will they shorten the front overhang of the ES or RX to make it good looking?
 

Sulu

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True in every way, but the one fact remains, long front overhangs are simply very ugly, the opposite of stylish, what Lexus tries to do with its design language. Will they shorten the front overhang of the ES or RX to make it good looking?
The ES and RX are transversely-mounted FWD-based cars, with the engine sitting ahead of the front axle. Add the fact that both models use fat V6 engines, and the long front overhang cannot be helped, nor eliminated. The only way to eliminate the long front overhang is to place the engine behind the front axle but that brings with it a problem with AWD models, where the driveshaft to the rear axle would have to be routed under the engine.

And no automaker has placed a transverse engine behind the front axle, with one exception; Toyota placed the transverse engine behind the front axle in the tiny iQ.

Finally, styling is very subjective and personal -- not all people think that long front overhangs are very ugly.
 

Sulu

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If the TNGA platforms are modular, would it be possible to change the highly-adaptable GA-K (shorter length on RAV4 and Harrier/Venza and long length for ES and Sienna, and FWD or AWD) to accept a longitudinally-mounted front powertrain and RWD or AWD?
 

ssun30

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True in every way, but the one fact remains, long front overhangs are simply very ugly, the opposite of stylish, what Lexus tries to do with its design language. Will they shorten the front overhang of the ES or RX to make it good looking?
Their FR cars have very long overhangs anyway. The layout makes no difference.

Actually most new cars including offroad SUVs today have long overhangs. If you ask average people on their opinion few will know what overhang is and some may think short overhang means less crumple zone. The 'long overhang ugly' argument is limited to a small percentage of people mostly online.

If TMC can make a good , sturdy & yet flexible , light weight FR platform, with the new 9 years difference in material revolution they will have a winner in their own hands.
Metallurgy has more or less reached its limit. Most of the rigidity and weight reduction potential have already been exploited by car manufacturers in the 2010s. The only path forward is CFRP which is still prohibitively expensive today. Could they go with full aluminum construction? Sure, others tried but the benefits don't justify the shortcomings, especially the environmental footprint.
 

Gecko

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The ES and RX are transversely-mounted FWD-based cars, with the engine sitting ahead of the front axle. Add the fact that both models use fat V6 engines, and the long front overhang cannot be helped, nor eliminated. The only way to eliminate the long front overhang is to place the engine behind the front axle but that brings with it a problem with AWD models, where the driveshaft to the rear axle would have to be routed under the engine.

Lexus gave up on short front overhangs as they rolled out the more dramatic spindles over the last few years, but the RX and UX are pretty inexcusable and look terribly front heavy. There are plenty of newer FWD cars with decent proportions and it can certainly be done well - much better than Lexus has done. ES is fairly standard for a FWD car and not offensive IMO.

Toyota seems to have cut down on the overhang for their FWD cars and they look much more balanced than Lexus’. I think part of that is because the spindle is more stylized and 3D, starting at the hood’s front cut line and then flowing forward to a horizontal point, then downward. This takes more space to fully shape, especially when you consider incorporating the other elements of the bumper like headlights, fogs, and air inlets, whereas Toyotas are more upright and have less visual heft.

I do hope the next NX and RX will be more balanced and better designed in this area.
 

Will1991

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New rumors on the IS500/ISF?

Captura-de-ecr-2020-12-26-s-22-16-38.png


Source: https://bestcarweb.jp/backnumber/223865
 

Sulu

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Lexus gave up on short front overhangs as they rolled out the more dramatic spindles over the last few years, but the RX and UX are pretty inexcusable and look terribly front heavy. There are plenty of newer FWD cars with decent proportions and it can certainly be done well - much better than Lexus has done. ES is fairly standard for a FWD car and not offensive IMO.

Toyota seems to have cut down on the overhang for their FWD cars and they look much more balanced than Lexus’. I think part of that is because the spindle is more stylized and 3D, starting at the hood’s front cut line and then flowing forward to a horizontal point, then downward. This takes more space to fully shape, especially when you consider incorporating the other elements of the bumper like headlights, fogs, and air inlets, whereas Toyotas are more upright and have less visual heft.

I do hope the next NX and RX will be more balanced and better designed in this area.
Yes, sloping front ends and pointy noses increase the front overhang, especially modern models where crush space over the engine must be maintained.
 

mikeavelli

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Lexus gave up on short front overhangs as they rolled out the more dramatic spindles over the last few years, but the RX and UX are pretty inexcusable and look terribly front heavy. There are plenty of newer FWD cars with decent proportions and it can certainly be done well - much better than Lexus has done. ES is fairly standard for a FWD car and not offensive IMO.

Toyota seems to have cut down on the overhang for their FWD cars and they look much more balanced than Lexus’. I think part of that is because the spindle is more stylized and 3D, starting at the hood’s front cut line and then flowing forward to a horizontal point, then downward. This takes more space to fully shape, especially when you consider incorporating the other elements of the bumper like headlights, fogs, and air inlets, whereas Toyotas are more upright and have less visual heft.

I do hope the next NX and RX will be more balanced and better designed in this area.

Yeah a lot of it is crash standards too. But I agree they can do better on the RX and NX.

The head designer of the Camry is Italian. Explains a lot since Italian cars are usually gorgeous.
 

Motor

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The reality is that the small changes Lexus made to the IS 350 F Sport are the equivalent of taking a half step forward—it's better than before but not up to the standards set by the segment's best. Sedans may be declining, but the competition is still stiff.
 
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Road test editor Chris Walton enjoyed the IS 350 F Sport at the track. "This car is closer to what a 3 Series once felt like than a 3 Series does now," he said. On the figure-eight course, which Walton went around in 25.4 seconds at 0.93 g, the IS turned in crisply, and the limited-slip differential helped put down the power so Walton could slide the car with confidence. "Overall, this is a very nice sports sedan, and the first F Sport I feel made a difference," Walton said. "It feels light and lively without feeling on edge. More of this, please, Lexus."
 

mikeavelli

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Worked with Lexus to bring Atlanta enthusaists together at Caffene and Octane, the biggest monthly show. They brought the modified 2021 IS, a red F-Sport and a friend had his new 2021. It was pretty amazing to see how many people checked them out. People just love the styling. The biggest negative I heard was placement of the touchscreen. It sounds like dealers are moving them swiftly.

A time lapse to show just how much traffic there was.

 

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Gecko

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I really like the concept of obsession - it feels more like the old school Lexus slogan of "Passionate Pursuit of Perfection."

The execution feels a tad "young" to me, but that's probably perfect for the IS.
 
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