2021+ 3rd Generation Lexus IS (300, 350, 500) Megathread

[jelly1928]

*sigh* ^^

Let's do a bet for the sake of bragging rights. I say that the IS won't sell anywhere near close as the TLX. I'm also sure it sold way better than the IS last year (something to the tune of 10k units in favor of the TLX) and will continue to spank the IS this year and next year. Mind you, Acura sold 0 units of the TLX for a few months in 2020 and that's probably due to the supply of the 2020 TLX's dwindling, and thus preparing for 2021 as well as the COVID-19 pandemic beating down manufacturers.

The only OEM's that are in the black this year are TMC and Tesla. Honda/Acura are way smaller than Toyota and have been facing more difficulties this year, and yet the Acura brand is showing signs of regrowth.

Look, I personally love to sh*t on Honda/Acura (especially in F1 as they were dogsh*t), but I will not deny how good they have been performing these last few years with the Civics, the Accords, and Acura's RDX and TLX. The NX is literally a joke and such an embarrassment to the Lexus brand. The IS is still relevant, well because, it's the IS. If Lexus doesn't get their act together then you can say bye-bye to the IS and the RC. Also I wouldn't be surprised if the LF-1 is shelved either. Leaving everything below the midsize cars as garbage, FWD, 4-cylinder hybrid gussied up econoboxes. A 4-cylinder does not work in a luxury car. And oh look, they put a 4-cylinder that has no balls for their ES in order to bring AWD. I know someone in the Canadian market and I was told that the f*cking 2021 4-cylinder AWD ES250 is for the same price as the 2020 ES350. Guess how much more expensive the ES350 became with just one model year... $4,150. I even checked to see if it was true and oh boy it was. And YET I'm also told that old-money East Asian people (this ain't me or them being racist, but an observation that has been made) still buy these piles of crap in droves. I genuinely don't see what these people see in an overpriced 4-cylinder gussied up Avalon that has no balls.

BMW has lost their way and are a joke when you see how legendary they were, but man have they been making some stellar products lately. Mercedes has been doing some truly messed up things lately with their interiors and their infotainment but they're still head over heels better than Lexus. Same thing for Porsche, Acura, Lincoln, and Genesis.

I can't even explain how much in awe I am of the Genesis GV70. It's literally a Korean Macan. WTF. And we have a luxury RAV4 that's not only older, but also objectively worse than the actual RAV4.

no way the IS is out selling the TLX ( or really anyone ). Those numbers are either skewed or made up

 

[yosafbridge]

Review of the 2021 IS by an automotive engineer. It is interesting to see the insights and professional insider perspective he brings to the review. I'm only halfway through watching it and already I found his comments on the shut lines and build quality informative.

 

[bogglo]

I'm surprised you guys are surprised that the IS is out selling the TLX.

 

[James]

Looks sell better than tech it seems.
I would buy one if they were available here in Switzerland.
This is what the original 3IS should have looked like in 2013.

I've been to Switzerland twice (first off most beautiful country in this world honestly it's incredible!) and omg all you see is BMW, Audi, and Benz! Like every car! And it seems like where we were they are like all AMG, M, or S/RS it's crazy. IS doesn't have the power it needs to be but you will turn heads with it as it looks like none of the others! Hopefully you can get one soon!

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

I'm surprised you guys are surprised that the IS is out selling the TLX.

What? It isn't?

 

[Tragic Bronson]

Looks sell better than tech it seems.
I would buy one if they were available here in Switzerland.
This is what the original 3IS should have looked like in 2013.

The IS never looked ugly, but the tech held it back a lot in North America and pushed the decreasing amount of sedan buyers away (Many went to the TM3). But that's more on the mothership than the engineers, since they were the last to adopt Carplay/Android Auto which was a mistake IMHO.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

The IS never looked ugly, but the tech held it back a lot in North America and pushed the decreasing amount of sedan buyers away (Many went to the TM3). But that's more on the mothership than the engineers, since they were the last to adopt Carplay/Android Auto which was a mistake IMHO.

They did it for a good reason. Apple was quick to resolve their issue with Toyota because they both have a shared interest in customer privacy. Android was way more hesitant on Toyota's stringent rules to have a secure environment for the customer. Toyota may have been losing a bit of market share, but Android was losing steam as well and the latter knew how important Toyota is. So they gave in to Toyota's standards.

Cars that had Android Auto were very vulnerable in the eyes of hackers and they were easy to break into. This is also why I have an iPhone, despite how much I despise the fact that it's been made from really cheap Chinese/Indian labour where the people who toil their lives away that build these smartphones are barely meeting their basic needs with the laughable pay they get, I can at least be grateful that Apple really defends the privacy and information of the consumer. This is at least to my knowledge as I would drop Apple if I heard otherwise.

 

[DFGeneer]

I've been to Switzerland twice (first off most beautiful country in this world honestly it's incredible!) and omg all you see is BMW, Audi, and Benz! Like every car! And it seems like where we were they are like all AMG, M, or S/RS it's crazy. IS doesn't have the power it needs to be but you will turn heads with it as it looks like none of the others! Hopefully you can get one soon!

Traffic is horrible though, speed cameras are everywhere and overtaking is regarded as a deadly crime, so all these BMW, Audi and Benzes are mostly for showing off.

The IS never looked ugly, but the tech held it back a lot in North America and pushed the decreasing amount of sedan buyers away (Many went to the TM3). But that's more on the mothership than the engineers, since they were the last to adopt Carplay/Android Auto which was a mistake IMHO.

1st and 2nd generation for me were the pinnacle of automotive design for a compact sedan. The 3rd gen was only about average looking. Now this 3.5 return to being on the top.

 

[spwolf]

Mike is right, it is really emotional response.

For a refresh, they invested a lot in it and it shows.

 

[mikeavelli]

*sigh* ^^

Let's do a bet for the sake of bragging rights. I say that the IS won't sell anywhere near close as the TLX. I'm also sure it sold way better than the IS last year (something to the tune of 10k units in favor of the TLX) and will continue to spank the IS this year and next year. Mind you, Acura sold 0 units of the TLX for a few months in 2020 and that's probably due to the supply of the 2020 TLX's dwindling, and thus preparing for 2021 as well as the COVID-19 pandemic beating down manufacturers.

The only OEM's that are in the black this year are TMC and Tesla. Honda/Acura are way smaller than Toyota and have been facing more difficulties this year, and yet the Acura brand is showing signs of regrowth.

Look, I personally love to sh*t on Honda/Acura (especially in F1 as they were dogsh*t), but I will not deny how good they have been performing these last few years with the Civics, the Accords, and Acura's RDX and TLX. The NX is literally a joke and such an embarrassment to the Lexus brand. The IS is still relevant, well because, it's the IS.

If Lexus doesn't get their act together then you can say bye-bye to the IS and the RC. Also I wouldn't be surprised if the LF-1 is shelved either. Leaving everything below the midsize cars as garbage, FWD, 4-cylinder hybrid gussied up econoboxes. A 4-cylinder does not work in a luxury car. And oh look, they put a 4-cylinder that has no balls for their ES in order to bring AWD.

I know someone in the Canadian market and I was told that the f*cking 2021 4-cylinder AWD ES250 is for the same price as the 2020 ES350. Guess how much more expensive the ES350 became with just one model year... $4,150.

I even checked to see if this was true and oh boy it was. And YET I'm also told that old-money East Asian people (this ain't me or them being racist, but an observation that has been made) still buy these piles of crap in droves. I genuinely don't see what these people see in an overpriced 4-cylinder gussied up Avalon that has no balls.

BMW has lost their way and are a shadow of their when you see how legendary they were in terms of spirited driving, but man have they been making some stellar products lately. Mercedes has been doing some truly messed up things lately with their interiors and their infotainment but they're still head over heels better than Lexus. Same thing for Porsche, Acura, Lincoln, and Genesis.

I can't even explain how much in awe I am of the Genesis GV70. It's literally a Korean Macan. WTF. And we have a luxury RAV4 that's not only older, but also objectively worse than the actual RAV4.

The tlx is supposed to outsell the is. It is their volume sedan. Neither can touch the ES for sales.

 

[Sulu]

I know someone in the Canadian market and I was told that the f*cking 2021 4-cylinder AWD ES250 is for the same price as the 2020 ES350. Guess how much more expensive the ES350 became with just one model year... $4,150.

Yes, the 2021 ES 350 (and ES 300h) Canadian prices have increased by ~$4000. But what you missed is that there has been a shuffling of models.

Whereas in 2020 the ES 350 was the base model, for 2021 the ES 250 AWD is now the base model; the ES 350 and ES 300h have moved up, with previously optional features now standard features in the ES 350 and ES 300h.

2020 ES 300h (base) MSRP: $47,100
2020 ES 300h (with Premium Package) MSRP: $51,200
2021 ES 300h (base, but now includes features that were previously in the Premium Package) MSRP: $51,250

The 2020 Premium Package offered Navigation with 3-year subscription to Enform Destination Assist Connect, Heated Steering Wheel, Intelligent Clearance Sonar, Memory Mirrors, Power Folding Mirrors, Rain Sensing Wipers, Blind Spot Monitor System, all features that I am interested in and now all standard for 2021. Arguably, these features should have been standard on a premium car, and now they are (at least on all but the base ES 250 model).

So the net increase in price is NOT $4150, but only $50.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Yes, the 2021 ES 350 (and ES 300h) Canadian prices have increased by ~$4000. But what you missed is that there has been a shuffling of models.

Whereas in 2020 the ES 350 was the base model, for 2021 the ES 250 AWD is now the base model; the ES 350 and ES 300h have moved up, with previously optional features now standard features in the ES 350 and ES 300h.

2020 ES 300h (base) MSRP: $47,100
2020 ES 300h (with Premium Package) MSRP: $51,200
2021 ES 300h (base, but now includes features that were previously in the Premium Package) MSRP: $51,250

The 2020 Premium Package offered Navigation with 3-year subscription to Enform Destination Assist Connect, Heated Steering Wheel, Intelligent Clearance Sonar, Memory Mirrors, Power Folding Mirrors, Rain Sensing Wipers, Blind Spot Monitor System, all features that I am interested in and now all standard for 2021. Arguably, these features should have been standard on a premium car, and now they are (at least on all but the base ES 250 model).

So the net increase in price is NOT $4150, but only $50.

-__________-

I know that... But you're still paying $4,150 more to get the exact same product...

 

[Gecko]

With the GS out of the way, I assume we will start to see ES options/prices climb over the next few years... it only makes sense. And that's also why it makes sense to keep the IS at the lower end.

 

[Levi]

With the GS out of the way, I assume we will start to see ES options/prices climb over the next few years... it only makes sense. And that's also why it makes sense to keep the IS at the lower end.

But a cheaper IS will lose against the Germans and Genesis but will not appeal to budget customers.

 

[Gecko]

But a cheaper IS will lose against the Germans and Genesis but will not appeal to budget customers.

This is a whole other expanded subject, but I think we are seeing Lexus settle on their "value luxury" status, and IMO, rightfully so. Value is relative but even then, German cars have become OBSCENELY expensive over the last 5-8 years. Lexus still provides a nice luxury car with a lot of the things people care about for a decent price, with more cache than Acura, Infiniti or Cadillac. I think they know they can do this with the shared resources of Toyota, while still creating appealing cars.

There is just no sense in Lexus chasing Mercedes, BMW and Audi anymore.

 

[yosafbridge]

I'm surprised you guys are surprised that the IS is out selling the TLX.

Are the latest sales figures for the Lexus IS and Acura TLX out?

 

[Sulu]

-__________-

I know that... But you're still paying $4,150 more to get the exact same product...

No. That is not correct.

Comparing the 2021 ES 350 base (no optional packages) with the 2020 ES 350 (with Premium Package), feature-for-feature, and the MSRP is exactly the same: $49,250. In the 2020 model, you had to spend $4150 to get the Premium Package but in the 2021 model, the features in the Premium Package are standard equipment; so you spend nothing more to get the same product.

Comparing the 2021 ES 300h base (no optional packages) with the 2020 ES 300h (with Premium Package), feature-for-feature, and the MSRP is only $50 more for the 2021 model (2020 MSRP of $51,200, 2021 MSRP of $51,250). In the 2020 model, you had to spend $4100 to get the Premium Package but in the 2021 model, the features in the Premium Package are standard equipment; so you spend only $50 more (NOT $4150 more) to get the same product.

 

[Sulu]

This is a whole other expanded subject, but I think we are seeing Lexus settle on their "value luxury" status, and IMO, rightfully so. Value is relative but even then, German cars have become OBSCENELY expensive over the last 5-8 years. Lexus still provides a nice luxury car with a lot of the things people care about for a decent price, with more cache than Acura, Infiniti or Cadillac. I think they know they can do this with the shared resources of Toyota, while still creating appealing cars.

There is just no sense in Lexus chasing Mercedes, BMW and Audi anymore.

I think that we will see Lexus settle (back) to their "traditional luxury" status rather than "sport luxury" status which they have been trying to pursue the past few years, starting with the IS F.

I believe that Lexus has realized that the sport luxury market is small and what demand there is for that product can be more than filled by the Germans (and buyers interested in that product are really not looking elsewhere).

I also believe that the traditional premium mid-size (executive) sedan market (Lexus GS, Audi A6, BMW 5-Series, MB E-Class) is now much smaller (buyers migrating to SUVs). Lexus also realizes this, which is why they dropped the GS.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

No. That is not correct.

Comparing the 2021 ES 350 base (no optional packages) with the 2020 ES 350 (with Premium Package), feature-for-feature, and the MSRP is exactly the same: $49,250. In the 2020 model, you had to spend $4150 to get the Premium Package but in the 2021 model, the features in the Premium Package are standard equipment; so you spend nothing more to get the same product.

Comparing the 2021 ES 300h base (no optional packages) with the 2020 ES 300h (with Premium Package), feature-for-feature, and the MSRP is only $50 more for the 2021 model (2020 MSRP of $51,200, 2021 MSRP of $51,250). In the 2020 model, you had to spend $4100 to get the Premium Package but in the 2021 model, the features in the Premium Package are standard equipment; so you spend only $50 more (NOT $4150 more) to get the same product.

But what if one doesn't want to option the car with a premium package? Because there are other packages available as well. This just looks like a cash grab to me.

 

[joepac]

Well... I guess I am not getting the 3.5/4IS, at least not right now. Maybe when the IS500 comes out. Yesterday I took delivery of another car I have loved for years and perhaps the only non Toyota car I would buy again. A 2020 Mazda MX-5 Miata RF GT. This car is so awesome to drive. And it's the last one in this combo in California since 2021 won't have this combo I'm told. Any way I'm stoked. I still have the 2010 IS350 and I'm not done with Lexus.