2021 Acura TLX Type S

[Gecko]

It's funny, but sad.

It is. I think we were all expecting the return of the "Type S" performance of the glory days, and for Acura, it's really more of an incremental step up over base spec/trim. It's strange because it's more powerful than the base car but has less options than the A-Spec. Seems most people agree the TLX A-Spec is still the one to buy.

I think the TLX lineup should have been something like:

Base car: 2.0T, limited to basic trim packages
TLX A-Spec: 350 hp 3.0L V6, can be optioned with Advance, Touring, etc. packages and maybe "Type S appearance package"
TLX Type S: 400-420hp 3.0L V6, dedicated performance car

 

[mikeavelli]

It is. I think we were all expecting the return of the "Type S" performance of the glory days, and for Acura, it's really more of an incremental step up over base spec/trim. It's strange because it's more powerful than the base car but has less options than the A-Spec. Seems most people agree the TLX A-Spec is still the one to buy.

I think the TLX lineup should have been something like:

Base car: 2.0T, limited to basic trim packages
TLX A-Spec: 350 hp 3.0L V6, can be optioned with Advance, Touring, etc. packages and maybe "Type S appearance package"
TLX Type S: 400-420hp 3.0L V6, dedicated performance car

Nailed it….
It’s like Acura targeted cars from the year 2008….probably the most teased most overhyped worst performing slug in recent memory with the worst MPG…but let’s be honest for their fanbase this is fast lol.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Genesis is about 400lbs lighter, similar to the S4, and it shows. At this point, I'd be interested to see the TLX Type S and IS 350 F SPORT square up.

OH NO. That's bad. That's REALLY bad.

 

[Gecko]

I feel like I read somewhere that the ILX is coming back, is that right? Two sedan strategy because the ILX strangely did really well once it was refreshed?

Or is Acura only doing TLX going forward?

Just thinking about positioning of engines and such and how they fill out the lineup.

Edit: Seems so:

 

[Gor134]

I feel like I read somewhere that the ILX is coming back, is that right? Two sedan strategy because the ILX strangely did really well once it was refreshed?

They really dug themselves into a hole with the Type S positioning. The current ILX is basically a tarted up previous gen Civic Si. The next gen would have to use the next gen Civic Si powertrain, leaving the Type S to use the Type R powertrain potentially slightly detuned? And this would come very close if not beating the TLX Type S in terms of performance.

 

[carguy420]

I find it really funny that during the era where high performance, high revving naturally aspirated engines are the norm Honda was able to build very competitive engines that also sounds very good, but now in this turbo era their engines sound worse than their competitors and their performance is nothing to write home about, maybe except for the engine in the FK8 CTR but that car sounds like vacumm cleaner.

It seems like Honda has truly given up on putting any decent effort to develop their engines, the exact opposite of what they used to do.

 

[Will1991]

I find it really funny that during the era where high performance, high revving naturally aspirated engines are the norm Honda was able to build very competitive engines that also sounds very good

I think this was the main issue with Honda/Accura... People loved them due to the engine high-revving nature like B16/18, K20/24, F20/22 associated to a lightweight car…

They just lost their “mojo” … It’s like if Subaru started to build FWD with 4-cylinder inline WRX’s…

 

[mikeavelli]

It’s the slowest, worst performing, lowest power, worst mpg and heaviest car in class. What a feat.

280hp to the wheels. A slug.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

It’s the slowest, worst performing, lowest power, worst mpg and heaviest car in class. What a feat.

280hp to the wheels. A slug.

It's a permanent AWD system though. Drivetrain losses are larger than if a RWD or FWD car were to dyno.

I'm merely being unbiased here.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

It's a permanent AWD system though. Drivetrain losses are larger than if a RWD or FWD car were to dyno.

I'm merely being unbiased here.

All true, and the handling numbers are very good (SH-AWD is well proven). But at the same time Acura positioned this as a performance car, and it doesn't really back that up.

 

[Gecko]

Yeah, 20% parasitic drivetrain loss is pretty normal for AWD, so that's about what I expected.

I think the difference is that the Germans underrate everything, seemingly compensating for such losses -- and then some. The Japanese don't.

It's not a direct comparison, but the 2020 Supra was using the older/downrated "335hp" B58 and dynoed at 340hp, then the 2021 Supra 3.0 with the "382hp" B58d dynoed at 388hp. I assume the M340i with B58d would be somewhere close to that same 388hp number at wheels, even with AWD. Thats a ~100hp smackdown on the Type S.

Does anyone know what the 2UR-GSE dynos at?

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Yeah, 20% parasitic drivetrain loss is pretty normal for AWD, so that's about what I expected.

I think the difference is that the Germans underrate everything, seemingly compensating for such losses -- and then some. The Japanese don't.

It's not a direct comparison, but the 2020 Supra was using the older/downrated "335hp" B58 and dynoed at 340hp, then the 2021 Supra 3.0 with the "382hp" B58d dynoed at 388hp. I assume the M340i with B58d would be somewhere close to that same 388hp number at wheels, even with AWD. Thats a ~100hp smackdown on the Type S.

Does anyone know what the 2UR-GSE dynos at?

Toyota and Lexus does underrate their V6 and V8 engines AFAIK. Not to the level of the Germans but they do underrate it for sure.

The GS F (with 467 horsepower) dynoed around 385-390 horsepower to the rear wheels.

The IS F (with 416 horsepower) dynoed around 350-360 horsepower to the rear wheels.

Also note that a very weird ability that Toyota V6 and V8 engines have is that after some time being driven, they start to unlock more and more power. It's very bizarre.

 

[bogglo]

Toyota and Lexus does underrate their V6 and V8 engines AFAIK. Not to the level of the Germans but they do underrate it for sure.

The GS F (with 467 horsepower) dynoed around 385-390 horsepower to the rear wheels.

The IS F (with 416 horsepower) dynoed around 350-360 horsepower to the rear wheels.

Also note that a very weird ability that Toyota V6 and V8 engines have is that after some time being driven, they start to unlock more and more power. It's very bizarre.

You are correct in the hands of a capable driver; Toyota cars will surprise you with how capable they are. I used to own a 2007 Lexus GS 350 (it is my favorite Lexus to date. The reason I wanted a 2013 GS350 badly because it has the same 6 speed, but I had to settle for 2014), and I raced a 2017 M3 from LA to San Diego, and he was surprised on how I was able to keep up with him. Although, the next day, I needed a new set of brakes. I have come to understand the transmission tuning is the foremost thing that holds back their cars. 2007 IS 350 is a testament to that fact. Anyone that has ever driven the 6 speed transmission and knows how it behaves and has figured out to use it will take it over the 8 speed. Especially knowing that it will never upshift for you until you do it yourself and you can drop it to 2nd gear. That's what @mikeavelli is noticing in the RC350 he has with him. I wanted a 13 GS 350 so bad, but the 14 is undergoing training till I finally get that GSF.

 

[mikeavelli]

Really honest review. They bring up a few things:
- up to 8/10th it’s fine
- pretty poor at the track
- too heavy, brakes are meh, tires are too
- not fast
- acura marketing needs to stop
- S4 kills it so the initial videos by others was B.S

 

[Gecko]

Really honest review. They bring up a few things:
- up to 8/10th it’s fine
- pretty poor at the track
- too heavy, brakes are meh, tires are too
- not fast
- acura marketing needs to stop
- S4 kills it so the initial videos by others was B.S

Came here to post this too. Great review!

 

[carguy420]

Not about the TLX Type S but this is how disconnected Honda is from reality, hiring an F1 driver to review a HR-V, a freaking crossover with zero performance credentials, like seriously WTF.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Not about the TLX Type S but this is how disconnected Honda is from reality, hiring an F1 driver to review a HR-V, a freaking crossover with zero performance credentials, like seriously WTF.

NOOOOOO WHY DO THEY DO MY BOY PIERRE LIKE THIS... 😭😭😭😭😭😭

 

[Tragic Bronson]

NOOOOOO WHY DO THEY DO MY BOY PIERRE LIKE THIS... 😭😭😭😭😭😭

This was following behind, and obviously, it might be in his contract

 

[CRSKTN]

 

[ssun30]

Toyota also marketed the Hilux with Fernando Alonso, but he actually drove a Hilux in Dakar...