2021+ 3rd Generation Lexus IS (300, 350, 500) Megathread

[Gecko]

I generally agree with the “enthusiasts don’t represent buyers“ rationale but I also think the IS consumer is a bit different. We are not talking about RX, NX or ES where being quiet, having a leather interior, and being well priced are their top shopping criteria. Most of the people I know who have bought or leased an IS (1) did so after extensively test driving the competition and (2) generally like to drive and wanted something “sporty.” Remember that most ISs sold are F Sport... these people appreciate “sportiness.”

I’m “that guy” in my social circles who people come to for car shopping help and EVERY single person I know with an IS 350 has asked me at some point over the last two years when they are going to update the engine. Most of them really love the car and have leased twice during this generation, or bought one and have now gotten to the point of being ready for an upgrade. These people bought into the IS’ promise of performance originally and are waiting for Lexus to deliver the next chapter.

The two other most common complaints I hear for the IS, including 250/200t/300, are poor MPG and lack of AC/AA. It’s great that infotainment was fixed but poor MPG is going to be an issue for real shoppers, and many are going to be turned off by the idea of buying/leasing the same (thirsty/down on hp) engine for the second or third time. These are not Camry shoppers - people are pretty aware of what they are doing and how the car is different, or not.

I have never heard someone complain about how the car looks.

Lexus will lose a number of people because of the repeat engines, lack of MPG improvement and similar interior. Will some stick around because they love the design? Yes, I think so. But we go back to this point about hurting your brand and sending loyal owners/shoppers elsewhere when you don’t offer them anything truly new.

 

[spwolf]

There's the IS300h which they'll launch in other markets (that should help with emissions?)

And while Lexus does have a strong record sales across Europe in 2019, the IS Hybrid sold 3,475, ES hybrid 4,292 (roughly 3/4 of the ES) GS hybrid 35 and LS hybrid 200 so a total of 8,002 hybrid sedans which the IS is around 43% of those. That's a huge chunk of the sedans...

However, compared to SUV, sedans are really behind:

UX Hybrid 19,056

NX hybrid 17,391

RX Hybrid 6,948

Total of 43,395 hybrid SUVs.

Actually, Lexus sold 87k units in Europe, including Russia. Only 3500 of those were IS.
If I remember correctly, ES came to Europe in April/May period, and it is really expensive vehicle. Still sold almost twice as IS (which is discounted and has many offers).

We talked about this previously, but Europe is getting serious about taxing manufacturers on average emissions based on CAFE.
With stricter WLTP and new rules in 2021, manufacturers have to pay something like €95 for each g of CO2 over 95g. So basically something like IS300h would cost them at least $5000 in extra taxes. Yes, there are some super credit systems and vehicles like Rav4 Prime and UX300e will help but I am sure they want to use those for profitable vehicles like RX.

One of the reason for ES in Europe might be its upcoming PHEV version as well, which would help with fleet overall emissions and reducing these extra charges. It is estimated that all manufacturers together might pay €33 billion in 2021 for this.

Anyway, with all of this together, it is hard for IS to really compete here. A4/3/C are Camry of Europe, with pricing that is actually on par with European base Camry.


Here are full European sales for 2019:

Toyota Motor Europe outperforms market and posts strong growth in 2019, reaching 5.3% market share

Toyota brand passes 1 million sales for the first time since 2008 Lexus increases 14.5% to a record 87,000 sales marking sixth successive year of European growth Hybrid electric vehicles make up 52% of total sales and 63% in West Europe

newsroom.toyota.eu

.

 

[spwolf]

I generally agree with the “enthusiasts don’t represent buyers“ rationale but I also think the IS consumer is a bit different. We are not talking about RX, NX or ES where being quiet, having a leather interior, and being well priced are their top shopping criteria. Most of the people I know who have bought or leased an IS (1) did so after extensively test driving the competition and (2) generally like to drive and wanted something “sporty.” Remember that most ISs sold are F Sport... these people appreciate “sportiness.”

I’m “that guy” in my social circles who people come to for car shopping help and EVERY single person I know with an IS 350 has asked me at some point over the last two years when they are going to update the engine. Most of them really love the car and have leased twice during this generation, or bought one and have now gotten to the point of being ready for an upgrade. These people bought into the IS’ promise of performance originally and are waiting for Lexus to deliver the next chapter.

Hi! I am that guy too.

I think the fact that IS is attracting different/younger buyer brought this huge facelift into life.
As to the engines/interior, I am sure that people who have owned IS, would like some completely new version of it, otherwise it makes no sense.

Not sure how much gas mileage matters in 2020 though. For instance, why wouldnt RX be punished in sales for not having high output 4cly turbo? Or NX? (didnt check but I am sure mpg is not as good as with some competitors).

There is also big difference in 2GR MPG in Camry vs IS - 25% according to fuelly... should they gear it differently?
Probably not.

If you owned IS350 before, you would really have to be a huge Lexus fan to own this version of it as well. I think the same of any small/big facelift.

Only really different thing they could do would be to have IS500, and I still think it could be coming in the way they formulated the answer to Kevin's question where he asked about IS-F and question was repeated as "higher output IS version" - which is in line with rumor that there will be new IS500 but not new IS-F.

In Europe, it is different. IS was bought for first 2 years when it was completely different than anything else on the market. Then the same buyer would move to something else that it is completely different (not a Lexus). RX, then NX and UX are first vehicles that actually have a real following that stays, so I can see why Lexus Europe did not care about IS.

 

[spwolf]

Since Lexus launched, the tactile feel, behavior, and execution for each model has been driven by the vision and efforts of the Chief Engineer. Moving forward, the efforts of the CE will be focused on elevating the vehicles to a new standard of performance and handling as developed by Lexus International President Koji Sato and Chief Branding officer Akio Toyoda. The ultimate goal is to deliver a new generation of Lexus vehicles that is more balanced, refined in control, and confident than ever before. Linear steering, brake responses, and optimized handling with exceptional ride quality is the result of heightened focus on tuning of the chassis and its interactions with the control surfaces through diligent evaluation at a test facility unlike any other.

By establishing a uniform Lexus Driving Signature across the entire lineup, the hope is to continue propelling the brand’s evolution and reinforce its identity in the luxury space. This cultural shift within Lexus product development builds on the learnings and improvements seen on the F brand cars, and the latest models of the flagship vehicles (LC, LS, LX) that involve an “Always On” philosophy for continual, running enhancement. Over the past 30 years, Lexus has been defined by the detail-oriented and thoughtful nature of its products. The latest IS represents the first step down a path that has evolved into a uniquely Lexus tarmac testbed that will affect the trajectory of every Lexus product that comes next.

literally everyone skipped over this - IS actually is ushering Lexus into completely new era.
Lexus is completely changing how they are developing vehicles, and making them less differentiated based on chief engineer personal feeling, but having a standard that all cars will adhere to.

This is very different from usual Toyota vehicle development, where marketing group finds out customer preferences, and Chief Engineer decides what to do as project leader. Which then ends up with cars that might feel completely different from each other.

Another thing that everyone glossed over was LSS 2.5+ - new IS is first vehicle to have it. And it is really good of them to keep continually advancing safety systems, year after year, they are becoming a clear leader on this front.

 

[phoenixss]

This isn't even worth an in depth analysis, Lexus dragged this for 7 model year on the previous Intelligent Sport model (IS) and then has the guts to put out a lipstick refresh called New IS !!!! with "maturation of driving dynamics". Give me a F'n break and they think we will spend time reading the review on this.. Nope sir. my second comment on this thread as im disappointed on the sleezy tactics. I'm changing my Lexus next year or two if they do this to the RX I'm out to German, Korean or even Tesla

 

[Gecko]

Hi! I am that guy too.

I think the fact that IS is attracting different/younger buyer brought this huge facelift into life.
As to the engines/interior, I am sure that people who have owned IS, would like some completely new version of it, otherwise it makes no sense.

Not sure how much gas mileage matters in 2020 though. For instance, why wouldnt RX be punished in sales for not having high output 4cly turbo? Or NX? (didnt check but I am sure mpg is not as good as with some competitors).

There is also big difference in 2GR MPG in Camry vs IS - 25% according to fuelly... should they gear it differently?
Probably not.

If you owned IS350 before, you would really have to be a huge Lexus fan to own this version of it as well. I think the same of any small/big facelift.

Only really different thing they could do would be to have IS500, and I still think it could be coming in the way they formulated the answer to Kevin's question where he asked about IS-F and question was repeated as "higher output IS version" - which is in line with rumor that there will be new IS500 but not new IS-F.

In Europe, it is different. IS was bought for first 2 years when it was completely different than anything else on the market. Then the same buyer would move to something else that it is completely different (not a Lexus). RX, then NX and UX are first vehicles that actually have a real following that stays, so I can see why Lexus Europe did not care about IS.

So we are making the same point: With this refresh and a 7-10+ year model run, it does not seem Lexus cares about retaining IS customers because they provided nothing to actually "upgrade" to.

To me, that is sad.

When 70% of luxury cars are leased on a 3 year term, how do you expect people to re-lease the same car 2-3 times with no meaningful change? They won't, then they go elsewhere, and they don't come back. This is where Lexus is very badly broken. And you cannot think that an IS shopper has much interest in RX, NX, UX or ES - IS is a fundamentally different type of car.

Since 2014, Lexus has sold more than 200k IS in the US (and that doesn't include the 2014 model year IS sold in 2013). Yes the market is different now, but are we just OK with Lexus saying there is no value in trying to keep and even upgrade 200k buyers in the Lexus family? That is more sales than some entire luxury brands over the same time. It seems to me that they are content with letting these people go. When you calculate lifetime customer value of bringing someone in through an entry level product and then upgrading them to more expensive models over time, that is hundreds of millions of dollars lost.

 

[GNS]

Exterior looks great, except for a few missing elements (ie. rising body line that the 3IS had). No real complaints, it looks modern and very sharp. Diffuser probably shouldn't be gloss black, as that will get all scratched to hell in no time, but whatever.

Interior is a downgrade because of all that extra red, the circular vents that look out of place (take a look at the 3IS' vents, which have a cohesive horizontal design), and the gloss black HVAC cover. If I could fix one thing about the interior, it would be to revert all that red back to what the 2020 IS had (which were just seats, and the upper door panels / door arm rest).

Powertrain is a letdown. The 2GR-FKS is a great V6, so why not push its envelope of performance some more? Is it because of emissions or something? Where is the V35A? Where is the V8? They know that the 2GR has been in use since 2006, right?

 

[krew]

Say what you will about the new 2021 Lexus IS , but there’s no denying the appeal of the sedan’s design — here’s a few images looking at the car in detail:

...

Continue reading...

 

[ssun30]

I would call myself an enthusiast but I am one of the few (if not only one) to believe a completely new IS based on GA-N would be a complete waste of money and resources. Low ROI and not future-proof that will become obsolete in the very near future. Maybe Lexus thought the same, or maybe they just don't care.

I said this is the absolute lowest day since sticky throttle because everything from now on WILL get better, simply because the last product they could possibly refresh is just refreshed.

Powertrain is a letdown. The 2GR-FKS is a great V6, so why not push its envelope of performance some more? Is it because of emissions or something? Where is the V35A? Where is the V8? They know that the 2GR has been in use since 2006, right?

The 2GR's power could not be increased further as it is already approaching the limit of a daily-drivable engine that also complies with emissions. The 8GR-FKS gained mere 7hp before they had to revert back to 311hp tune for emissions in China. To improve the performance they simply need to raise the redline from 6800rpm to above 7200 to better take advantage of its power band. But Lexus is obsessed with reliability and always handicap their engines with premature shifts in the transmission software.

The 2GR-FKS has not been in use since 2006 because it would be labelled as a redesigned engine by other manufacturers. The change from FSE to FKS is bigger than, say, from N55 to B58. It still is the most efficient naturally-aspirated V6 engine with highest specific output in its class. The problem is not with the IS350 but rather the lack of something above it.

 

[ssun30]

The exterior design is phenomenal. Imagine that body on a BEV platform. People would flock to buy it compared to all those weird 'soap bar' style BEV popularized by Tesla.

 

[Tragic Bronson]

2021 Lexus IS Gets Sporty Redesign, Handling Upgrades

The updated sports sedan again comes in IS300 and IS350 forms and should reach dealers this fall.

www.caranddriver.com

After a high in 2007, U.S. sales for the Lexus IS peaked in 2014, the year following a full overhaul of the sedan, when 51.358 were sold. Since then, sales have fallen precipitously, with only 22,927 sold in 2018 and 14,920 in 2019. With German, Italian, American, Korean, and other auto brands all showing no sign of relenting in this segment, a redesign was needed, but it remains to be seen if this update will be enough to regain lost market share.

 

[internalaudit]

Any reason besides cost savings why many luxury BEVs out there have more of a minimalist interior? Don't tell me they are just joining the Tesla bandwagon?

 

[spwolf]

2021 Lexus IS Gets Sporty Redesign, Handling Upgrades

The updated sports sedan again comes in IS300 and IS350 forms and should reach dealers this fall.

www.caranddriver.com

btw, US market for small luxury sedan dropped by 50% between 2015 and 2019, I was checking the numbers the other day. So there is no way of IS or any other vehicle regaining their previous sales, at least not over the course of generation (for instance 3 is doing great as it is new model but C class dropped sales 54%, A4 33% last quarter.)

 

[internalaudit]

Only the Tesla Model 3 is kicking ass in the segment lol.

Toyota must have realized that and will focus on perfecting its battery technology first and foremost.

 

[spwolf]

Only the Tesla Model 3 is kicking ass in the segment lol.

Toyota must have realized that and will focus on perfecting its battery technology first and foremost.

but that is because Model 3 is unique proposition - people are not buying it because they want small sedan (and it is not a luxury sedan anyway), but because they want affordable Tesla EV.

So for instance this will be tested with Model Y - I am pretty sure it will extend the segment, instead of simply stealing sales (which is what it feels like Model 3 is doing, while it is not - it is carving its own market).

Nobody expect Rav4 or X3 sales to drop because Model Y.

 

[internalaudit]

but that is because Model 3 is unique proposition - people are not buying it because they want small sedan (and it is not a luxury sedan anyway), but because they want affordable Tesla EV.

So for instance this will be tested with Model Y - I am pretty sure it will extend the segment, instead of simply stealing sales (which is what it feels like Model 3 is doing, while it is not - it is carving its own market).

Nobody expect Rav4 or X3 sales to drop because Model Y.

View attachment 4114

Good point.

The Model SR+ in Canada is still very compelling because it's one of the better handling, better acceleration, better driving range BEV out here and there's a $5k rebate and the price had been lowered to $53k last month. If one isn't coming from sports sedans like the 340i or C400 or S4 (with Sports Differential) and one didn't care about the interior and was okay with the cargo space and also potentially crazy repair costs (no Right to Repair), then the TM3 would almost be heaven-sent.

I am not coming from any expensive sports sedan but I sure know torque vectoring will make BEVs a lot more nimble and I do know battery technology improvements are just two to four years away so I'm willing to wait things out. My father did allow me to drive his past MB cars though but at that time, I just drove them around and didn't care much about cars.

I am one of the odd ones here because I would shop based on features / price range instead of car type (sedan or CUV will be fine).

So, for me, I wouldn't mind a CUV/SUV BEV with rear wheel torque vectoring and solid state battery as long as it has ample winter driving distance though I would much prefer a sportier sedan. The advantages of a CUV BEV is numerous (space, winter ground clearance, wife factor) though since charging cost at night would make it so much cheaper to drive than even a PHEV or HEV CUV.

With those two requirements, I also need to seat four adults comfortably even though one of my children is only 6 y.o.

Any BEV with torque vectoring will 99% of the time be sporty enough and since I usually keep my cars much longer than the average, I want durability and safety with newer battery tech.

I'm still waiting for a Lexus or Acura BEV, hopefully by 2024. If by 2026, there are still none that have electric torque vectoring (rear axle) and SSB (or more durable/safer battery tech) for $80k CAD or below, I will shop other makes too or buy a nice used Li-ion BEV like the Taycan 4S or the e-tron S version. Definitely something with torque vectoring at least as instantaneous torque and fuel savings are great but are not enough in my books to dump my reliable enough ICEVs and HEVs for BEVs.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

I hope Lexus will use this IS design as a basis for the true next-gen IS. This IS is the purest expression of the design language Lexus brought out with the LF-Gh back in 2011. It’s sad that it’s only being realized almost 10 years later.

We've definitely seen continuous improvement; at their introductions the LC, 5LS, and 7ES were all pretty widely considered to be the best version to date of the Lexus design language. Because of that, I'm very optimistic about the LS refresh and the LF-1.

 

[internalaudit]

I watched the clip (this morning around 4 am haha) with the Lexus Marketing lead and Townsend Bell (I actually though it was a dealership and not a prominent race car driver when I kept seeing the name on Lexus Youtube videos!) and when they were asked about the ISF, the Marketing lead said she is not privy to discuss the matter.

I think the ISF will likely come before the 4IS or before the IS ceases to exist.

If the questions were pre-selected, why would they include the question about the ISF, if it isn't going to be remotely relevant a year or two down the road, right? Around 13 minutes into the video is when the journalist from Univision asks about the ISF.

 

[Jezza819]

I thought V6 needs f sport, but f sport is available across models.

This is what I was going off of and I thought I had read the same thing elsewhere.

https://www.motor1.com/news/428878/2021-lexus-is-debut-details-specs/

"And now buyers will have to upgrade to the 350 model if they want the F Sport trim; Lexus isn't offering an IS 300 F Sport with this new model. "

 

[ACEtheOG]

If the questions were pre-selected, why would they include the question about the ISF, if it isn't going to be remotely relevant a year or two down the road, right? Around 13 minutes into the video is when the journalist from Univision asks about the ISF.

I keep telling myself this. Only time will tell.