2019 Toyota Avalon Master Thread

ssun30

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You're not kidding. Hyundai Azera is already gone from the U.S. market. Chevrolet Impala is widely expected to die at the end of this generation. Ditto Ford Taurus (although they do have the option of bringing in the newer and different Chinese version). And a recent Bloomberg article suggests that Chrysler 300 and Buick LaCrosse have iffy prospects as well. Perhaps the full-size sedan's future is akin to that of the minivan, as a segment with a diminished but profitable group of players.
Just follow what Ford did: throw them at China. Yes the streets are cramped, parking spaces are tiny, highways are congested, but people buy full-size sedans regardless. The XTS/Taurus/Continental are big hits. The middle class millenials grew up seeing 'filthy rich' chauffeured in Cadillacs and Lincolns and now they want their own.

I guess that's why some companies still keep their full-size sedan program alive. However most of them just stretch the mid-size sedan, add the mandatory 'L', and call it a day. In fact I believe Lexus should not miss the opportunity to stretch the ES and add a four-seat 'executive' trim to have remote chance of competing against very strong Lincoln/Cadillac/Volvo offerings. If the Camry can have a four-seater version, there's no reason ES couldn't have one.

TBH I was once seriously tempted by the Ford EcoBoost V6s (which are unnecessarily overpowered) because they offer a lot of horsepower and AWD at a bargain. But brand loyalty keeps me waiting for the 7ES till this date.
 
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CIF

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The interior and exterior look pretty good, but one thing I absolutely cannot get over...the front end.

No matter how I try and look at it or wrap my head around it, that front bumper is absolutely terrible. It's a complete style mismatch for the rest of the car and ruins IMHO an otherwise classy and modern exterior. It's slightly less offensive with the horizontal slats, but the mesh version of the front bumper/grille is horrendous. What was Toyota thinking? It just looks way too extreme and overdone compared to the rest of the exterior. There's also a distinct lack of plastic in that front area due to such a massive grille. This is a worrying trend now, combined with the overdone front ends on the refreshed 4GS and 3IS.

What's also disappointing is if you look closely, much of the mesh/grille area is blocked off. Most of it is not even functional! Only a small part of the grille area is actually open for airflow.

It looks like the bean counters had a lot of say on this front bumper, because this massive grille and resulting lack of plastic on the front bumper must be saving a lot of plastic per bumper for the bean counters. I can only imagine what a huge hassle cleaning that grille will be as well. I also worry how well it will perform in crash ratings, including low-speed bumper tests.
 
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ssun30

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The 5th gen Avalon has been confirmed for production in China. FAW/Toyota posted bidding requests online for production equipment since July 2017 on Project 480B under the name "Asian Dragon". "Asian Dragon" is the phoenetic transcription of "Avalon" in Mandarin which could be the best vehicle name ever since we claim ourselves as "Descendants of the Dragon" (and let's pretend the Asian Dragon is totally not born and raised in USA). An analogy would be a car called "American Freedom".
 

spwolf

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It looks like the bean counters had a lot of say on this front bumper, because this massive grille and resulting lack of plastic on the front bumper must be saving a lot of plastic per bumper for the bean counters. I can only imagine what a huge hassle cleaning that grille will be as well. I also worry how well it will perform in crash ratings, including low-speed bumper tests.

lol, you do realize this is only a sport version bumper, regular versions full bumper with only smaller area for cooling.



both versions are likely far more expensive to produce than previous single mold bumpers, I bet sport version bumper is actually most expensive to produce.
 

CIF

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lol, you do realize this is only a sport version bumper, regular versions full bumper with only smaller area for cooling.


both versions are likely far more expensive to produce than previous single mold bumpers, I bet sport version bumper is actually most expensive to produce.
The "non sport" regular bumper has the same massive frontal opening in the bumper. It's simply more aesthetically pleasing due to the horizontal slats.

Maybe they might be more expensive to produce, or maybe not. We're both guessing at this point. However historically and culturally, Toyota mostly has aimed for decreased production costs over time, not increased production costs. The fundamental reasons why Toyota moved to TNGA is more flexibility in manufacturing, and related to that much lower production costs due to the nature of TNGA (freeing up budgets for other things). I would be very surprised personally if these bumpers are more expensive to produce than Gen 4 Avalon bumpers.
 

spwolf

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The "non sport" regular bumper has the same massive frontal opening in the bumper. It's simply more aesthetically pleasing due to the horizontal slats.

Maybe they might be more expensive to produce, or maybe not. We're both guessing at this point. However historically and culturally, Toyota mostly has aimed for decreased production costs over time, not increased production costs. The fundamental reasons why Toyota moved to TNGA is more flexibility in manufacturing, and related to that much lower production costs due to the nature of TNGA. I would be very surprised personally if these bumpers are more expensive to produce than Gen 4 Avalon bumpers.
It is a lot more complicated design that is certainly more expensive to produce than a single mold bumpers of old... as to the TNGA and costs, thats related to speed, flexibility and less capital cost, not cheaper plastic bumper... and they are putting those cheaper costs into higher equipment, ie better product. Thats how they can do LED headlights on every Corolla that KIA cant, or complicated moldings for bumpers and sides that most of their competition does not do or TSS being standard on most of their vehicles, etc, etc.

And yeah, no, regular bumper does not have a big opening, except for the middle area, you can see that the sides are actually closed with another bar under it... in fact, even sport bumper might be mostly closed inside due to mpg advantage that closed bumpers make...

yeah, I just checked it, it is all filled out.

https://s1.paultan.org/image/2018/01/Toyota-Avalon-2019-Touring-BM-9.jpg

it is only the regular middle part thats letting the air through. And yeah, it is very complicated design as you can see, and there is no maybe if it costs more than old ones.

In any case, I was just responding to the ridiculous idea that their design is driven by bean counters wanting to save 0.05$ in plastic bumper.
 

spwolf

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hah, looking at big pic, it seems only small area around Toyota logo is actually letting the air in, all the rest of the bumper is actually completely closed with another plastic piece behind the grille.

https://s1.paultan.org/image/2018/01/2019-Toyota-Avalon-Touring-3-e1516078301748.jpg

This is done for MPG reasons, it is better aero and hybrids these days have electronic shutters behind the grille to be able to close it completely when needed.
 

mikeavelli

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That front grill is just massive....I think if it had a spindle it would be gorgeous..note how the hood line goes into the trunk....
 

ssun30

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Maybe they might be more expensive to produce, or maybe not.
The answer is no. In the interview I posted somewhere else on the forum, the president of FAW-Toyota said the Avalon bumper only takes 23 seconds to make, compared to industry average of 51 seconds, which he was deeply impressed by. Such is the essence of TNGA, everything is made much faster than before; that's why they can afford to make their designs so much more complex.
 

Gecko

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Has anyone noticed that the new Avalon comes with double stitched leather? You can't even get that on an LS, LC or LX anymore... Lexus stopped doing it a few years ago.

Interesting move by Toyota.
 

spwolf

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Has anyone noticed that the new Avalon comes with double stitched leather? You can't even get that on an LS, LC or LX anymore... Lexus stopped doing it a few years ago.

Interesting move by Toyota.
Pics? I like new Avalon.
 

spwolf

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they are completely different interiors, which is always nice - as Toyota mentioned in their TNGA release info, you wont be able to see any part sharing. I like that Avalon's interior is more playful, while ES is more luxurious.

I am attaching red interior from F-Sport, kind of shows those very nice seats much better. UX is also getting really nicely designed seats.
In fact, huge screen from LS, then combo meter from LS, and steering wheel from LS, LFA inspired top of the dashboard, LC handles, F seats.

Another thing that Toyota mentioned for TNGA is that savings would allow them to add higher level stuff into more affordable vehicles, and I believe it was in C-HR presentation that head engineer mentioned that they were able to get higher class seats due to the TNGA.



 

ssun30

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Current gen F-Sport seats on the IS are wonderful, almost like they were taken from a GT.
 
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