2017 Lincoln MKZ, Buick LaCrosse......quite an improvement for both.

[mmcartalk]

Now mmcartalk, your liking of recent Lincoln and Buick models is well-known and noted, but respectfully many will disagree with you here.

As Gecko mentioned, the MKZ interior is a disaster compared to the top competitors. It truly does look like an interior from the 1990s, in terms of overall materials and craftsmanship.

I wasn't a fan of the last (2013-2015) MKZ interior, or its road manners, by any means. And I'm also not impressed with a couple of present Buick Models...to say I'm a recent Buick Fan Boy is stretching it a little.

I also agree with his point about the electronic shifter buttons.

In actuality, there's really very little else in the way of modern vehicles to really compare them to...at least in the American market. Ford's Edsel used them on the steering-wheel hub in 1958...which was a flop. Chrysler used them, on the dash, in the early-mid 1960s (some of the cars I first learned to drive on, BTW), and they were somewhat more successful, though with a rather unpleasant push-feel to them. The new Lincoln versions are at least responsive and easy-to-operate. But, of course, I respect other opinions on that.

Even though I haven't seen the new LaCrosse in person yet, I have enough experience to be able to see through GM's heavy photoshopping of their PR photos.

I'm a little anxious myself to compare a real-vs. image view. But I can't say for sure if those shots have been doctored or not.

I also find the new exterior unappealing, and in fact very dated looking, like a vehicle from the 1990s.

That's probably what much of the LaCrosse buyer-base wants. And, like with the Lexus ES, one can't argue much with the sales numbers the LaCrosse has rung up so far. Both have been very successful with the older buyer-crowd.

 

[IS-SV]

I wasn't a fan of the last (2013-2015) MKZ interior, or its road manners, by any means. And I'm also not impressed with a couple of present Buick Models...to say I'm a recent Buick Fan Boy is stretching it a little.

LOL, because I think you are the only one to actually use that term here in thread. And the only one to actually buy a Buick in recent years here too.

Otherwise no comment about stretching, other than above noted facts.

 

[mmcartalk]

LOL, because I think you are the only one to actually use that term here in thread. And the only one to actually buy a Buick in recent years here too.

Otherwise no comment about stretching, other than above noted facts.

I worked long and hard for my money (well over 30 years), and buy and drive what I like and what suits me (just as I did with the Outback, IS300, and many vehicles before that). So, enjoy your own car (s), Steve............and I'll enjoy mine.

 

[IS-SV]

I worked long and hard for my money (well over 30 years), and buy and drive what I like and what suits me (just as I did with the Outback and IS300). Enjoy your own car (s), Steve............and I'll enjoy mine.

Not sure what any of that has to do with my comment #42 or even the topic here.

btw - You are not the only one here to work long and hard for well over 30 years (count me in) and buy what I want, so a condescending granny approach doesn't carry weight.

Agreed, enjoying our cars is the only way to go!

 

[mmcartalk]

btw - You are not the only one here to work long and hard for over 30 years,

Absolutely...and I respect others on this forum for it...and their contributions. And I was fortunate, in today's economy, to have a good job and benefits. My point, though, was that a person's auto-buying decision has to reflect their own needs and wants (and what they can afford)...not necessarily what others think.

Even when I was a teen-ager, almost a half-century ago, that was an issue. Most kids, back then, of course, were obsessed with American muscle-cars. Me and my best friend, of course, liked muscle cars ourselves, like any normal teen...but also, unlike a lot of kids, we also liked big Luxo-American cruisers. I certainly heard my share of "Grandpa" comments. LOL

Agreed, enjoying our cars is the only way to go!

Now...we're on the same wavelength.

 

[CIF]

I wasn't a fan of the last (2013-2015) MKZ interior, or its road manners, by any means. And I'm also not impressed with a couple of present Buick Models...to say I'm a recent Buick Fan Boy is stretching it a little.

In actuality, there's really very little else in the way of modern vehicles to really compare them to...at least in the American market. Ford's Edsel used them on the steering-wheel hub in 1958...which was a flop. Chrysler used them, on the dash, in the early-mid 1960s (some of the cars I first learned to drive on, BTW), and they were somewhat more successful, though with a rather unpleasant push-feel to them. The new Lincoln versions are at least responsive and easy-to-operate. But, of course, I respect other opinions on that.

I'm a little anxious myself to compare a real-vs. image view. But I can't say for sure if those shots have been doctored or not.

That's probably what much of the LaCrosse buyer-base wants. And, like with the Lexus ES, one can't argue much with the sales numbers the LaCrosse has rung up so far. Both have been very successful with the older buyer-crowd.

I simply meant that you've been impressed with a few recent Buick and Lincoln models. Not all of them, but a few. You've also made very clear your recommendations for those models .

A lack of other modern competition to compare it to is highly irrelevant IMO. I strongly feel it's a stupid idea putting buttons like that, as opposed to having a proper shifter column.

I certainly can say those shots are doctored, because GM has a big reputation for doing this, and because it's easy enough to spot when you compare previous unveilings by GM, comparing the PR photos to real life.

Yes, and Buick has done well refocusing on their strong suite, and their niche of older buyers. However that doesn't make this an ES killer, far from it. The ES buyers still tend to be different than LaCrosse buyers. They tend to be a bit younger, and have slightly different expectations from a vehicle. The commonality being that both types of buyers mainly look for a large, comfortable luxurious sedan.

 

[mmcartalk]

I simply meant that you've been impressed with a few recent Buick and Lincoln models. Not all of them, but a few. You've also made very clear your recommendations for those models .

True, but I'm probably also a title more conservative in my automotive tastes than some others on the forum.

I strongly feel it's a stupid idea putting buttons like that, as opposed to having a proper shifter column.

We'll see how well they end up selling. If these vehicles flop, then you might have a good point. Time will tell.

I certainly can say those shots are doctored, because GM has a big reputation for doing this, and because it's easy enough to spot when you compare previous unveilings by GM, comparing the PR photos to real life.

Well, on that one, though, I'll simply take your word for it without further explanation. Your computer skills in that area are probably a whole lot better than mine....with images, I know how to copy and paste, but I'm not into more advanced stuff.

Yes, and Buick has done well refocusing on their strong suite, and their niche of older buyers. However that doesn't make this an ES killer, far from it. The ES buyers still tend to be different than LaCrosse buyers. They tend to be a bit younger, and have slightly different expectations from a vehicle. The commonality being that both types of buyers mainly look for a large, comfortable luxurious sedan.

Most of the ES buyers I've seen have tended to come from about the same demographics as the LaCrosse. Of course, there is no reason why younger buyers can't (or don't) enjoy them, either.

I think that's one of the major attributes of both of these cars. Both have become such icons in the marketplace that, like the Camry and Accord, neither one can really bump the other one effectively out of the market....both are in high demand.

 

[CIF]

Yes, that much is true. The ES and LaCrosse are the main choices most buyers go for, in terms of this sort of vehicle. Over the years the competition decreased in this sub-segment, so the ES and LaCrosse as of now are the only two clear choices I can think of, in terms of large, comfort-oriented entry-level luxury sedans.

With that said, because Buick is not a true luxury brand, the LaCrosse I'm sure gets cross-shopped to an extent with mainstream large sedans like the Impala and Avalon or Maxima.

When looking at the top tier luxury brands, the ES is unique and essentially stands alone.

 

[IS-SV]

So the MKZ overall still looks like crap (with a snazzy grill) and will likely continue to sell as such until it's properly redesigned. The 400hp tt V6 might be cool (assuming it's reliable), but not likely to be purchased by typical Lincoln buyers and rental car agencies. And the car is overweight numbing the powers effectiveness.

Are there any better pictures (by now) of the new Buick Lacrosse? Since it's an all new body/structure, one could hope it's a big improvement....

 

[mmcartalk]

Are there any better pictures (by now) of the new Buick Lacrosse? Since it's an all new body/structure, one could hope it's a big improvement....

I wasn't at the L.A. show to take any shots, but this one is from Motor Trend, so I don't think it's been photoshopped.

I'll save further comment on the shifter and its pattern until I actually see it and try it, but I have generally disliked similar-type shifters in some BMWs.

 

[IS-SV]

^ Regardless looks like another press release photo, not actual Motor Trend camera work.

 

[mmcartalk]

^ Regardless looks like another press release photo, not actual Motor Trend camera work.

Either way, it looks like, on the interior, it's returning back to the 1Gen LaCrosse some....more along traditional Buick lines. The 2Gen LaCrosse used a radically-restyled dash/gauge/console panel and much thinner wood-tone trim strips. Putting the simulated-portholes back on the sides of the fender (as opposed to the hood) and returning to the red/white/blue Buick logo are further sops to traditionalists.

(One could bring up the point that at least there is no vinyl roof or whitewall tires, and I would agree...that would be overdoing it, though Cadillac dealerships still offer that as a dealer add-on).

 

[IS-SV]

Yawn, I expect to see them cruising around the airport here (usually rentals) soon enough. Looks like potentially improved.