16th Generation Toyota Crown (Sedan, Cross, Sport, Estate/Signia)

What do you think it is?

  • Lexus GS

    Votes: 4 10.0%
  • Toyota Crown

    Votes: 32 80.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 4 10.0%

  • Total voters
    40

Gecko

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Writing has been on the wall for a while - some here chose not to see it. The world is changing and Toyota must too.

AWD / Direct4 / Hybrids / Electric will make FF products do 85% of what FR can do for 10% of R&D cost, and consumers don't know the difference or care enough about drive wheels anyway. It's a win-win for Toyota.
 

Gor134

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It's possible this FF Crown may be alluding to another Toyota model like the Camry receiving the Crown nomenclature, just like how the original rumours of SUV Crown became the Crown Kluger.
 

maiaramdan

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It's possible this FF Crown may be alluding to another Toyota model like the Camry receiving the Crown nomenclature, just like how the original rumours of SUV Crown became the Crown Kluger.
If so, then what's the reason for Lexus


Chevy - Buick - Cadillac
Or
Ford - Mercury - Lincoln was disastrous!
 

ssun30

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The Issue is sedan is killed by other segments such as SUV and MPV not by drivetrain layout. The S220 Crown was not bad, but Japanese people are buying Alphard instead. I don't see how switching to FF magically solves that problem. It will do equally bad if not worse.

One hypothesis is a special 'Crown-Avalon' trim to expand FAW's Crown premium family. It already has 2 SUVs and 1 MPV, so it makes sense to complete the lineup with a sedan.
 

Gecko

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One hypothesis is a special 'Crown-Avalon' trim to expand FAW's Crown premium family. It already has 2 SUVs and 1 MPV, so it makes sense to complete the lineup with a sedan.

This is exactly what I was thinking too.

Once again, TNGA gives Toyota a lot of flexibility in centralizing costs but localizing models and trims. Think about being able to use GA-K as a basis for a midsize/large sedan and CUV with eAWD, next-gen hybrid powertrain, dramatic styling and luxury Avalon+/Highlander+ interior appointments. 95% of the costs can be shared with other lesser (Toyota) or greater (Lexus) models, but you have vehicles that fit into these specific niches and use cases that still end up being great, successful products.

Maybe these markets don't get the Avalon or the Highlander at all, so branding them as "Crown" and installing nicer interiors and cooler bumpers fills the niche and is a much stronger business case for Toyota.

Pretty hard to fight with that strategy, especially with hybrids, electricity, Direct4, AWD, etc. as equalizers and tech-forward solutions that increase the premium appeal.

That is the future, IMO.
 

Levi

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I still admire Jaguar, whatever it's current situation they insisting on the hard yet future prove success!
Jaguar is dead. The electric XJ is cancelled, the XF/XE have no more V8, only same block with two empty holes, no successors for them. Alfa Giulia has no successor now that FCA will use FWD electrified platforms.
 

Levi

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AWD / Direct4 / Hybrids / Electric will make FF products do 85% of what FR can do
i have yet to see that ES. it should have been here for facelift, just as V8 LS should have been for facelift.

if the LF-Z is Lexus' new flagship instead of LS and LC, fine. but there is no guarantee the RZ will really be like it, it might just be a rebadged Toyota BZ4 with more vegan leather.
 

Gor134

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UM?!

Is the Toyota Crown Headed for America? Tantalizing Trademark Raises Possibility

I personally doubt that they're going to bring the current generation Crown and start selling it here, but IF they do actually bring it I'll be shrieking full of joy. One can dream though......
Damn. Going back to someone's theory about the Avalon and if the Crown sedan actually switched to FF, could potentially be a next gen Avalon-replacement, or better yet an electric sedan? Or that fastback/hatchback type electric car they teased. Just speculating.
 

Sulu

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Crossovers and MPVs have largely eaten into the mid-size sedan market, but I believe that there is still a (small) market. That small market, however, is even smaller for performance-oriented RWD-based sedans.

I believe that Toyota may be justified in getting out of the RWD mid-size market but staying in the FWD mid-size market. Getting out of the mid-sized market completely will just drive the sedan/car buyer (who does not want a crossover) to the competition, perhaps forever. This market shift has kept the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord selling in North America.

If the Crown becomes a premium sub-brand or lives on as a FWD/AWD sedan, that at least keeps the iconic name alive. Products and brands must evolve with the changing times or die.
 

mikeavelli

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Maybe it’s just me but with the SUV craze coming I would think it’s that route. I just can’t see any sedan coming.
The Mirai let’s not forget is already LS based and RWD. I can’t see two RWD Toyota sedans.
 

ssun30

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I'm wondering what aspect of the society changed in a matter of one decade that vehicle bodystyle variety is going away.

30-60 years ago people buy all kinds of cars and make use of all of them. Sedan/hatchback for daily commute. Wagon for weekend family trips. Trucks for hauling cargo. Coupe/convertible for leisure. In the past decade everybody suddenly became so addicted to practicality and versatility and demand one car does everything. And depending on region SUV, MPV or pickup trucks just completely took over.
 

ssun30

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Writing has been on the wall for a while - some here chose not to see it. The world is changing and Toyota must too.

AWD / Direct4 / Hybrids / Electric will make FF products do 85% of what FR can do for 10% of R&D cost, and consumers don't know the difference or care enough about drive wheels anyway. It's a win-win for Toyota.
There are also several reasons FF cars have become almost indistinguishable from FR cars for regular people who don't drive their cars remotely close to the limit:

> Huge wheels and low-profile tires became fashionable. As a side-effect most modern cars are very responsive (compared to older cars). In fact an average FF sedan today has similar tire profile to a super car in the 90s.
> Most modern cars use electric power steering that are tuned to be very tight to give a false impression of quick steering response. Something you can't easily do with hydraulic power steering.
> ESPs have become very effect at controlling vehicle movement. FF cars are much less understeer and vice versa. People tend to forget how dangerous FR cars are before mid-2000s when good ESPs became available.
> Many ESP software have built-in selective braking to improve cornering (like Toyota's ACA). Helps FF cars a lot more than FR cars.
> Many FR cars now use staggered wheel setup to improve traction and handle powerful modern engines. The side effect is more rear-end grip which gives the false impression of more understeer. BMW is an exception still use square setup in many products which makes the rear easier to move around.

And these are even before fancier tech like eAWD comes into play.
 

Levi

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even other RWD sedans are almost gone. depending on market, but here in France all more powerful engines including BMW have no more manual and come only with AWD. while mechanical AWD/4WD is better/more simple with longitudinally mounted engine, for electronically controlled AWD systems there is no noticeable difference. with batteries in the back, the static weight distribution becomes more balanced. in design, even RWD cars from all brands have too long front overhangs, which makes the car unnecessarily long. designers should work on making FWD front overhangs look good. The old Honda's were all great.

i think most Lexus sedan buyers will be able to live with FWD-based ES/Crown instead of RWD IS/GS, even if they'll never be the same thing, but the issue us that RWD has to be compensated by electric performance. till now there is no sign of turbo I4 hybrid making 400 PS. even Peugeot 508 makes that on paper and AWD hybrid C AMG is no more "RWD sedan" in the buyers mind.

where is the ES F SPORT Performance? that is the real question.
 

maiaramdan

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So for unSUV / unCUV guys in 40s and above that drive to the limit and never owned an FF

What's the chances now LS is way big IS is way small !