Official Lexus Future Product & Powertrain Megathread

[internalaudit]

Looking forward to the electrified sedan in 2026. Hopefully the price won't be bonkers and the actual production model is more cohesive and conservative compared to the prototype.

For my use case (commute to work), it's looking like BEV is the way to go. If not, I either go with a hybrid vehicle or a nicer vehicle with torque vectoring but with poorer fuel efficiency. Might as well have the best of both worlds and wait for a BEV with TVD haha. By then batteries in Toyota BEVs should be much improved and longer lasting.

 

[carguy420]

No need for guessing anymore lol 😂

 

[mikeavelli]

View attachment 9742

No need for guessing anymore lol 😂

and what’s amazing is the supra and 86 will continue….

 

[sl0519]

and what’s amazing is the supra and 86 will continue….

and what's depressing is the GS and LS will discontinued...

 

[Ali Manai]

and what's depressing is the GS and LS will discontinued...

It's like Toyota isn't interested in rwd sedans or even crossovers for that matter.
The crown sedan was displayed in jakarta yesterday so it would be coming there too so it's not japanese exclusive anymore. Hopefully, they do give it the v6 and launch it globally if they get rid of the LS

 

[Levi]

The crown sedan was displayed in jakarta yesterday so it would be coming there too so it's not japanese exclusive anymore.

Still RHD only.

 

[Falcon]

Still RHD only.

It's sold in China too.

 

[internalaudit]

Even RZ is FWD biased haha.

Toyota doesn't want most of its vehicles to have oversteer yet it removed TVD from the RCF.

 

[Randen Montalvo]

Even RZ is FWD biased haha.

Toyota doesn't want most of its vehicles to have oversteer yet it removed TVD from the RCF.

I don't think TVD was impactful on the platform performance-wise enough to justify its existence. They have seemed to realize that from the engineer's comments and have moved on. Hoping for a better diff or that new revised Torsen they did for the RCF Emotion and LC Edge in Japan. Excited to see the the next chapter of differentials from Lexus.

 

[internalaudit]

I don't think TVD was impactful on the platform performance-wise enough to justify its existence. They have seemed to realize that from the engineer's comments and have moved on. Hoping for a better diff or that new revised Torsen they did for the RCF Emotion and LC Edge in Japan. Excited to see the the next chapter of differentials from Lexus.

Problem with Torsen and other LSD is they are reactive for the most part and the difference in milliseconds or seconds could be stark in the event of a near death situation.

Unless I am missing something from my research.

So many advancements in vehicles but on differentials, we are kinda stuck with torque vectoring still being the best.

I watched Savagegeese GR Corolla vs CTR video and Mark admits his CTR gets wobbly in inclement weather.

There should not be a big difference when pavement is smooth and dry, the night and day difference would be driving in inclement weather. We should WFH on those days but unfortunately, not all workplaces can be flexible enough.

 

[Randen Montalvo]

Problem with Torsen and other LSD is they are reactive for the most part and the difference in milliseconds or seconds could be stark in the event of a near death situation.

Unless I am missing something from my research.

So many advancements in vehicles but on differentials, we are kinda stuck with torque vectoring still being the best.

I watched Savagegeese GR Corolla vs CTR video and Mark admits his CTR gets wobbly in inclement weather.

There should not be a big difference when pavement is smooth and dry, the night and day difference would be driving in inclement weather. We should WFH on those days but unfortunately, not all workplaces can be flexible enough.

The use case in an F model i would presume car would be more performance-oriented, in my view, inclement weather conditions would definitely benefit more from a TVD however around a track , launching or anything beyond going in a circle or a slalom the current iteration unit of TVD, in my opinion, was a non-factor in creating a superior delta that was better than a Torsen unit if you raced them head to head due to added weight and less mechanical control of the car based on engineer notes and Scott P talking points on the RCF TE for instance and their focus on lap times and control. The fastest times on the RCF for instance are often all Torsen based even at Nurb ring thus kind of make sense overall that it wasn't a necessary product to have or be bother with and a unneeded complexity. I would like more info on their revised Torsen and hope they eventually move to an eLSD setup in future models we shall see. . They did a thing with trying to create something that defined the car but it ended up in my view as a dedicated part flopping to really define any performance delta that wasnt an AMCI circle or slalom test which TBH the car was designed for long-form tracks. Remember even the mighty LFA had a Torsen LSD ( TV has been around for quite some time of course ) and it was praised for its track-driving prowess so its telling that they keep revising the Torsen and have moved away from TVD with a more balanced dedicated chassis hopefully in their next F car or newer GR cars.

 

[ssun30]

TVD does not increase the max grip level because that's limited by the tires and TVD is heavier (I think 20kg heavier?). It helps normal drivers rotate the car and maintain stability but professional drivers could do that just from pure skill.

On the GSF it made a huge difference for normal drivers like me because GSF is a big car.

 

[internalaudit]

So you are saying TVD cannot increase traction by transferring torque to the wheel with more grip? That's probably only true when the pavement is dry and perfectly smooth and the tires have been warmed up.

Even when the car is turning and traveling (accelerating or braking quicky) fast, traction on one side could be reduced depending on the suspension settings so TVD's fine tuning helps almost at all times. At least this author's channel suggests so.


Of course in situations where tires have maximum grip, TVD will not help so much but most of the time, traction isn't going to 50/50 between the two wheels especially when the car is not traveling straight anyway on perfect pavement often enough that TVD or LSD will definitely make some difference.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a28714/turning-off-stability-control-is-one-of-the-dumbest-things-you-can-do-in-a-car/

Don't Touch That Button: Turning Off Stability Control Is Dumb and Dangerous​

Popular opinion holds that ESC is just another nanny, something that ruins the fun of driving. For most people, though, it could save your life.

 

[mikeavelli]

From my conversations with Lexus and driving TVD or non TVD cars the issue was weight. It was a superior unit but it weighed a ton. That’s why it’s not on the track edition. I’ll look through my photos as Paul Williamson brought a full TVD unit to SEMA i think in 2016. It was heavy af lol.

I love TVD and in particular in the GS F.

 

[internalaudit]

I don't doubt that many professional driver can beat the lap times of similar vehicles that benefit from TVD and LSD.

But surely, that mostly only apply on/in good road and weather conditions, the best professional drivers can zip through the corners and bends faster on the track but at least where I live here in Canada, there are some torrential downpours (maybe 10x at most in a year) and snowing / icing of the roads during winter.

I'm quite positive only a few professional drivers can in a vehicle with open differentials outmaneuver an above average driver driving a vehicle equipped with TVD. It's just not physical possible for a human being to fine tune the torque and maximize traction in many situations. There's a reason why many races are conducted in good weather. Any inclement weather and these races are cancelled in most likelihood.

If Schumacher thinks turning ESC off is dumb and dangerous for most people when not on the track, then we already know most drivers, including professional drivers, will not best ESC in terms of keeping vehicles stable. If that's the case, how many of these better drivers can even excel over a good TVD system, it's just not humanly possible to be able to outperform TVD system in all possible driving scenarios.


I think the BMW that Ssun drives (a 3 or 4 series) has the M Sport Differential standard, which is TVD lol.

 

[Ali Manai]

If you go to the japanese page of toyota and viewed details of cars their there is no mention of stuff like this any more previously with crown mark x and every rear wheel drive car or awd for that matter had some mention of type of differential used although you could still download the spec sheet and it would probably mention that but otherwise there is no other mention for it.

Moving on it would be interesting to see when they update the IS with the new 2.0 turbo which differential do they use at taht time

 

[carguy420]

I don't doubt that many professional driver can beat the lap times of similar vehicles that benefit from TVD and LSD.

But surely, that mostly only apply on/in good road and weather conditions, the best professional drivers can zip through the corners and bends faster on the track but at least where I live here in Canada, there are some torrential downpours (maybe 10x at most in a year) and snowing / icing of the roads during winter.

I'm quite positive only a few professional drivers can in a vehicle with open differentials outmaneuver an above average driver driving a vehicle equipped with TVD. It's just not physical possible for a human being to fine tune the torque and maximize traction in many situations. There's a reason why many races are conducted in good weather. Any inclement weather and these races are cancelled in most likelihood.

If Schumacher thinks turning ESC off is dumb and dangerous for most people when not on the track, then we already know most drivers, including professional drivers, will not best ESC in terms of keeping vehicles stable. If that's the case, how many of these better drivers can even excel over a good TVD system, it's just not humanly possible to be able to outperform TVD system in all possible driving scenarios.


I think the BMW that Ssun drives (a 3 or 4 series) has the M Sport Differential standard, which is TVD lol.

BMW uses eLSD instead of TVD.

 

[Randen Montalvo]

BMW uses eLSD instead of TVD.

Correct, even the Z06 Corvette uses eLSD and even the mighty LFA used a Torsen LSD. BMW i believe did use and iteration TVD in some models example the SAVs had the system correct me if im wrong i remember my X6M having TVD from GKN Driveline which really felt great on that car.

 

[Randen Montalvo]

I don't doubt that many professional driver can beat the lap times of similar vehicles that benefit from TVD and LSD.

But surely, that mostly only apply on/in good road and weather conditions, the best professional drivers can zip through the corners and bends faster on the track but at least where I live here in Canada, there are some torrential downpours (maybe 10x at most in a year) and snowing / icing of the roads during winter.

I'm quite positive only a few professional drivers can in a vehicle with open differentials outmaneuver an above average driver driving a vehicle equipped with TVD. It's just not physical possible for a human being to fine tune the torque and maximize traction in many situations. There's a reason why many races are conducted in good weather. Any inclement weather and these races are cancelled in most likelihood.

If Schumacher thinks turning ESC off is dumb and dangerous for most people when not on the track, then we already know most drivers, including professional drivers, will not best ESC in terms of keeping vehicles stable. If that's the case, how many of these better drivers can even excel over a good TVD system, it's just not humanly possible to be able to outperform TVD system in all possible driving scenarios.


I think the BMW that Ssun drives (a 3 or 4 series) has the M Sport Differential standard, which is TVD lol.

Opinions on this - To note my thought process only applies in the realm of high performance driving not joe driving his TVD RCF on a high way framing - I would suggest to watch some RCF time attack races my friend to kind of undersand the why on that from people who actuallty race the RCF which kind of refute what your suggesting in regards to performance driving. Weight is king and the benefits of a lighter car in this platform outweight the performance benefits of TVD and its added weight and complexity. This is probably why Lexus removed it didnt even lower the price and further developed the Torsen. Remember Lexus actually revised the Torsen it after stop selling the TVD and released a newer tuned Torsen LSD only in the RCF Emotion and LC Edge. From Lexus engineers on the record to David Yansens which runs a Time attack RCF ( the fastest RCF we know ) all are on Torsen cars and David pefers Torsen because of the cars mechanical control of the rear he explained it in detail. This is the same with the fastest RCFs at the Nurburging is a RCF TE and it has alot to do with weight. Professional drivers and the Lexus engineers ( as explained in a Lexus editorial ) prefer Torsen on the RCF in this context.

Now will say agreeing with Mike that on the GSF it makes sense because you are under no impression that weight or laptimes is going to be factor and with the GSFs also a more neutral chassis in my view i have always had no issue with TVD on a GSF but in the RCF i did not like it at all but thats just me and im not saying anyone should share my opinion. In the RCF the TVD is really not needed if lap times and track use is your focus and its why the engineers and even Scott P state that they prefer controlling the car and behavior of the Torsen from a performance perspective rather than a TVD because of the weight penality. The TVD as we know it is dead for a good reason and theres a reason its not even on the LC500 the flagship car. Weight and its just not good enough in it current iteration to move the delta in a meaningful way when weight is your key issue with the platform. Again the LFA was praised for its handling and that was a Torsen LSD. Weight is king in this context. Reason why if your serious in time attacking with the RCF eventually you will upgrade your Torsen and go with an OS Giken Super Lock LSD kinda of the ultimate end game of Diffs on the RCF beyond custom configs.

Cheers

 

[internalaudit]

Opinions on this - To note my thought process only applies in the realm of high performance driving not joe driving his TVD RCF on a high way framing - I would suggest to watch some RCF time attack races my friend to kind of undersand the why on that from people who actuallty race the RCF which kind of refute what your suggesting in regards to performance driving. Weight is king and the benefits of a lighter car in this platform outweight the performance benefits of TVD and its added weight and complexity. This is probably why Lexus removed it didnt even lower the price and further developed the Torsen. Remember Lexus actually revised the Torsen it after stop selling the TVD and released a newer tuned Torsen LSD only in the RCF Emotion and LC Edge. From Lexus engineers on the record to David Yansens which runs a Time attack RCF ( the fastest RCF we know ) all are on Torsen cars and David pefers Torsen because of the cars mechanical control of the rear he explained it in detail. This is the same with the fastest RCFs at the Nurburging is a RCF TE and it has alot to do with weight. Professional drivers and the Lexus engineers ( as explained in a Lexus editorial ) prefer Torsen on the RCF in this context.

Now will say agreeing with Mike that on the GSF it makes sense because you are under no impression that weight or laptimes is going to be factor and with the GSFs also a more neutral chassis in my view i have always had no issue with TVD on a GSF but in the RCF i did not like it at all but thats just me and im not saying anyone should share my opinion. In the RCF the TVD is really not needed if lap times and track use is your focus and its why the engineers and even Scott P state that they prefer controlling the car and behavior of the Torsen from a performance perspective rather than a TVD because of the weight penality. The TVD as we know it is dead for a good reason and theres a reason its not even on the LC500 the flagship car. Weight and its just not good enough in it current iteration to move the delta in a meaningful way when weight is your key issue with the platform. Again the LFA was praised for its handling and that was a Torsen LSD. Weight is king in this context. Reason why if your serious in time attacking with the RCF eventually you will upgrade your Torsen and go with an OS Giken Super Lock LSD kinda of the ultimate end game of Diffs on the RCF beyond custom configs.

Cheers

I already said in races the tracks are perfect and weather is usual permitting.

I seriously do not expect the best race car drivers to beat traction afforded by TVD in inclement or bad road conditions. Sure, it's doable by maybe the top 2% of drivers.

Drivers cannot control traction as well as a computer can. Sure they know when the mass shifts but tell me how they can control distribution of torque between wheels or even between front and rear?

Race car driving is almost done in perfect driving condition where traction may not be the most important factor to win. Tires are also likely new (or primed with the best grip.)

I am not saying I can drive better than a professional. All I am saying is no human can mimic ESC, traction control and TVD the way computers can. Winning a race doesn't mean one has to beat the machine, one just has to beat other humans.