Official: Toyota’s GR GT3 Concept will become the GR GT production car

[F1 Silver Arrows]

The prototype specs of this car are absolutely trash. Their original goal was 900-950PS and 700PS+ from the ICE alone. Now the system power output i.e. with the hybrid system is only 650PS. The weight target is 1750kg despite using a lot of fancy materials. So this prototype GR GT actually has worse power-to-weight ratio than the LFA NE (371 PS/t vs. 413 PS/t) though it has almost twice the torque.

By comparison the BMW S63 makes 620-650PS at the wheels, and the LC-F prototype made about 660PS also from just the ICE. After 6 years of "meticulous engineering" GR managed to make the car less powerful. I don't know why I expected this thing to challenge the AMG GT BS, becase with these numbers it'll be lucky to surpass the AMG GT R. Good job Akio Toyoda you just managed to humiliate yourself again.

Yeah, well said.

 

[LCLFV]

My dude it's a Lexus IS interior in a $250k car that only has 640hp.

There is no credit to be given here. This is literally the least they could do.

I agree; I was talking more about the interior on its own than the rest of the car. I wish the rest of the future Lexus lineup looked like that instead of what we got in the new ES.

The bar is so low that if anything we should be somewhat relieved this doesn't share the same interior as the new ES.

 

[DarkSpace6383]

The prototype specs of this car are absolutely trash. Their original goal was 900-950PS and 700PS+ from the ICE alone. Now the system power output i.e. with the hybrid system is only 650PS. The weight target is 1750kg despite using a lot of fancy materials. So this prototype GR GT actually has worse power-to-weight ratio than the LFA NE (371 PS/t vs. 413 PS/t) though it has almost twice the torque.

By comparison the BMW S63 makes 620-650PS at the wheels, and the LC-F prototype made about 660PS also from just the ICE. After 6 years of "meticulous engineering" GR managed to make the car less powerful. And let's not forget it's not even the most powerful Japanese sports car ever, because Nissan made a 720PS GTR special edition. I don't know why I expected this thing to challenge the AMG GT BS, becase with these numbers it'll be lucky to surpass the AMG GT R. Good job Akio Toyoda you just managed to humiliate yourself again.

I am really hoping that there is a detuned base model and a more powerful one that hits that target. TBH that is probably what may be happening.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

I am really hoping that there is a detuned base model and a more powerful one that hits that target. TBH that is probably what may be happening.

Keep your expectations low buddy.

 

[b.ba]

I am really hoping that there is a detuned base model and a more powerful one that hits that target. TBH that is probably what may be happening.

If they're swinging for the home run with the debut, they absolutely shouldn't be revealing a more powerful version later

 

[CRSKTN]

 

[LCLFV]

I am personally ok with Toyota spinning off Gazoo Racing. I think the problem is that both Lexus F and GR can co-exist well together (again, look at VW group). I am ok with an EV LFA as long as its not replacing a combustion model. Ideally Lexus and Toyota would have both had V8H and GT3 models, and Lexus would be more involved in motorsport as a whole. GR seems to have eaten too much of the pie the way I see it.

The real problem is that it being a brand focused on "performance" effectively neuters any attempt Lexus will make in the future about having performance models. Lexus is not allowed to step GR (and by extension Akio's) toes. The Germans understood this and only had their performance divisions be sub-brands. Of course you have VAG's portfolio of performance brands, but those were already established prestige nameplates by the time they merged, and so people won't mind if an Audi RS8 has the same power as a Lambo Urus because they're buying the Urus for the badge.

For some odd reason, Toyota seems to think that making Lexus into an EV brand will somehow be enough to reshape its identity, which is an absolutely insane mindset to have in 2025.

 

[DarkSpace6383]

This is a fair take. I share your sentiments.

GR has cemented itself as a legendary sub-brand, but to do it while killing off Lexus' core competencies and diverting resources away from Lexus is disappointing.

Lexus should be moving increasingly upmarket if anything. The Toyota+ models should be what their new "Crown" line of cars is for (and please don't make Crown it's own brand). The range should start from the IS and the NX, both of which need significant improvements. Everyone says Lexus is irrelevant now that Century is, but Century is targetting Bentley, which was never Lexus's fight anyway. If I were in charge of Lexus id be gunning for the Mercedes/BMW and Porsche (C-Klasse/3-Series and above).

 

[DarkSpace6383]

The real problem is that it being a brand focused on "performance" effectively neuters any attempt Lexus will make in the future about having performance models. Lexus is not allowed to step GR (and by extension Akio's) toes. The Germans understood this and only had their performance divisions be sub-brands. Of course you have VAG's portfolio of performance brands, but those were already established prestige nameplates by the time they merged, and so people won't mind if an Audi RS8 has the same power as a Lambo Urus - they're buying the badge.

For some odd reason, Toyota seems to think that making Lexus into an EV brand will somehow be enough to reshape its identity, which is an absolutely insane mindset to have in 2025.

I think here established brand or not with GR's history they could do fine just having variations of the same powertrain/model with different characteristics and positions within the overall Toyota Group portfolio. I am happy GR is expanding, but I think this does not mean Lexus should contract.

 

[DarkSpace6383]

View attachment 10786

Half the interior, double the price.

 

[Gecko]

In some sense, debuting a hybrid TTV8 with only about 650 hp would have been clowned if it were a Lexus.

If anyone ever had doubts, it's clear this engine is 7-8 years old and was designed for LS F, LC F, etc. because it would have actually been competitive in 2020 - 2023, but not anymore. 650hp in 2027 and beyond is nothing.

Lexus could have had a full generation of an LS F, LC F, and whatever else "F" with this engine from 2020 - 2026 because it appears it's just been sitting on the shelf for that long.

 

[Gecko]

I love Gazoo Racing, but I don't think it was necessary to spin it off as its own brand. There should have been a Lexus and a Toyota variant. I'm not hating on the car itself, but it's so bizarre for Toyota to take this car away from Lexus.

THIS.

 

[b.ba]

If anyone ever had doubts, it's clear this engine is 7-8 years old and was designed for LS F, LC F, etc. because it would have actually been competitive in 2020 - 2023, but not anymore. 650hp in 2027 and beyond is nothing.

Lexus could have had a full generation of an LS F, LC F, and whatever else "F" with this engine from 2020 - 2026 because it appears it's just been sitting on the shelf for that long.

I've also heard this TTV8 was supposed to go into TNGA-F products, which perhaps could have helped avoid the current fiasco with the 3.4 TTV6 as well and made the TRD Pro products more legitimate (and even provided a proper Lexus LX)

 

[ssun30]

I am really hoping that there is a detuned base model and a more powerful one that hits that target. TBH that is probably what may be happening.

That engine was designed for the Euro 6 emissions standards but since the GR GT was so delayed it already has to be detuned for Euro 7. If I have to guess, the hybrid motor makes 140-160PS and 200N.m while the ICE makes 480-500PS and 650N.m. That's about right for the typical Euro 7 power loss on Euro 6 engines (~30%).

The only chance we see a full-power model would be a NA-exclusive version with 700PS ICE and 850-900PS total, if we are lucky.

 

[LCLFV]

That engine was designed for the Euro 6 emissions standards but since the GR GT was so delayed it already has to be detuned for Euro 7. If I have to guess, the hybrid motor makes 140-160PS and 200N.m while the ICE makes 480-500PS and 650N.m. That's about right for the typical Euro 7 power loss on Euro 6 engines (~30%).

The only chance we see a full-power model would be a NA-exclusive version with 700PS ICE and 850-900PS total, if we are lucky.

Couldn't they just give it a more powerful electric motor, or is that not possible with this hybrid system?

 

[ssun30]

Couldn't they just give it a more powerful electric motor, or is that not possible with this hybrid system?

No the bottleneck is the battery. The motor cannot make more power than the battery can discharge. Originally it is supposed to be use the first solid state battery in the world and that's how BestCar based their scoops on: 700PS from ICE and 200-250PS from hybrid. But these really low specs suggest 1) either the solid state battery couldn't hit their power density target 2) they went back to a more mature Li-ion design.

 

[LCLFV]

Ouch if true. $200k was an underestimate.

No word on pricing, but none of the Toyota reps present scoffed at our suggesting a $350,000 to $400,000 price, which would land it in the world of the Aston Martin Vanquish, Ferrari 296, Ford Mustang GTD, McLaren 750S, and Porsche 911 GT3 RS.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a69636201/2027-toyota-gr-gt-supercar-revealed/

Also confirms that it'll be sold at "certain" US Lexus dealerships.

 

[Gecko]

This car is a tough sell at $125k IMO, much less $250k or $350k.

Corvette starts at $70k and 911 starts at $134k, and this car isn’t going to beat either of them.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

No the bottleneck is the battery. The motor cannot make more power than the battery can discharge. Originally it is supposed to be use the first solid state battery in the world and that's how BestCar based their scoops on: 700PS from ICE and 200-250PS from hybrid. But these really low specs suggest 1) either the solid state battery couldn't hit their power density target 2) they went back to a more mature Li-ion design.

I remember the lowest number was 900-950, with 986 being the quoted total combined system output, but it was purported to hit four digits. This is the same Toyota that (according to rumors) temporarily paused development because the new AMG GT was a four-seater, not a two-seater. The point is... their priorities are in the wrong place.

Toyota and Lexus used to be an order of magnitude more boring before, but for the LFA they crafted a masterpiece. It was a focused product... cost was no object. Today, Toyota is an exciting brand that is all the rage for different customers, enthusiasts, and journalists alike, but it seems like some aspects are less... focused and is very haphazardly decided on.

I will immediately walk back on my qualms for this product if the price is under 200k USD, but if they're claiming 250k... and rumors are saying that executives are not even flinching at 300-400k USD prices...? Well this is an even bigger mistake than the LFA when it comes to pricing. At least the LFA came out with some world-beating characteristics like design, craftsmanship, and that engine. This car... on the other hand... well... this new car seems to be positioned as a really good racecar but not a very good road car.

Mercedes-Benz (or should I say, Mercedes-AMG) botched their new AMG GT and this was Toyota's opportunity to swoop in and make them look like total amateurs. Instead, Toyota told Mercedes-AMG to hold their beer and off they went to create a product that is compromised. I have full faith that this will be an insanely badass racecar though.

 

[LCLFV]

This car is a tough sell at $125k IMO, much less $250k or $350k.

Corvette starts at $70k and 911 starts at $134k, and this car isn’t going to beat either of them.

How about something also Japanese?

https://www.nissanusa.com/shopping-tools/build-price?models=gt-r&modelYear=current-year

How are the specs of this car barely more competitive than a vehicle that has two less cylinders and is older than the LFA?