Official: Toyota’s GR GT3 Concept will become the GR GT production car

[Gecko]

One other thing... I don't really make any money on this website. About $5-7 a day in ad revenue if you want to be specific... so it is certainly not paying my bills, I don't create content on YouTube, and it's incredibly difficult to monetize social media channels without sponsorships or product affiliation, neither of which I have. Lexus Enthusiast is basically paying the storage fee for my RC F and that's about it 😜

I like Kirk - he is a nice guy and I've spent time with him - but he supports his family on YouTube. It is his career. Some of the other media like CarScoops or Motor1 are pure media/click models, so any headline that any of these people can take and turn into a video or a clickbait headline earns them money, whether it's true or not. Lexus "news" and rumors are just one revenue source for these folks, so they can make real money on this type of media model because they cover so many brands and have huge reach.

Not everything I've posted here has come to fruition, but I always try to follow up with the best information possible and the LFR is a great example. When I was hearing it was a GO, I wrote that up. Then I heard the GR GT3 concept could become multiple models (GR, Toyota, Lexus -- even though that made no sense to me), then I saw the signs it would just be a GR car, so I've published all of those updates here. Things do move quickly inside Toyota and different people are told different things to see what leaks to the media... so I rarely post anything here without an external source, and that I haven't heard/seen at least 2+ times.

@ssun30's and @CRSKTN's points are exactly true. Some of us have seen and touched the LC F. It was co-developed with the LS F. There was a fifth generation GS. The 4.0L TT V8 is real and it was originally developed for Lexus. These are projects that were real, and killed late in development so it's no wonder there were years and rounds of rumors, speculation, and renders. I don't always get it right but I try to be as legitimate as possible, even if I barely make gas money from any of this.

People spinning any bit of news into a sensationalist headline are operating on a different model than Lexus Enthusiast, and that's ok. I love seeing the excitement for Lexus even on stories/headlines I know won't be true because I still love the brand, and I honestly hope Toyota sees the passion as well. Let's see what the next few months/years hold, and what comes true or doesn't.

 

[b.ba]

@ssun30's and @CRSKTN's points are exactly true. Some of us have seen and touched the LC F. It was co-developed with the LS F. There was a fifth generation GS. The 4.0L TT V8 is real and it was originally developed for Lexus. These are projects that were real, and killed late in development so it's no wonder there were years and rounds of rumors, speculation, and renders. I don't always get it right but I try to be as legitimate as possible, even if I barely make gas money from any of this.

Oh to lay eyes and get my grubby hands on any of these non-existent models ☹️

 

[CRSKTN]

I don't mean to be diminutive towards people in that business, you gotta make yours and you're providing an important service.

This is just our frustration at a system that will continue to serve it's purpose, we are simply now not happy with the purpose as we feel misled or used.

Kirk and others, god speed. Get yours, I know they make you earn every cent and the job is a brutal one.

I'll just say this:

I've been around long enough that I know of only a few communities online, most are darkweb now, that I still bother to participate in.
This one is one of the few "above the surface" ones I bother with, and in large part it's because of how Gecko operates.

I don't know if you recall but this site is actually night and day from what it was before it came under current management.

The amount G has put into this community is actually crazy. It really isn't something I can or want to quantify or qualify here, but this is basically a subsidized community purely off the passion and work of a single (and helpers) guy who is also someone who works hard for those dollars too outside this community. This isn't "oh i've got play money I spend on a hobby community", this is actual earned money and time being spent here.

All this to say: This place will continue to be relevant and have an audience, and I'm hopeful that everyone will manage to do better than just keeping the lights on. Who knows, maybe I can find a way to be a help too. Lexus isn't going anywhere, it's just changing, and we get to watch and see what happens.

Maybe I will even get a ridiculous throne-car out of this.

There was a fifth generation GS.

And a new GSF was closer thank you think too :shhh:

 

[ssun30]

BTW the Mirai interior was taken directly out of the 5GS prototype. It was the first iteration of the Tazuna cockpit concept. Those big ugly piano black AC vents were placeholders for digital real view mirror screens which later debuted on the ES. This is how I know the 5GS prototype definitely exists (and in very late development stage) even though I was never lucky enough to see it in person. Insisting on developing hydrogen fuel cells for passenger cars was one of the biggest mistakes TMC has made in its history, yet they still cancelled the 5GS in favor of the laughing stock that is the Mirai. The GA-L platform was heavily compromised for the need to hold the hydrogen tanks, and an entire generation of longitudinal passenger cars is doomed from the beginning because of that.

Now back to the GR GT. This program is the best proof Savagegeese said in their recent videos about Lexus: you need the long term talent pool and institutional know-how to keep building a certain type of product. Lexus have the people and knowledge to make reliable (at least used to) appliance products; European brands have been building lightweight, high performance cars for decades. They had all the time in the world to improve the process and they are only unreliable because they are pushing the performance envelope to the limit. Toyota has engineered exactly zero super car since the LFA, so they lost all that knowledge after the $500M+ investment into it. It wasn't a surprise to me at all that the GR GT is now delayed by two years. They tried to build an aluminum spaceframe chassis with adhesive binding to CFRP panels - they got a chassis rigidity problem. They tried to build their first hot-V twin turbocharged V8 engines with over 700PS - they got an emissions compliance problem.

I've said before that even if the LC/LS/GS F models were indeed released, they would still be hopelessly outmatched. And they will be the exact copy of the GS/RC-F before them: nobody buys them when new except for a few enthusiasts and 10 years later every media praises how good they are used. I hope TMC understands that selling used cars isn't the best business model ever.

 

[DarkSpace6383]

Till this day "countless of other sources" have all cited one original Australian outlet that still hasn't released the transcript or video of the interview with "high level Toyota executives".

The V8 rumor is less believable than LC-F because that car existed. BestCar also reported GS-F/LS-F/LF-1 until they were cancelled at the last minute. These are real V8 F models that actually passed design phase and began testing, the prototypes were already there. But now we know where they went. There's no reason to believe they will revive a lineup of V8 products because they would have done that by now.

They would have reported it when it was actually still planned. It got cancelled bc of the pandemic.

 

[ssun30]

They would have reported it when it was actually still planned. It got cancelled bc of the pandemic.

It was NOT the pandemic. That's the most common excuse they use for all the cancelled projects. Japan contained the pandemic very well and resumed in-person work in about 6 months and most companies got back to full operations in a year.

The only program that got significantly delayed during the pandemic was the TNGA-F2 platform (Tacoma, 4Runner, J250 Prado, GX) by about 18 months. But the main reason was re-scoping of the project to make it bigger and carry more load. The "light duty" platform almost match the size and GVM of the previous-gen J200 platform. Every other main project such as the F1 platform (J300, LX, Tundra, Sequoia) released on time or just slightly delayed by 3-6 months (GH, TX).

In terms of overall impact the pandemic was much less severe than the 2011 Tohoku Earthquake. That event set them back at least two years and wiped out 1/10 of their workforce and assets - yet the RC-F/GS-F were designed during these much harder times and proceeded as planned.

 

[Gor134]

BTW the Mirai interior was taken directly out of the 5GS prototype. It was the first iteration of the Tazuna cockpit concept.

Yup same exact interior design language as the other Lexus models that followed!

Sidenote, I wish Carmaker1 was still here always loved to read his messages and insights on Lexus. Hope he's doing okay and still around, I had messaged a few people here asking about him.

 

[DarkSpace6383]

It was NOT the pandemic. That's the most common excuse they use for all the cancelled projects. Japan contained the pandemic very well and resumed in-person work in about 6 months and most companies got back to full operations in a year.

The only program that got significantly delayed during the pandemic was the TNGA-F2 platform (Tacoma, 4Runner, J250 Prado, GX) by about 18 months. But the main reason was re-scoping of the project to make it bigger and carry more load. The "light duty" platform almost match the size and GVM of the previous-gen J200 platform. Every other main project such as the F1 platform (J300, LX, Tundra, Sequoia) released on time or just slightly delayed by 3-6 months (GH, TX).

In terms of overall impact the pandemic was much less severe than the 2011 Tohoku Earthquake. That event set them back at least two years and wiped out 1/10 of their workforce and assets - yet the RC-F/GS-F were designed during these much harder times and proceeded as planned.

You really think everyone who works at Lexus was in Japan?

 

[CIF]

It was NOT the pandemic. That's the most common excuse they use for all the cancelled projects. Japan contained the pandemic very well and resumed in-person work in about 6 months and most companies got back to full operations in a year.

The only program that got significantly delayed during the pandemic was the TNGA-F2 platform (Tacoma, 4Runner, J250 Prado, GX) by about 18 months. But the main reason was re-scoping of the project to make it bigger and carry more load. The "light duty" platform almost match the size and GVM of the previous-gen J200 platform. Every other main project such as the F1 platform (J300, LX, Tundra, Sequoia) released on time or just slightly delayed by 3-6 months (GH, TX).

In terms of overall impact the pandemic was much less severe than the 2011 Tohoku Earthquake. That event set them back at least two years and wiped out 1/10 of their workforce and assets - yet the RC-F/GS-F were designed during these much harder times and proceeded as planned.

I mostly agree, yet I have heard concerning things about the pandemic's effect on Toyota and its suppliers. Not in terms of delays, but in terms of research and development work and engineering that was done remotely instead of in-person (not just in Japan but in Toyota's worldwide operations).

 

[DarkSpace6383]

this is very interesting. why is Lexus announcing this? I wonder what this could imply, especially with the presence of the Lexus Sport Concept. Also, notice how it says models (plural) rather than just model. From what I can tell the one in the back is the GT3 car, then there is the Lexus sport concept, and then there is the GR GT. This might be with regards to the GR brand getting sold at Lexus dealers, but the back and forth that we have having about sport concept featuring a V8 may finally come to an end. We may have our answers in a couple of days.

 

[sl0519]

this is very interesting. why is Lexus announcing this? I wonder what this could imply, especially with the presence of the Lexus Sport Concept. Also, notice how it says models (plural) rather than just model. From what I can tell the one in the back is the GT3 car, then there is the Lexus sport concept, and then there is the GR GT. This might be with regards to the GR brand getting sold at Lexus dealers, but the back and forth that we have having about sport concept featuring a V8 may finally come to an end. We may have our answers in a couple of days.

They never clearly explained the sports concept earlier, so now they’re just catching up with the specs. Don’t overthink it, nothing to see here. Unless something goes horribly off-script, it’s gonna be a BEV, like… obviously.

 

[Jonas]

The Sport Concept will be a hybrid with the same V8 and architecture as the upcoming GR GT so there is nothing to worry about there. An electric variant will join a few years down the line (based on solid state batteries so its nimble and has good range), but it won't be replacing anything, merely adding to the lineup. Gecko is wrong here. Also since you are in Europe, what do you think Lexus could do to improve it's reputation as a Luxury brand there? It is currently growing, but still nowhere near as big as Mercedes, BMW, Audi, etc.

So what’s needed in Europe.

It’s not necessary for Lexus to make another LFA, as it was expensive and for a chosen few. But, it needs something a step down from that, not as expensive and still luxuary. A bit more performance on the RX, then it will not be enough with a 4 cyl turbo hybrid, for a car that heavy. A lighter car, not a SUV would be another question.

When I bought my RC F and GS F, even the LC 500, they were not cheap, but more reasonably priced than the LFA and as expected for the GR sport now on the way.

Huge value and exclusiveness for money, that’s the way.

In Europe when you have to pay, due to environmental taxes some large penalties, you cold as we’ll get anything other than a turbocharged 4 cyl hybrid, but Lexus has nothing of that sort today. So most Europeans don’t by anything or enough cars.

Either you go electric, Tesla fanatic, or nothing, because it’s not worth it and not interesting. For a lighter sport Lexus - not SUV though - a turbocharged hybrid with a six cyl, or even an efficient 4 cyl turbo will do, even hybrid.

If Lexus had made a chargeable six cyl hybrid in time, they probably have shot the Cayenne out of the water, even in Europe… Maybe, not to late?

Of course Lexus could also at the same time go electric, but don’t overate that’s what consumers want in a forseable future. Remember the Porsche lessons…

Sure, stupid EU politicians could ruin everything by banning all motors, other than fully electric, killing the auto industry, in Europe as well as Japanese exports to Europe, net zero madness…

 

[CRSKTN]

View attachment 10771
They never clearly explained the sports concept earlier, so now they’re just catching up with the specs. Don’t overthink it, nothing to see here. Unless something goes horribly off-script, it’s gonna be a BEV, like… obviously.

Not official ^

 

[Kelvin2020]

Six years of waiting has finally come to an end, and not the result we wanted

 

[DarkSpace6383]

So what’s needed in Europe.

It’s not necessary for Lexus to make another LFA, as it was expensive and for a chosen few. But, it needs something a step down from that, not as expensive and still luxuary. A bit more performance on the RX, then it will not be enough with a 4 cyl turbo hybrid, for a car that heavy. A lighter car, not a SUV would be another question.

When I bought my RC F and GS F, even the LC 500, they were not cheap, but more reasonably priced than the LFA and as expected for the GR sport now on the way.

Huge value and exclusiveness for money, that’s the way.

In Europe when you have to pay, due to environmental taxes some large penalties, you cold as we’ll get anything other than a turbocharged 4 cyl hybrid, but Lexus has nothing of that sort today. So most Europeans don’t by anything or enough cars.

Either you go electric, Tesla fanatic, or nothing, because it’s not worth it and not interesting. For a lighter sport Lexus - not SUV though - a turbocharged hybrid with a six cyl, or even an efficient 4 cyl turbo will do, even hybrid.

If Lexus had made a chargeable six cyl hybrid in time, they probably have shot the Cayenne out of the water, even in Europe… Maybe, not to late?

Of course Lexus could also at the same time go electric, but don’t overate that’s what consumers want in a forseable future. Remember the Porsche lessons…

Sure, stupid EU politicians could ruin everything by banning all motors, other than fully electric, killing the auto industry, in Europe as well as Japanese exports to Europe, net zero madness…

As per the rumour mill, Lexus will release another coupe below LFR based on the Supra. Bestcar is saying it will use a V6.

 

[DarkSpace6383]

View attachment 10771
They never clearly explained the sports concept earlier, so now they’re just catching up with the specs. Don’t overthink it, nothing to see here. Unless something goes horribly off-script, it’s gonna be a BEV, like… obviously.

I wonder why they renamed it from Lexus Electric Sport concept to Lexus Sport Concept them. We will all know in due time though (hopefully tomorrow).

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

@ssun30's and @CRSKTN's points are exactly true. Some of us have seen and touched the LC F. It was co-developed with the LS F. There was a fifth generation GS. The 4.0L TT V8 is real and it was originally developed for Lexus. These are projects that were real, and killed late in development so it's no wonder there were years and rounds of rumors, speculation, and renders. I don't always get it right but I try to be as legitimate as possible, even if I barely make gas money from any of this.

I wish someone would leak these photos of the LC F, LS F, and the 5th generation GS. I never had the privilege of seeing these cars the way you guys have, I've only heard of timelines for new cars.

The GS dying was the start of the end of enthusiast Lexus as we knew it. I'm still not over its death. In fact, I would argue it was Lexus' best car aside from the LFA and LC (need I remind you the initial LC prototype was in fact an elongated 4th generation GS).

In the meantime, I don't dislike Akio Toyoda the way that many others in this forum does because I'm genuinely excited for whats to come for Toyota, GR, and Century. It's just such a dang shame that Lexus was sacrificed in the process. I don't think it's a bad idea for Lexus to have some avantgarde/experimental models, but Lexus cemented themselves as being a true Japanese juggernaut against the German big 3. Also, where the heck is Koji Sato? Why is Simon Humphries everywhere but Koji Sato is nowhere to be seen?!

Sidenote, I wish Carmaker1 was still here always loved to read his messages and insights on Lexus. Hope he's doing okay and still around, I had messaged a few people here asking about him.

He's long gone. He pretty much was harassed out of most forums for the mere sin of telling the truth about upcoming cars. I used to have very extensive conversations with him during his final months of forum posting online and I don't know how many of you guys knew him, but his story was truly legendary. I hope he's doing well now, but with that said, we do need him back.

 

[DarkSpace6383]

I wish someone would leak these photos of the LC F, LS F, and the 5th generation GS. I never had the privilege of seeing these cars the way you guys have, I've only heard of timelines for new cars.

The GS dying was the start of the end of enthusiast Lexus as we knew it. I'm still not over its death. In fact, I would argue it was Lexus' best car aside from the LFA and LC (need I remind you the initial LC prototype was in fact an elongated 4th generation GS).

In the meantime, I don't dislike Akio Toyoda the way that many others in this forum does because I'm genuinely excited for whats to come for Toyota, GR, and Century. It's just such a dang shame that Lexus was sacrificed in the process. I don't think it's a bad idea for Lexus to have some avantgarde/experimental models, but Lexus cemented themselves as being a true Japanese juggernaut against the German big 3. Also, where the heck is Koji Sato? Why is Simon Humphries everywhere but Koji Sato is nowhere to be seen?!


He's long gone. He pretty much was harassed out of most forums for the mere sin of telling the truth about upcoming cars. I used to have very extensive conversations with him during his final months of forum posting online and I don't know how many of you guys knew him, but his story was truly legendary. I hope he's doing well now, but with that said, we do need him back.

Ah yes I agree with your segment on Akio Toyoda. I feel like with the presence of crown Lexus should be pushing up market, maybe more towards C-Segment+ cars and also Porsche. If we draw parallels to the Volkswagen group, GR almost reminds me of a brand like Lamborghini, which is focused entirely on hardcore sports models. However, this doesnt rule out variations of those models existing in other brands within the portfolio (hence my theory of the V8 LFR). I think Toyota can expand into lower-end luxury models via the crown line of "premium" models. My problem with Lexus currently is that they are extremely Toyota+. They also seem to struggle at the higher-end segment, which makes it's position as a legitimate fighter to the germans very shaky. All the german brands seem to do their flagships exceptionally well, and those are the products that people aspire to own. LFR can potentially give that, but that car on it's own wont be enough. Forgive me as this message is a little bit ranty.

Side Note: Since you are an F1 fan the Haas TGR title sponsor news is pretty interesting. I think we could probably see this evolve into a full Toyota works team within the coming years, once the 2026 regs end.

 

[Gor134]

Link for anyone who wants to tune in! Less than an hour left

 

[DarkSpace6383]

Link for anyone who wants to tune in! Less than an hour left

the lexus is fucking electric.