REVEALED! 8th Generation Lexus ES Megathread (ES 350h, ES 350e, ES 500e)

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b.ba

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Sulu said:
This model comes as an EV and a HEV so, yes an ICE will be available in some models.
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Yes I saw that too, it seems like the HEV offerings are already offered in other Toyota/Lexus products. I was just confused the overhangs ballooned in size when these other products weren't designed with such long overhangs.
 
mikeavelli

mikeavelli

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Will1991 said:
@Gecko with that image my mind went right away to the LS+ concept:

2017-lexus-ls-concept.jpg


Some small adaptations but to me it seems based on this, even the side profile and wheels.
There’s even the beluga bit, but it might get some more work.
Another indication that the ES will get a broader appeal, killing the LS?
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What could have been.

IMG_8027.jpeg

Not sure what happened …this the LF-1 limitless and LC F all canned
 
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KonradA

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CRSKTN said:
It's a sedan rz.
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Oh my God, I wish! The only flaw of RZ is being a SUV.
(Allow me to share few thoughts anyway.)

1. The car we've seen today is basically LF-ZC. TBH those two concepts were so disappointing I denied their existence in my mind.
2. I have never been a huge fan of ES mainly because it was never popular in Europe (especially compared to GS) - that's why I'm not attached to it being typical sedan. I understand a new generation is not precisely 4 door coupe but I admit - I do like the body shape.
3. All my positive impressions were destroyed by the interior. I don't get what's going on in contemporary designers' heads but they should learn the meaning of "the sense of place".
4. When it comes to model's positioning, we should not forget Lexus' most luxurious trips are now to be made in LM. I have seen it IRL and it is glorious. I can compare it to my Father's 2007 LS. We may not agree with transition from limousines to vans (I jokingly call them carriages) but it makes sense. Today Mercedes also presented something similar. That being said, if LS is to be abandoned, I still hope for super-luxury driver-oriented Century Sedan worldwide. I can have chauffer in my "carriage" if I want to.
 
Gecko

Gecko

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ssun30 said:
The thing is, as a China-centric product it doesn't even appeal to the Chinese market well. It doesn't have L2 autonomous driving (which is basically a must-have on any car above ¥200k). It doesn't have zero gravity seats. It doesn't have a VIP option (4 seater with full center console). It doesn't have the power or range or range extender. How much do they expect to sell this for? The current ES is already discounted to the moon to maintain the sales target. The OTD price for a base ES200 is ¥210k (less than US$30k) and the top trim 300h can sell for ¥300k. 7 years ago I bought my base 300h for ¥380k. They cannot afford to keep selling 100k cars a year for zero or negative profit.

Here's what they need to fend off challenge from local brands: no less than 700km CLTC range, no less than 500hp, no more than 20 min 80% charge time, L2 autonomous driving standard, zero gravity seats, electric doors, fully active suspension. Then they can talk about returning to the ¥300-500k market. Otherwise, all it can offer now will be available on the much, much cheaper BZ7.

For many years Lexus pretended they exist in a vacuum and believed their customers will buy whatever uncompetitive garbage they make. The truth is their sales growth came from products that have no direct competition. But the moment they face real competition their sales instantly flop. Sure they can claim every year is their best year, until it isn't. The Germans have completely driven them out of the high value market, and now the Chinese are coming for their value conscious market.

I hate the Nokia analogy because cars are durable goods and shouldn't be treated as phones. But we really are looking at a company that doesn't realize the trouble they are in and still believes everything is fine.
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Very insightful and very well sad. Thank you.
 
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cookieyh

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ssun30 said:
The thing is, as a China-centric product it doesn't even appeal to the Chinese market well. It doesn't have L2 autonomous driving (which is basically a must-have on any car above ¥200k). It doesn't have zero gravity seats. It doesn't have a VIP option (4 seater with full center console). It doesn't have the power or range or range extender. How much do they expect to sell this for? The current ES is already discounted to the moon to maintain the sales target. The OTD price for a base ES200 is ¥210k (less than US$30k) and the top trim 300h can sell for ¥300k. 7 years ago I bought my base 300h for ¥380k. They cannot afford to keep selling 100k cars a year for zero or negative profit.

Here's what they need to fend off challenge from local brands: no less than 700km CLTC range, no less than 500hp, no more than 20 min 80% charge time, L2 autonomous driving standard, zero gravity seats, electric doors, fully active suspension. Then they can talk about returning to the ¥300-500k market. Otherwise, all it can offer now will be available on the much, much cheaper BZ7.

For many years Lexus pretended they exist in a vacuum and believed their customers will buy whatever uncompetitive garbage they make. The truth is their sales growth came from products that have no direct competition. But the moment they face real competition their sales instantly flop. Sure they can claim every year is their best year, until it isn't. The Germans have completely driven them out of the high value market, and now the Chinese are coming for their value conscious market.

I hate the Nokia analogy because cars are durable goods and shouldn't be treated as phones. But we really are looking at a company that doesn't realize the trouble they are in and still believes everything is fine.
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5.9s 0-60 mph??? It's MUCH slower than any Chinese EVs in this price range.
 
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carguy420

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🤢🤮 wtf is this? Idk about you, but I'm getting real tired of TMC's BS. This new ES just reeks of low effort and stinginess.
 
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carguy420

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CRSKTN said:
This is literally Toyota throwing in with China and signaling their view that a United States-centric global economy is no longer the long-term trend. At some point Toyota will do the same to China and shift to India, etc. Wherever the most $, least demanding, least sophisticated buyers are is where the next focus is. It's the most efficient part of the curve to live in.

It's almost like when you let morons clog up society, companies can just end up catering to them and it's way easier because they're morons. "Stupid people ruin everything" is the truest statement I have ever come across. Those same morons are the source of every fascist uprising, populist movement, etc.

I imagine you're going to see more market-specific makes & models too, especially as regulations diverge.

Europe is going to be an interesting market. They're going to have to open up a bit to enable their automakers to do enough business in-continent to survive (which is feasible). Efficiencies and local scale take time, but it's worth it, and would go towards re-industrializing the population there.
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Toyota is already doing this in India by partnering up with Suzuki. Suzuki is one of the top selling car brands in India, and Toyota kinda had a hard time at gaining sales in the entry-level car market in India. Toyota is now selling a bunch of rebadged Suzukis in India probably hoping this can bait people over to their brand lol. Reminds me of GM rebadging Suzuki models and selling them in the North American market.
 
bogglo

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The interior was the let down IM0. The fact that we did not hear or see anything about this until reveal is telling.

I never believed an ES will replace LS.
If the crown is now global then maybe the LS has to give way for the Century.
 
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