Toyota Land Cruiser Prado/250 Series Discussion

[ssun30]

they are same size, i guess thats good for everywhere but Europe, but due to emissions they mostly stopped selling it here.

I wonder what European price will be, did anyone announce it so far?

I wouldn't worry or care much about selling an off-road vehicle in the most urbanized part of the world if I were Toyota. Emissions or not they are not going to sell many anyway.

 

[Levi]

Now that I've had a few days to digest it, I'm really liking the Land Cruiser. I think the GX looks a little better, but I could see myself actually buying the LC. The base model is actually kinda charming. Very old school feel. Throw some 33" tires, more offset wheels, and a clean tubular rack on the roof. Very cool, very subtle, very capable.

Yes, looking forward to modified new GX/Prado.

 

[LarryT]

 

[cookieyh]

This looks like the first edition. Are you getting this color in US?

 

[Gecko]

This Land Cruiser has me wondering how many cars is too many cars (for one house) 👀

 

[Levi]

This Land Cruiser has me wondering how many cars is too many cars (for one house) 👀

There are just too many "must have" cars from Toyota and Lexus.

 

[cookieyh]

Japan always get nicer show car than US. The color, aggressive tires..... It looks very cool!

Japan = All Terrain
US = All Season

 

[Gecko]

I've been letting the new Land Cruiser sink in and wondered, if I hadn't just purchased a new GX, which would I want: Land Cruiser or GX 550?

I am surprised to say I think I would rather have the Land Cruiser. I wouldn't buy either until post-refresh (so probably 4+ years), but there are a few key things I like more than the GX.

On the GX, I love the exterior design -- a lot. Land Cruiser, I like the exterior (though not as much as the GX) but definitely like the interior more than the GX. The 12.3" screen seems to fit the space better, I like the shapes of the dash and doors more, and the option of the Java interior seals the deal for me, especially the solid seats. I hate the bi-color GX seats.

I would want any engine except for the V35A-FTS, and I think the 1MPG improvement after 14 years is borderline unacceptable. So, Land Cruiser with 27 MPG combined (10 more than GX 550), hybrid, and 465lb-ft of torque is a sweeter deal for me.

"Land Cruiser" trim, Black exterior, Java interior. ✅

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

I would want any engine except for the V35A-FTS, and I think the 1MPG improvement after 14 years is borderline unacceptable. So, Land Cruiser with 27 MPG combined (10 more than GX 550), hybrid, and 465lb-ft of torque is a sweeter deal for me.

I have a hard time believing it will only have 17 MPG which would mean that the Tundra is more efficient.

Regardless, Lexus needs to update the V35A-FTS to make it more efficient and powerful. I'm in awe that Toyota/Lexus aren't putting more money into further developing their powertrains anymore, even in an ICE-dominant world.

 

[ssun30]

I have a hard time believing it will only have 17 MPG which would mean that the Tundra is more efficient.

Regardless, Lexus needs to update the V35A-FTS to make it more efficient and powerful. I'm in awe that Toyota/Lexus aren't putting more money into further developing their powertrains anymore, even in an ICE-dominant world.

Also needs a way better torque curve. 650N.m is a lot but only after 2400rpm? We are not in the 90s anymore. That is very confusing tuning for a utility engine. The Type 17 (LS500) tune has just 50N.m less but at 1600rpm.

The tuning of Dynamic Force family is all over the place. I don't claim to know more than TMC engineers but their older engines (not counting the disastrous Tacoma 3.5) are all more consistent with their use case.

 

[Gor134]

Maybe the upcoming 4Runner TRD Pro will be the perfect spot for you, Gecko... Potentially if it gets the Tacoma's interior, 2.4t iForce Max like the Taco TRD Pro and LC, and ~58k price?

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Also needs a way better torque curve. 650N.m is a lot but only after 2400rpm? We are not in the 90s anymore. That is very confusing tuning for a utility engine. The Type 17 (LS500) tune has just 50N.m less but at 1600rpm.

Agreed.

The tuning of Dynamic Force family is all over the place. I don't claim to know more than TMC engineers but their older engines (not counting the disastrous Tacoma 3.5) are all more consistent with their use case.

What's crazy is that the 2UR-GSE V8 can hit all the way to low 30's on the highway. So why is the V35A-FTS, which is a smaller engine, turbocharged, and employs modern engine management features that helps it be more frugal on fuel, nowhere near as efficient as the 2UR-GSE on the highway?

 

[Demetrius]

I've been letting the new Land Cruiser sink in and wondered, if I hadn't just purchased a new GX, which would I want: Land Cruiser or GX 550?

I am surprised to say I think I would rather have the Land Cruiser. I wouldn't buy either until post-refresh (so probably 4+ years), but there are a few key things I like more than the GX.

On the GX, I love the exterior design -- a lot. Land Cruiser, I like the exterior (though not as much as the GX) but definitely like the interior more than the GX. The 12.3" screen seems to fit the space better, I like the shapes of the dash and doors more, and the option of the Java interior seals the deal for me, especially the solid seats. I hate the bi-color GX seats.

I would want any engine except for the V35A-FTS, and I think the 1MPG improvement after 14 years is borderline unacceptable. So, Land Cruiser with 27 MPG combined (10 more than GX 550), hybrid, and 465lb-ft of torque is a sweeter deal for me.

"Land Cruiser" trim, Black exterior, Java interior. ✅

The color of the seats and mpg are the biggest gripes for me as well.

The interior color of the '24 GX will be what keeps me waiting until they announce the '25 model to see if they add an interior color. Lexus is known to add different color choices after the first model year.

I can't believe that 17 mpg either. Unacceptable like you said. Why is every other GA-F vehicle posting 4-6 mpg gains(LX went from 14 to 19).
I'm hoping they pull a rabbit out of their hat and get to 19 or 20 mpg combined by the time specs are official. That would go a long way with me. I just can't get behind the 4cyl turbo-hybrid powertrain for complexity and load reasons. Even though I'm not the biggest fan of the TTV6, it'll have 6-7 years of use case by the time I get one.

Nori green + 19/20 mpg + additional interior color choice(Palomino🤤) = a customer for MY2025

 

[Gecko]

Maybe the upcoming 4Runner TRD Pro will be the perfect spot for you, Gecko... Potentially if it gets the Tacoma's interior, 2.4t iForce Max like the Taco TRD Pro and LC, and ~58k price?

Honestly after getting a '23 GX, I don't plan to buy any 4Runners, GXs or Land Cruisers for a while, but after owning 4 4Runners over the years and now 2 GXs, it's hard to not at least play with the idea when new product is released 😁

 

[Gecko]

What's crazy is that the 2UR-GSE V8 can hit all the way to low 30's on the highway. So why is the V35A-FTS, which is a smaller engine, turbocharged, and employs modern engine management features that helps it be more frugal on fuel, nowhere near as efficient as the 2UR-GSE on the highway?

I think it shows just how good Toyota V8s are, and that they probably have further optimization to do on turbocharged motors, which I think is fair considering that the UR V8 is an evolution of the UZ V8, so they had a lot of time to perfect that formula. It is, however, disappointing for people looking at new product to have no V8s and mediocre V6s.

Everyone loves to rap on the 1UR-FE for being old, inefficient, outdated, etc. but two things:

First, for an engine that first debuted 17 years ago, Toyota's latest, greatest, Dynamic Force replacement with 4 more gears in the transmission can only eke out 1 more MPG? I'd be curious to see what the UR V8 could have done with an Atkinson cycle and a 10AT -- my sense is it would be more efficient than the V35A in similar applications.

And second, no V35A-FTS application can match the linear throttle tip-in and response of the UR V8. I give Lexus credit for refining the LS 500 transmission mapping year after year, but it just isn't there yet.

Also it doesn't seem like the newer Tundras are getting close to their advertised mileage. Most folks claimed the old one was 13-14MPG, and it seems most folks are reporting the new one around 15MPG. I've thought about this a lot - why can Ford get good MPG out of their EcoBoosts and Toyota, who builds some of the most efficient NA engines on the planet, can't seem to build efficient SUV/truck motors? Weight? Tuning? What's the problem?

 

[MKIVCrybaby]

I've been letting the new Land Cruiser sink in and wondered, if I hadn't just purchased a new GX, which would I want: Land Cruiser or GX 550?

I am surprised to say I think I would rather have the Land Cruiser. I wouldn't buy either until post-refresh (so probably 4+ years), but there are a few key things I like more than the GX.

On the GX, I love the exterior design -- a lot. Land Cruiser, I like the exterior (though not as much as the GX) but definitely like the interior more than the GX. The 12.3" screen seems to fit the space better, I like the shapes of the dash and doors more, and the option of the Java interior seals the deal for me, especially the solid seats. I hate the bi-color GX seats.

I would want any engine except for the V35A-FTS, and I think the 1MPG improvement after 14 years is borderline unacceptable. So, Land Cruiser with 27 MPG combined (10 more than GX 550), hybrid, and 465lb-ft of torque is a sweeter deal for me.

"Land Cruiser" trim, Black exterior, Java interior. ✅

The power output for the turbo 4 is nearly identical. Lower peak torque. However, the turbo 4 tows much less. 99% of americans dont tow. V35A has its list of problems but we still dont know much from the turbo4.
Toyota took a really confusing position on this landcruiser.
Literally, positioned itself where the 4runner should be tbh. The 4runner will be roughly the same sized car, same engine as the landcruiser. Question is, why pay for a GX/Landcruiser when you can wait for the 4runner and save thousands?

 

[carguy420]

I think it shows just how good Toyota V8s are, and that they probably have further optimization to do on turbocharged motors, which I think is fair considering that the UR V8 is an evolution of the UZ V8, so they had a lot of time to perfect that formula. It is, however, disappointing for people looking at new product to have no V8s and mediocre V6s.

Everyone loves to rap on the 1UR-FE for being old, inefficient, outdated, etc. but two things:

First, for an engine that first debuted 17 years ago, Toyota's latest, greatest, Dynamic Force replacement with 4 more gears in the transmission can only eke out 1 more MPG? I'd be curious to see what the UR V8 could have done with an Atkinson cycle and a 10AT -- my sense is it would be more efficient than the V35A in similar applications.

And second, no V35A-FTS application can match the linear throttle tip-in and response of the UR V8. I give Lexus credit for refining the LS 500 transmission mapping year after year, but it just isn't there yet.

Also it doesn't seem like the newer Tundras are getting close to their advertised mileage. Most folks claimed the old one was 13-14MPG, and it seems most folks are reporting the new one around 15MPG. I've thought about this a lot - why can Ford get good MPG out of their EcoBoosts and Toyota, who builds some of the most efficient NA engines on the planet, can't seem to build efficient SUV/truck motors? Weight? Tuning? What's the problem?

I honestly wished Toyota updated the 4.0L 1GR-FE and 5.7L 3UR-FE and give them the FSE treament, instead of ditching them for these 2 downsized turbocharged engines, the 2.4L turbo T24A and the V35A that have been kinda not that spectacular both in terms of performance and fuel efficiency. Both the 1GR and 3UR in their current FE form should have a ton of room left for performance and efficiency improvements based on what we have seen from other Toyota FE engines that got updated FSE versions with D4-S, higher static compression ratio, wide-angle VVT-i intake cam sprocket that enables the switch between Atkinson and Otto cycle and more efficient cylinder head designs.

 

[Gecko]

Well said ^

 

[TexasFunRunner]

We’ll see some options, but I doubt Toyota will offer aftermarket front bumpers. Too much of a negative impact on front crash ratings. Rock sliders and roof racks, yes. Rear bumper and factory lift, maybe. I’m sure other companies are already working on front bumper designs. Personally, I’d love to see what CBI and ARB come up with.

I can confirm some of the aftermarket companies have already test driven the Land Cruiser. I would think this included the same aftermarket companies working with Toyota on the 2024 Tacoma. It seems safe to assume they are under NDA and have already received the 3D modeling files so they can design their aftermarket parts. I expect we will see announcements by the end of the year.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Tuning?

This.

The reason why BMW has the stupidly efficient B58 is because they employ a lot of ECU and engine management trickery. A regular inline-six making those power figures has no business being this frugal on gas. So to me it looks like they may have went to some extremes in tuning this engine. Although it looks like the gamble paid off because these engines are reliable across the board even with the Jekyll and Hyde nature of the B58, from the insane power they make to it being extremely efficient.

It seems that Toyota/Lexus is slacking off with regard to innovative engine technology. They're just downsizing and adding huge electric motors which doesn't seem to do the job. For example, the T24A-FTS is barely more fuel efficient than the aging 2GR-FKS which everyone lamented how much it was drinking gas, even though when it came out, it was a legend in terms of engine efficiency and power.

I'm starting to see signs that the EV hype is beginning to wane from the manufacturer side and the consumer side, to me it's sensible to develop a new family of six and eight cylinder engines that are reliable, efficient, and powerful.

Toyota and Lexus need to go back to the drawing board.