Toyota BZ4X

[spwolf]

How does Cybertruck compare to Rivian?

I do not know what your point is. Every car maker has a whole range of BEVs coming, including Kia/Hyundai. The BEV market is at the stage where Bitcoin went from 200$ to 500$.

It was not a trick question, i was just wondering does the concept look the same as production because we have real life videos of concept and it looks good.

Hyundai and KIA are already being delivered. They also have stronger version. But again, they are not competitor to Tesla either.

As to Cybertruck vs Rivan, Cybertruck does not exist and what exists looks strange... Rivian looks really good, and again, as if EV people designed and built it. Really cool thing.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

This looks good, and if the computer steering fixes the now well-known problems with the MSP's yoke, that'll be a good dunk on Elon.

 

[Levi]

It was not a trick question, i was just wondering does the concept look the same as production because we have real life videos of concept and it looks good.

I think Toyota released the "concept" which is basically the pre-production car just to release the heat which was building up, especially with all the just new one BEVs models presented by other manufacturers. They had to indicate they will make BEVs on dedicated platforms.

It is funny, Toyota working in silence on BEVs, but all other car makers (except Telsa of course) working in silence on FCEVs.

 

[maiaramdan]

Honestly guys, I read all the argument, but for me I am waiting the next generation Prius with hydrogen ICE instead of stack and a motor

That will be a dream coming true

 

[qtb007]

Honestly guys, I read all the argument, but for me I am waiting the next generation Prius with hydrogen ICE instead of stack and a motor

That will be a dream coming true

I don't think that the Prius will get hydrogen ICE in the US for next gen. It is just too limited of a market at this point. Are hydrogen stations in Cali still without fuel?

I'm personally more interested in a better Prius PHEV than I am the BZ4X. I have a 2016 4Runner that I use as my weekend vehicle when I need the space for camping, biking, home improvement projects, etc. I'm unwilling to get rid of the 4Runner, so the BZ4X is kinda overkill as far as cost and range for my needs. I have a 2019 Corolla HB as my daily driver; lease is up in a year. If the next Prius Prime is 40 mi EV range and more like 180-200hp, I'd be happy to give up my 6MT and skip out on the GR Corolla for super low operating costs. Just take the excellent Rav4 Prime drivetrain and scale things down a bit.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

I know next to nothing about EV tech, but why is it that the FWD-only model is 150kw, but the AWD model adds a 80kw motor in the back but it's only 160kw overall?

Seems lame to me.

 

[Levi]

I know next to nothing about EV tech, but why is it that the FWD-only model is 150kw, but the AWD model adds a 80kw motor in the back but it's only 160kw overall?

Seems lame to me.

Front 150 kW motor is replaced by less powerful 80 kW motor. Makes absolute sense, to make AWD low cost option without paying for extra HP, just as ICEVs with same engine but 2WD or 4WD.

 

[LateToLexus]

Styling is actually pretty good for a Toyota.

Acceleration is lackluster if stats provided above are true. Acceleration is a HUGE issue for EV buyers. We're in the market for an EV vehicle and numerous friends have recently purchased EV vehicles and acceleration is easily amongst the top 3 features considered for all of them. Two went brand new Tesla model X. Having a family schlepper that is quick as a corvette is pretty incredible.

Agree with some posters above, still seems underwhelming.

Many fanboys here still like to take jabs at Elon and Tesla. But he single handedly bent the car industry to his will and forced all auto manufacturers to start/accelerate the production of EV vehicles of their own. They're not perfect vehicles, but they literally produced their first car in 2008. 13 years ago.

 

[Levi]

Acceleration is lackluster if stats provided above are true.

200 PS and 2000 kg, can't have good acceleration. Tesla never had less than 300 PS, and the one which has less, is also 400 kg lighter.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Front 150 kW motor is replaced by less powerful 80 kW motor. Makes absolute sense, to make AWD low cost option without paying for extra HP, just as ICEVs with same engine but 2WD or 4WD.

Ah. I misunderstood.

 

[LS500-18]

The 0-60 times are pretty laughable for an EV but otherwise it looks like a winner in terms of packaging, specs, looks, etc. Hopefully Lexus has a quicker version of this coming out.

The 0-60 time is I think along the lines of the EV mode in my RAV4 Prime. I haven't measured it but I know the 0-60 hybrid time is 5.7 seconds on my R4P, it feels pretty darn quick. Not Tesla quick though LOL.

 

[spwolf]

The 0-60 times are pretty laughable for an EV but otherwise it looks like a winner in terms of packaging, specs, looks, etc. Hopefully Lexus has a quicker version of this coming out.

The 0-60 time is I think along the lines of the EV mode in my RAV4 Prime. I haven't measured it but I know the 0-60 hybrid time is 5.7 seconds on my R4P, it feels pretty darn quick. Not Tesla quick though LOL.

It is a lot faster than your primes EV mode.
EVs always feel fast due to faster response times.

But of course, enter the Tesla, and get super car for same price. Build quality will be worse, materials will be slightly better, multimedia and auto pilot more advanced.

At least range is comparable, and promise of reduction of reduction of winter range is quite interesting.

 

[LateToLexus]

It is a lot faster than your primes EV mode.
EVs always feel fast due to faster response times.

But of course, enter the Tesla, and get super car for same price. Build quality will be worse, materials will be slightly better, multimedia and auto pilot more advanced.

At least range is comparable, and promise of reduction of reduction of winter range is quite interesting.

Build quality is both objective and subjective.

Panel gaps are not great, sure. But would rather take a few mm difference in some panels over say, crash test performance, of which Tesla generally does extremely well at.

i.e., a small cosmetic issue vs. saving your life in a crash......

"build quality" itself is quite subjective as somewhat RAM/Jeep has won numerous "initial quality" awards whilst somehow being the least reliable automobile brand.

As a husband and father, I'd rather have panel gaps but a safer vehicle in a high speed crash.

 

[ssun30]

I'll be convinced Hyundai/Kia have better EVs when they stop setting themselves on fire. LGChem is in a world of troubles this year.

The only thing that dictates the success of this vehicle is price not 0-100 time. If the pricing mirrors ID.4 they have a very good chance. The problem I see is the lack of a SR variant to lower the entry price. They also need to understand they can't make a profit NOW, because they need volume first to bring down average cost. Charging a 'reliability tax' like they do for their ICEV/HEVs does NOT work for EVs because there is no way for them to prove the durability of their EVs until later in the decade.

IMO a fair MSRP would be ¥230k ($36k) for FWD and ¥260k ($41k) for AWD. ID.4 Pure+ (LR) starts at 220k and TM3 SR starts at 235k. ID.4 Prime (LR 4WD) starts at 280k. If the entry price is above ¥270k ($43k) then it's DOA.

ID.4 and ID.6 are doing okay in China. 10k per month is far from underwhelming, only took 6 mo to get there and they are still building up market acceptance. People were very bearish on the ID series when it posted poor results from March to July but eventually it took off.

I couldn't care less about Germany and I doubt Toyota cares either. Europe has traditionally been a hard market for them to break into. BZ4X is capacity-limited to 100k in China. If they reach 8k/mo in a year it will be quite an achievement for them.

Can't wait for the BZ4X to generate enough Double Credit points so we could buy Land Cruisers again 🤣

If speed is an important concern one should have jumped ship and never look back. TMC has already chosen to alienate buyers who prioritize speed in their purchasing decisions. They launched 8 products this year and a common theme among them with the exception of one (IS500) is slow, NX350 being the worst example. Akio has his pet projects and that's about it. I'm going to boldly predict Lexus will not have a 400kW+ EV before 2025, maybe not even before 2030. You can buy twice that power in a Taycan or S Plaid today.

 

[Tompat78]

World premiere of the all-new Toyota bZ4X

Toyota’s first purpose-designed battery electric vehicle (BEV) First model in Toyota’s new bZ – beyond Zero – sub-brand A comfortable, spacious and authentic SUV, available with a new all-wheel drive system with world-class capability Exceptional battery quality and durability founded on a...

newsroom.toyota.eu

Europe is having a premiere on the 2nd of December. Orders are also opening then.
The article also says that a 11kw three-phase on-board charger will be available from Q4 2022.

 

[ssun30]

Panel gaps are not great, sure. But would rather take a few mm difference in some panels over say, crash test performance, of which Tesla generally does extremely well at.

Doing extremely well in crash tests is part of the perk of skateboard-style EVs. You have several hundred kg of batteries acting as the stress member. Huge increase in rigidity. Plus lower CoG for way better rollover resistance. One more good reason to buy any EV.

 

[Levi]

If speed is an important concern one should have jumped ship

... 20 years ago in the ICEV world and never have been interested in Toyota products in first place.

totally agree.

 

[spwolf]

IMO a fair MSRP would be ¥230k ($36k) for FWD and ¥260k ($41k) for AWD. ID.4 Pure+ (LR) starts at 220k and TM3 SR starts at 235k. ID.4 Prime (LR 4WD) starts at 280k. If the entry price is above ¥270k ($43k) then it's DOA.

ID.4 and ID.6 are doing okay in China. 10k per month is far from underwhelming, only took 6 mo to get there and they are still building up market acceptance. People were very bearish on the ID series when it posted poor results from March to July but eventually it took off.

I couldn't care less about Germany and I doubt Toyota cares either. Europe has traditionally been a hard market for them to break into. BZ4X is capacity-limited to 100k in China. If they reach 8k/mo in a year it will be quite an achievement for them.

Not sure why Germany was mentioned, but Toyota is #2 manufacturer in Europe this year. They cracked the market.
Big reason why this is coming out is actually Europe and regulations in Europe. Many important to Toyota markets have >20% plugin vehicle share this year in Europe. That is way beyond anything else.

For US and Japan, this hardly matters today. EV market penetration is tiny.

But I think the biggest benefit TMC will have from this car is that their own engineers will start driving EVs, so they will see how it is important to have >11kwh AC charger day one, how it is important to have good one pedal driving (nothing mentions it so far), how important is the location of charging port, good cooling/heating of battery pack, compatibility with various different charging systems, etc, etc.

Plus how for same money you can buy Tesla that is faster than anything you ever produced, and that it is still fine - it is not that hard to do and you dont have to save that performance for cars you want to see at $200k.

 

[NXracer]

The BZ is hopefully either a stop gap for the their future or a sign of whats to come to Toyota and what they did to the american OEM status quo back in the 70s. Hopefully its the former.

The frunk I assume is not a thing on this since theres alot set up like an ICEV vehicle.

 

[Tompat78]

Not sure why Germany was mentioned, but Toyota is #2 manufacturer in Europe this year. They cracked the market.
Big reason why this is coming out is actually Europe and regulations in Europe. Many important to Toyota markets have >20% plugin vehicle share this year in Europe. That is way beyond anything else.

For US and Japan, this hardly matters today. EV market penetration is tiny.

But I think the biggest benefit TMC will have from this car is that their own engineers will start driving EVs, so they will see how it is important to have >11kwh AC charger day one, how it is important to have good one pedal driving (nothing mentions it so far), how important is the location of charging port, good cooling/heating of battery pack, compatibility with various different charging systems, etc, etc.

Plus how for same money you can buy Tesla that is faster than anything you ever produced, and that it is still fine - it is not that hard to do and you dont have to save that performance for cars you want to see at $200k

It does have one pedal driving