Lexus Announces Brand Transformation Concept Coming March 30th

Posted by Kevin on March 23rd, 2021

Lexus will announce details on a major brand transformation during a press conference on Tuesday March 30th.

Accompanying the announcement will be a new concept vehicle that illustrates the future direction of the Lexus brand. Looking at the teasers provided, it is obvious that this is the same concept that was shown during the Direct4 all-wheel-drive announcement, and again in February when mentioning a new “brand identity concept.”

While we can only see the side profile of this concept for now, it does look like Lexus’ first foray into the crossover coupe segment, and that would make sense based on speculation around the LF-Z and RZ 450e trademarks. A trademark for the Lexus LF-Z was registered in Europe last month, likely revealing the concept’s name. This fits nicely with another recent trademark from Lexus, as they registered the RZ 450e nameplate in both North America and Europe late last year.

We will provide full coverage on March 30th beginning at 7:00pm. Here’s the full press release:

Lexus will announce details of its brand transformation efforts online on Tuesday, March 30, 2021 at 7:00pm, along with the Concept Car which symbolizes the next generation of Lexus. Ahead of the digital world premiere, Lexus has released an additional preview image of the Concept Car.

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Comments
mikeavelli
Levi said
have a look at FWD Volvos with their RWD proportions. Acura is far from there.


my fave BEVs are Jaguar I Pace on Polestar 2. Glad Lexus makes an equivalent of those, and from the side profile it is best looking, including any BEV from Germany (except of course the Audi/Porsche sedan). looks like Lexus took care of front overhang too.
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I don’t think a fwd needs RWD proportions. Audi has mastered being fwd based and looking superb. They ain’t faking RWD. There needs to be authenticity. Acura had a great success with the styling of the 3G TL. It wasn’t a fake RWD look, it just was a damn good looking car. Since that vehicle they have completely missed with the ugly TL, the bland TLX and weird MMC and now the over exaggerated 2G TLX.
Acura did the same mistake with the Vigor if anyone remembers that car. A huge long hood and RWD look with a tiny interior. They did the same thing.

Relating things to this thread, Lexus has 100% heard and acted on complaints on the front overhangs. The non f-sport nx in particular was mentioned and we all know that looks weird from the front. Thus I am excited to see this concept.
L
mikeavelli said
Acura did the same mistake with the Vigor is anyone remembers that car. A huge long hood and RWD look with a tiny interior.
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But a very good looking car with a very interesting symmetrical FWD transmission. In their defense, most carmakers that faked RWD wanted to make RWD, they just could not. Alfa 156 is one example, Giulia finally did it, Alfa Brera/159, Mazda 6 concept was RWD, now it finally will be. Acura ZDX had to be RWD, but that platform was cancelled, ended being an MDX.
mikeavelli
Levi said
But a very good looking car with a very interesting symmetrical FWD transmission. In their defense, most carmakers that faked RWD wanted to make RWD, they just could not. Alfa 156 is one example, Giulia finally did it, Alfa Brera/159, Mazda 6 concept was RWD, now it finally will be. Acura ZDX had to be RWD, but that platform was cancelled, ended being an MDX.
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Yes Vigor was a good looking car. Arguably their best sedan to date was the Legend. FWD but had tidy proportions of an XL Accord which also looked good.
The entire point of a fwd car is efficiency and space. Acura decided to lose both with the current tlx for style. The thing is the style is okay and I think the IS looks far more cohesive and handsome.
S
spwolf said
i mentioned powertrain there, not anything else. I dont think anyone will know what Polestar was in 5 years from now, i dont think it competes with anything really. Also - this is like LF-C, not crap.

So what I meant was:
- high hp, low 3s 0-100kmh (or less)
- super fast charging that actually works in practice (good battery chemistry and cooling)
- high capacity battery
- long range under WLTP/EPA
- low wh/km consumption

Then you can add Lexus quality and feel and you can price it pretty high.
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Unlikely. Knowing how conservative they are, I expect the battery chemistry to be NCM622 at best. 811 still hasn't proved its safety after 3 years, so I don't think Toyota is comfortable with using it. I don't think they will use anything beyond 622 until solid state becomes available.

That being said, 523 to 622 is a greater jump compared to 622 to 811.

I don't worry about the kWh/100km consumption part, as Toyota is on-par with Tesla and ahead of everybody else in that area.
Will1991
@ssun30 , what's your take on this powertrain specifications?
Gecko
mikeavelli said
The reason I disagree is because acura is faking it. It is not a RWD car and even with its shawd it’s mostly the front wheels driving the car. Instead of making a proper RWD car they faked it. And now it has two problems. One it looks way to forced and two, interior room is no better than the smaller IS. As a matter of fact, interior and trunk room are near identical to the much smaller last generation. I’ve finally seen the car in person and while it is vastly more interesting that the last model, the front end just looks forced on. Is it ugly? Absolutely not.

Contrarily, the ES has great proportions for a fwd base car with optional AWD now. They prioritized what is is most important to someone In this class and it is room. The interior is immense and a huge selling point. And the ES doesn’t look bad at all, it looks great. I can’t say I walk in our garage and hate the overhangs. They visually have done a good job with it. I do think most past ES models were designed worse.
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Whether or it's actually FWD or RWD is becoming less important in the age of AWD and batteries when we are talking about the design principles of long hood and shorter overhangs... there have been many FWD cars with nice proportions and plenty of RWD ones with awful overhangs and short hoods. It is all a matter of design choice, and then also packaging, which is definitely where Acura has fallen short. Many FWD cars have been designed with "RWDish proportions" and the Audi A6 is a great example. Audi S6 and RS6 look great, and have great interior room. The new TLX has less interior room than the old one because the platform is poorly packaged.

With no GS, it seems logical that the next ES will be elevated, so while it may have a FWD-biased chassis, I am betting there will be upper level models with Direct4, potentially F Sport Performance or even F. It's all possible with batteries, especially when Lexus could do something like turbo 4 + hybrid + direct 4 for V8-like performance, and eliminate much of the front mass needed to accommodate a V8. All the sudden a performance-oriented ES with a tidy front overhang, longer hood and more swept back roofline is very possible -- and likely.
I
Lexus has to jazz up its future offerings. It has to blend sportiness, attractiveness and availability of features.

I think the new Golf R has basic massage seats up front and also rear wheel torque vectoring. For Lexus, one has to get to the LS to get the massage seats. I'm not shelling out $120k CAD on a hybrid LS when I don't need that much interior space and when I don't like driving big vehicles just so I can have massage seats when I have a Panasonic unit at home.

I was looking at the Porsche configurator a few nights ago and noticed when playing around with the Taycan and the Macan S that a lot of bells and whistles (creature comforts like 14 or 18-way adjustable front seats and technology like PTV Plus or insulated windows) offered on the $120k Taycan can also be ordered on the $65k Macan S. I'm not saying Lexus provide that many configurations but at least think about why people who are not brand snobs are buying non-Lexus vehicles. Is it some personalization or a few creature comforts they don't find on a mid-level Lexus?

In terms of exterior design, I think Audi makes the nicest vehicles and of course they all look alike and look great except for the A7 and Q7 haha. With Porsche, sure the 911 and Cayman look great, the current Macan and Cayenne are good enough but yeah the Taycan and Panamera to me are not so good looking. The 2021 IS looks much better except for that one piece tail light design. Hopefully they get it right on the future vehicles. Instead of modifying the interior design of each Lexus vehicle to remain unique, they should get the design properly and just execute across. I'm sure the bean counters will be very happy about the cost savings. I don't think someone looking for a LS will be buying a IS anyway or a UX buyer thinking about going the RX.

^ You are right about Lexus needing to elevate its vehicles and use its industry leading hybrid technology to improve fuel economy, performance and handling dynamics. The UX, NX, ES just don't cut it for me. They're not much different from Toyota vehicles maybe except for lower NVH and nicer interiors and somewhat better handling. Well our 16 RAV4H really drives like a POS but its reliable and will do for the time being, likewise for our 11 Accord coupe and 12 CT200h until Lexus comes out with compelling products with fewer compromises (and price them accordingly, be it slightly higher than today's pricing).
S
internalaudit said
You are right about Lexus needing to elevate its vehicles and use its industry leading hybrid technology to improve fuel economy, performance and handling dynamics. The UX, NX, ES just don't cut it for me. They're not much different from Toyota vehicles maybe except for lower NVH and nicer interiors and somewhat better handling.
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hm, really? I think there is larger difference between Lexus and Toyota than Audi and VW/Škoda.
I
spwolf said
hm, really? I think there is larger difference between Lexus and Toyota than Audi and VW/Škoda.
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So Toyota TNGA < current Lexus in the handling department?

Are you suggesting that the latest RAV4 on the TNGA drives worse than the current NX?

The IS, RC, GS do come with double wishbone suspension up front and these sedans/coupe do have great handling dynamics compared to a Camry or Avalon but I think all the SUV's have Macpherson Struts upfront and we know with FWD-biased and basic AWD, how these SUVs handle not so well compared to many of the competition including Acura's with SH-AWD.

At least with Audi, they have Sports Differential (ala SH-AWD) that most VW vehicles don't have. Now the Golf R gets it.

Sure maybe most buyers don't know about torque vectoring but for those who do and can afford the $2000 upgrade penalty, it's almost silly not to opt for them when configuring a mid-level FWD-biased Audi.
S
Will1991 said
@ssun30 , what's your take on this powertrain specifications?
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75kWh 288-cell battery, two-motor AWD with ~225KW on standard trim and ~400km WLTP range. Whether they will launch a 100kWh 384-cell, 300KW higher trim with 500km+ WLTP range is unknown. The Toyota version (BZ?) has 150kW FWD and 160kW AWD options but the Lexus version should offer a lot more power.

CHAdeMO 3.0 supports up to 400kW but they will unlikely support the full speed and use the 60kW standard speed instead. I think being their first high volume EV product a CCS model will be produced for EU specifically. The C-HR EV/UX300e are mainly for the Chinese market which is why there is no CCS support.
F1 Silver Arrows
mikeavelli said
I don’t think a fwd needs RWD proportions. Audi has mastered being fwd based and looking superb. They ain’t faking RWD. There needs to be authenticity. Acura had a great success with the styling of the 3G TL. It wasn’t a fake RWD look, it just was a damn good looking car. Since that vehicle they have completely missed with the ugly TL, the bland TLX and weird MMC and now the over exaggerated 2G TLX.
Acura did the same mistake with the Vigor if anyone remembers that car. A huge long hood and RWD look with a tiny interior. They did the same thing.

Relating things to this thread, Lexus has 100% heard and acted on complaints on the front overhangs. The non f-sport nx in particular was mentioned and we all know that looks weird from the front. Thus I am excited to see this concept.
Click to expand...

I completely and totally disagree with this on a fundamental level.

Audi has major design issues with regard to the how the engine is place with relation to the front axle. They have a decent dash-to-axle ratio, but since they have a longitudinal engine + FWD based combination, and that creates one huge fundamental issue if you execute it incorrectly. And you very well know which issue I'm talking about.

If Audi fixed their chassis design by pushing the front axle a couple of inches towards the front, this greatening the dash-to-axle ratio, they wouldn't have to deal with the majority of their engine to be on top and in front of the front axle. That creates a boat load of unnecessary unsprung mass and creates terminal understeer. This is an inherent design flaw that makes Audis technically and dynamically inferior to their competitors. Quattro, being the legendary f*cking AWD system that it is (it's almost godlike), helps it by ten orders of magnitudes however their dash-to-axle ratio remains the same, and they still have their engines right on top (and in front) of the front axle, giving it WAYYY too much weight to push around.

So I don't get this logic of them not "faking RWD" and the notion of an Audi being authentic but the Acura isn't. Because one, that's false, normal FWD cars have way smaller dash-to-axle ratios. And two, Audi's chassis STILL needs improvement.

I'll give you a horrifying example that'll make you sh*t your pants. The first generation Bentley Continental was a massive sales success for Bentley, and in GT3-R form, that almost 5000 pound Bentley MOVED. However, it used a very old Audi design. It was luxurious, but it wasn't the most capable thing out there until very later towards the mid-2010's where they gave it some much needed updates and the first generation Continental was in its last years. That old Audi design, basically had the Bentley's insanely huge V8's and W12's poke out further than the headlight bulb. Hope that paints a picture as to why it's crucially important it is to have good, solid, chassis design and that the notion of Acura not being authentic is very confusing. If that isn't horrid design, then I don't know what is.
Lexus Cohen
Whatever they have cooking, if production is planned expect to see it in 5-10 years!
bogglo
Lexus Cohen said
Whatever they have cooking, if production is planned expect to see it in 5-10 years!
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Why?
mikeavelli
F1 Silver Arrows said
I completely and totally disagree with this on a fundamental level.

Audi has major design issues with regard to the how the engine is place with relation to the front axle. They have a decent dash-to-axle ratio, but since they have a longitudinal engine + FWD based combination, and that creates one huge fundamental issue if you execute it incorrectly. And you very well know which issue I'm talking about.

If Audi fixed their chassis design by pushing the front axle a couple of inches towards the front, this greatening the dash-to-axle ratio, they wouldn't have to deal with the majority of their engine to be on top and in front of the front axle. That creates a boat load of unnecessary unsprung mass and creates terminal understeer. This is an inherent design flaw that makes Audis technically and dynamically inferior to their competitors. Quattro, being the legendary f*cking AWD system that it is (it's almost godlike), helps it by ten orders of magnitudes however their dash-to-axle ratio remains the same, and they still have their engines right on top (and in front) of the front axle, giving it WAYYY too much weight to push around.

So I don't get this logic of them not "faking RWD" and the notion of an Audi being authentic but the Acura isn't. Because one, that's false, normal FWD cars have way smaller dash-to-axle ratios. And two, Audi's chassis STILL needs improvement.

I'll give you a horrifying example that'll make you sh*t your pants. The first generation Bentley Continental was a massive sales success for Bentley, and in GT3-R form, that almost 5000 pound Bentley MOVED. However, it used a very old Audi design. It was luxurious, but it wasn't the most capable thing out there until very later towards the mid-2010's where they gave it some much needed updates and the first generation Continental was in its last years. That old Audi design, basically had the Bentley's insanely huge V8's and W12's poke out further than the headlight bulb. Hope that paints a picture as to why it's crucially important it is to have good, solid, chassis design and that the notion of Acura not being authentic is very confusing. If that isn't horrid design, then I don't know what is.
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All I know is I’ve never looked at an Audi and said “wow that needs to look rwd”. If anything they are sometimes bland. Contrarily Acura can’t design anything good. They went overboard with the dash/axle ratio and while the car is better looking that last, it lost all the benefits of being a fwd car.

Audi is authentic in their design, it might be boring to some but it ain’t trying to be RWD. They have embraced their fwd-awd origins. Contrarily Acura is trying to look RWD when it’s fwd. It is a fake. Acura knows how to design a good looking fwd car. The Legend and 3G TL are examples of it.
I
bogglo said
Why?
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He wants you to buy an Audi from him now. :)
Lexus Cohen
internalaudit said
He wants you to buy an Audi from him now. :)
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Lol, you're funny! I'm pretty sure some people here are wise enough to not switch from a Lexus to an audi.
Lexus Cohen
OlFius said
Is this called a crossover coupe? I don't see the coupe.
Looks more like a lifted sedan to me. Not a fan.
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What on earth is that thing?
Tragic Bronson
Lexus Cohen said
Lol, you're funny! I'm pretty sure some people here are wise enough to not switch from a Lexus to an audi.
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Can you do an RS6 Avant for 50% off? I would buy tomorrow 🤣
I
Lexus Cohen said
Lol, you're funny! I'm pretty sure some people here are wise enough to not switch from a Lexus to an audi.
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If I was part of the majority of car shoppers who lease every three or four years, I wouldn't mind an Audi. The newest interior looks great.
Will1991
ssun30 said
75kWh 288-cell battery, two-motor AWD with ~225KW on standard trim and ~400km WLTP range. Whether they will launch a 100kWh 384-cell, 300KW higher trim with 500km+ WLTP range is unknown. The Toyota version (BZ?) has 150kW FWD and 160kW AWD options but the Lexus version should offer a lot more power.

CHAdeMO 3.0 supports up to 400kW but they will unlikely support the full speed and use the 60kW standard speed instead. I think being their first high volume EV product a CCS model will be produced for EU specifically. The C-HR EV/UX300e are mainly for the Chinese market which is why there is no CCS support.
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That would be 2A on front axle and 2B for rear Axle:

image.png


From what I'm reading, UX300e is quite efficient and Toyota could easily improve it using the same DENSO SiC semiconductors they applied into the Mirai.

This paired with a 75kWh would have a very good real world range, similar to what Tesla currently offers with the TM3LR AWD.

Performance would be acceptable as well!

NCM622 or NCM811 doesn't really matters if there is a nice compromise between range, charging speed and reliability.

Really hope you're right! :)
mikeavelli
Tragic Bronson said
Can you do an RS6 Avant for 50% off? I would buy tomorrow 🤣
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im in for this hahahha
Lexus Cohen
Tragic Bronson said
Can you do an RS6 Avant for 50% off? I would buy tomorrow
Click to expand...

Tragic Bronson said
They charge 15-20k over sticker, good luck with 50% off 🤣😂
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Tragic Bronson said
Can you do an RS6 Avant for 50% off? I would buy tomorrow 🤣
Click to expand...
Tragic Bronson
Lexus Cohen said
🤣
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cbf7b15a399ce1e005f9ff44a5f0504b.gif
Will1991
AWD BEV Confirmed by Lexus Europe:

M
The most future-forward thinking Lexus has been since the Minority Report concept? (I’m ignoring the hideous LF-30)

In those times, a Lexus car in a futuristic sci-fi film made absolute sense. Today, we would more likely see Audi or Mercedes.
I
Will1991 said
AWD BEV Confirmed by Lexus Europe:

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How do you know it's an AWD BEV from the video? I watched it twice and just enjoyed the CGI haha.

Hopefully with torque vectoring. Come on, it's like a $1,700 CAD option on the Taycan here in Canada.

View attachment 4716
mikeavelli
internalaudit said
How do you know it's an AWD BEV from the video? I watched it twice and just enjoyed the CGI haha.

Hopefully with torque vectoring. Come on, it's like a $1,700 CAD option on the Taycan here in Canada.

View attachment 4716
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Im thinking it might debut the Direct4 system. Totally speculation on my part.
I
mikeavelli said
Im thinking it might debut the Direct4 system. Totally speculation on my part.
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Damn, still no rear axle torque vectoring haha. Even the Golf R Mark 8 has it now.

Direct 4 should be the base system for any AWD Lexus hybrid.
Will1991
internalaudit said
How do you know it's an AWD BEV from the video? I watched it twice and just enjoyed the CGI haha.

Hopefully with torque vectoring. Come on, it's like a $1,700 CAD option on the Taycan here in Canada.

View attachment 4716
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At 4 seconds into the movie:

image.png


And yes, I know, I'm a PhotoShop master ahahahah

From the picture above we can also see it's eTNGA platform (given battery pack proportions) and most likely water-cooled, it's not a very good design to be air-cooled.

new-toyota-e-tnga-platform-detailed-every-model-will-be-electrified-by-2025_8.jpg


As far as torque vectoring goes, Lexus isn't clear, but it seems there is at least some kind of brake-bias torque control.

mikeavelli said
Im thinking it might debut the Direct4 system. Totally speculation on my part.
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It should be, this concept was briefly mentioned in the Direct 4 presentation:




@Gecko , considering front/rear overhangs… From the eTNGA Toyota presentation I’ve shared above, this car should have a long front overhang and a short rear overhang… Given only C, with a small battery pack shows a short overhang combined with a short wheelbase…

This may not mean a long front overhang like the ones they’ve now… It could only mean a long front overhang for a eTNGA car… Let’s wait for the production version.
mikeavelli
internalaudit said
Damn, still no rear axle torque vectoring haha. Even the Golf R Mark 8 has it now.

Direct 4 should be the base system for any AWD Lexus hybrid.
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Direct4 is superior to torque vectoring? No?

M