Lexus UX Crossover to be Brand’s First Full-Electric Vehicle

IDK
Still not convinced with the current BEV range and charging time

IDK
Still not convinced with the current BEV range and charging time

IDK
Still not convinced with the current BEV range and charging time

krew

I wonder if North America will get the CT back -- any electric drivetrain that works in the CT should also work in the UX crossover. It's a while away, guess it will depend on the current market.

I think they dont have any illusions about doing small electric vehicle anymore... it is proven by now that market wants only desirable ones - so unique EV with luxury and desirability factor, if possible an SUV.

Leaf, Zoe, Bolt, Prius PHEV, etc, all sold with huge discounts. Previous gen Prius PHEV had such big discount that often price was cheaper than regular Prius.

Jaguar I-Pace is what everyone needs to do now, until new batteries shift it all.

And Toyota is already in finalizing phase of its plan for NA EV production... few months ago we heard in news how they are finalizing supplier list... so maybe in that new Toyota-Mazda plant?

krew

I wonder if North America will get the CT back -- any electric drivetrain that works in the CT should also work in the UX crossover. It's a while away, guess it will depend on the current market.

I think they dont have any illusions about doing small electric vehicle anymore... it is proven by now that market wants only desirable ones - so unique EV with luxury and desirability factor, if possible an SUV.

Leaf, Zoe, Bolt, Prius PHEV, etc, all sold with huge discounts. Previous gen Prius PHEV had such big discount that often price was cheaper than regular Prius.

Jaguar I-Pace is what everyone needs to do now, until new batteries shift it all.

And Toyota is already in finalizing phase of its plan for NA EV production... few months ago we heard in news how they are finalizing supplier list... so maybe in that new Toyota-Mazda plant?

krew

I wonder if North America will get the CT back -- any electric drivetrain that works in the CT should also work in the UX crossover. It's a while away, guess it will depend on the current market.

I think they dont have any illusions about doing small electric vehicle anymore... it is proven by now that market wants only desirable ones - so unique EV with luxury and desirability factor, if possible an SUV.

Leaf, Zoe, Bolt, Prius PHEV, etc, all sold with huge discounts. Previous gen Prius PHEV had such big discount that often price was cheaper than regular Prius.

Jaguar I-Pace is what everyone needs to do now, until new batteries shift it all.

And Toyota is already in finalizing phase of its plan for NA EV production... few months ago we heard in news how they are finalizing supplier list... so maybe in that new Toyota-Mazda plant?

Now that Toyota/Lexus has announced 2020 for a BEV and 2021 for solid state batteries, I guess I'll be rocking my 02 Civic until then. We have the RAV4H to tide us over in the meantime anyway. :)

Now that Toyota/Lexus has announced 2020 for a BEV and 2021 for solid state batteries, I guess I'll be rocking my 02 Civic until then. We have the RAV4H to tide us over in the meantime anyway. :)

Now that Toyota/Lexus has announced 2020 for a BEV and 2021 for solid state batteries, I guess I'll be rocking my 02 Civic until then. We have the RAV4H to tide us over in the meantime anyway. :)

It puzzles me, how most here have ignored, the only reason Toyota is going to deal with BEVs is China.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...rce-toyota-into-electric-u-turn-idUSKBN17L1VC

Some advisors claim, plug-in EVs will change nothing, except for establishing China as the absolute dominant power in terms of global economy and geopolitics, because China controls rare earth metal supply. Most probably, EV and battery component material prices will skyrocket in the next years.

Only Chemical Industry can solve the environmental disaster problem. They suggest establishing necessary industrial production methods that will revert the results of the environmental disaster. Which means, energy fuel will be a byproduct of a self sufficient Chemical Industry.

I think, that's the target of economies, aiming to become self sustainable and therefore hydrogen societies, such as the Japanese.

It puzzles me, how most here have ignored, the only reason Toyota is going to deal with BEVs is China.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...rce-toyota-into-electric-u-turn-idUSKBN17L1VC

Some advisors claim, plug-in EVs will change nothing, except for establishing China as the absolute dominant power in terms of global economy and geopolitics, because China controls rare earth metal supply. Most probably, EV and battery component material prices will skyrocket in the next years.

Only Chemical Industry can solve the environmental disaster problem. They suggest establishing necessary industrial production methods that will revert the results of the environmental disaster. Which means, energy fuel will be a byproduct of a self sufficient Chemical Industry.

I think, that's the target of economies, aiming to become self sustainable and therefore hydrogen societies, such as the Japanese.

It puzzles me, how most here have ignored, the only reason Toyota is going to deal with BEVs is China.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...rce-toyota-into-electric-u-turn-idUSKBN17L1VC

Some advisors claim, plug-in EVs will change nothing, except for establishing China as the absolute dominant power in terms of global economy and geopolitics, because China controls rare earth metal supply. Most probably, EV and battery component material prices will skyrocket in the next years.

Only Chemical Industry can solve the environmental disaster problem. They suggest establishing necessary industrial production methods that will revert the results of the environmental disaster. Which means, energy fuel will be a byproduct of a self sufficient Chemical Industry.

I think, that's the target of economies, aiming to become self sustainable and therefore hydrogen societies, such as the Japanese.

isanatori

It puzzles me, how most here have ignored, the only reason Toyota is going to deal with BEVs is China.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...rce-toyota-into-electric-u-turn-idUSKBN17L1VC

Some advisors claim, plug-in EVs will change nothing, except for establishing China as the absolute dominant power in terms of global economy and geopolitics, because China controls rare earth metal supply. Most probably, EV and battery component material prices will skyrocket in the next years.

Only Chemical Industry can solve the environmental disaster problem. They suggest establishing necessary industrial production methods that will revert the results of the environmental disaster. Which means, energy fuel will be a byproduct of a self sufficient Chemical Industry.

I think, that's the target of economies, aiming to become self sustainable and therefore hydrogen societies, such as the Japanese.

You are right in that all nation's EV strategies are essentially energy policies. And you see Toyota is getting ready for China's monopoly on rare earth with its recent development of low rare earth usage motors.

China was the reason Toyota RUSHED its BEV plans. A heavily electrified fleet has always been Toyota's goals and it never bet on FCEV as its sole strategy since Japan and Korea are the only countries committed to Hydrogen Economy (and of course Koreans never buy japanese cars).

If Toyota didn't want BEV it won't be developing a 2030s-era battery (Li-Air) since the 2000s.

isanatori

It puzzles me, how most here have ignored, the only reason Toyota is going to deal with BEVs is China.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...rce-toyota-into-electric-u-turn-idUSKBN17L1VC

Some advisors claim, plug-in EVs will change nothing, except for establishing China as the absolute dominant power in terms of global economy and geopolitics, because China controls rare earth metal supply. Most probably, EV and battery component material prices will skyrocket in the next years.

Only Chemical Industry can solve the environmental disaster problem. They suggest establishing necessary industrial production methods that will revert the results of the environmental disaster. Which means, energy fuel will be a byproduct of a self sufficient Chemical Industry.

I think, that's the target of economies, aiming to become self sustainable and therefore hydrogen societies, such as the Japanese.

You are right in that all nation's EV strategies are essentially energy policies. And you see Toyota is getting ready for China's monopoly on rare earth with its recent development of low rare earth usage motors.

China was the reason Toyota RUSHED its BEV plans. A heavily electrified fleet has always been Toyota's goals and it never bet on FCEV as its sole strategy since Japan and Korea are the only countries committed to Hydrogen Economy (and of course Koreans never buy japanese cars).

If Toyota didn't want BEV it won't be developing a 2030s-era battery (Li-Air) since the 2000s.

isanatori

It puzzles me, how most here have ignored, the only reason Toyota is going to deal with BEVs is China.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...rce-toyota-into-electric-u-turn-idUSKBN17L1VC

Some advisors claim, plug-in EVs will change nothing, except for establishing China as the absolute dominant power in terms of global economy and geopolitics, because China controls rare earth metal supply. Most probably, EV and battery component material prices will skyrocket in the next years.

Only Chemical Industry can solve the environmental disaster problem. They suggest establishing necessary industrial production methods that will revert the results of the environmental disaster. Which means, energy fuel will be a byproduct of a self sufficient Chemical Industry.

I think, that's the target of economies, aiming to become self sustainable and therefore hydrogen societies, such as the Japanese.

You are right in that all nation's EV strategies are essentially energy policies. And you see Toyota is getting ready for China's monopoly on rare earth with its recent development of low rare earth usage motors.

China was the reason Toyota RUSHED its BEV plans. A heavily electrified fleet has always been Toyota's goals and it never bet on FCEV as its sole strategy since Japan and Korea are the only countries committed to Hydrogen Economy (and of course Koreans never buy japanese cars).

If Toyota didn't want BEV it won't be developing a 2030s-era battery (Li-Air) since the 2000s.

Welcome new member @internalaudit

Welcome new member @internalaudit

Welcome new member @internalaudit

Actually, although China is a major reason, one other reason why Toyota and many other car manufacturers haven't jumped on the bandwagon is because these batteries cost a lot more than engines + transmissions + R&D. This only means smaller profit margins when so far only the Nissan Leaf EV is the mass market BEV available.

Eventually, most car makers will shift to BEV if it means cheaper production costs (higher and higher CAFE requirements) and much lower warranty claims. I don't ever think the engine or transmission is a competitive advantage because lots of car makers outsource transmissions from partners anyway.

The losers in the BEV adoption are car dealerships but even then, they're not going to be deprived of maintenance and repair work but will just be able to upsell on still needless services a lot less.

Toyota already has everything in place if you look at the Prius Prime. Bump the battery size and do away with the engine, and we already get a BEV. I know because we have a RAV4H and it's been rock solid for the past two years.

Actually, although China is a major reason, one other reason why Toyota and many other car manufacturers haven't jumped on the bandwagon is because these batteries cost a lot more than engines + transmissions + R&D. This only means smaller profit margins when so far only the Nissan Leaf EV is the mass market BEV available.

Eventually, most car makers will shift to BEV if it means cheaper production costs (higher and higher CAFE requirements) and much lower warranty claims. I don't ever think the engine or transmission is a competitive advantage because lots of car makers outsource transmissions from partners anyway.

The losers in the BEV adoption are car dealerships but even then, they're not going to be deprived of maintenance and repair work but will just be able to upsell on still needless services a lot less.

Toyota already has everything in place if you look at the Prius Prime. Bump the battery size and do away with the engine, and we already get a BEV. I know because we have a RAV4H and it's been rock solid for the past two years.

Actually, although China is a major reason, one other reason why Toyota and many other car manufacturers haven't jumped on the bandwagon is because these batteries cost a lot more than engines + transmissions + R&D. This only means smaller profit margins when so far only the Nissan Leaf EV is the mass market BEV available.

Eventually, most car makers will shift to BEV if it means cheaper production costs (higher and higher CAFE requirements) and much lower warranty claims. I don't ever think the engine or transmission is a competitive advantage because lots of car makers outsource transmissions from partners anyway.

The losers in the BEV adoption are car dealerships but even then, they're not going to be deprived of maintenance and repair work but will just be able to upsell on still needless services a lot less.

Toyota already has everything in place if you look at the Prius Prime. Bump the battery size and do away with the engine, and we already get a BEV. I know because we have a RAV4H and it's been rock solid for the past two years.

internalaudit

Toyota already has everything in place if you look at the Prius Prime. Bump the battery size and do away with the engine, and we already get a BEV. I know because we have a RAV4H and it's been rock solid for the past two years.

No they can't. The Prime's battery uses a power-density optimized chemistry. It weighs 260 lbs while only having 8.8 kWh of raw charge (~6 usable). A Prius EV with the same capacity as a Model 3 will have a 2,000 lbs battery.

That's why PHEV is a sound idea on paper but a bad idea in practice: you can only have a battery that is either power-dense or energy-dense, but PHEVs require something in between, so you end up with a compromise that leads to nowhere. Toyota has never developed an energy-density optimized Li-ion battery because Li-ion is a dead end.

Toyota's first BEVs in China will outsource the entire electric powertrain to some indigenous manufacturers. These cars are just like the RAV4EVs that were legally mandated by California. In fact Toyota is so unenthusiastic about the project it used bin parts from the XP90 Yaris and E120 Corolla (produced in the last decade). They are so embarrassed about them that these EVs won't even carry a Toyota badge.

internalaudit

Toyota already has everything in place if you look at the Prius Prime. Bump the battery size and do away with the engine, and we already get a BEV. I know because we have a RAV4H and it's been rock solid for the past two years.

No they can't. The Prime's battery uses a power-density optimized chemistry. It weighs 260 lbs while only having 8.8 kWh of raw charge (~6 usable). A Prius EV with the same capacity as a Model 3 will have a 2,000 lbs battery.

That's why PHEV is a sound idea on paper but a bad idea in practice: you can only have a battery that is either power-dense or energy-dense, but PHEVs require something in between, so you end up with a compromise that leads to nowhere. Toyota has never developed an energy-density optimized Li-ion battery because Li-ion is a dead end.

Toyota's first BEVs in China will outsource the entire electric powertrain to some indigenous manufacturers. These cars are just like the RAV4EVs that were legally mandated by California. In fact Toyota is so unenthusiastic about the project it used bin parts from the XP90 Yaris and E120 Corolla (produced in the last decade). They are so embarrassed about them that these EVs won't even carry a Toyota badge.

internalaudit

Toyota already has everything in place if you look at the Prius Prime. Bump the battery size and do away with the engine, and we already get a BEV. I know because we have a RAV4H and it's been rock solid for the past two years.

No they can't. The Prime's battery uses a power-density optimized chemistry. It weighs 260 lbs while only having 8.8 kWh of raw charge (~6 usable). A Prius EV with the same capacity as a Model 3 will have a 2,000 lbs battery.

That's why PHEV is a sound idea on paper but a bad idea in practice: you can only have a battery that is either power-dense or energy-dense, but PHEVs require something in between, so you end up with a compromise that leads to nowhere. Toyota has never developed an energy-density optimized Li-ion battery because Li-ion is a dead end.

Toyota's first BEVs in China will outsource the entire electric powertrain to some indigenous manufacturers. These cars are just like the RAV4EVs that were legally mandated by California. In fact Toyota is so unenthusiastic about the project it used bin parts from the XP90 Yaris and E120 Corolla (produced in the last decade). They are so embarrassed about them that these EVs won't even carry a Toyota badge.

Thanks for the info.

I wasn't talking about using the same battery chemistry, rather, I was saying the Prius Prime already operates like a BEV so it's not like Toyota is so late in the game and can't play catch up.

So it's true that it's better to wait for solid state batteries, possibly with double the density at lower costs?

Thanks for the info.

I wasn't talking about using the same battery chemistry, rather, I was saying the Prius Prime already operates like a BEV so it's not like Toyota is so late in the game and can't play catch up.

So it's true that it's better to wait for solid state batteries, possibly with double the density at lower costs?

Thanks for the info.

I wasn't talking about using the same battery chemistry, rather, I was saying the Prius Prime already operates like a BEV so it's not like Toyota is so late in the game and can't play catch up.

So it's true that it's better to wait for solid state batteries, possibly with double the density at lower costs?

internalaudit

possibly with double the density at lower costs?

That's exactly what TMC is aiming for, the price target is somewhere around $100/kWh, the point at which an EV can be profitable.

internalaudit

possibly with double the density at lower costs?

That's exactly what TMC is aiming for, the price target is somewhere around $100/kWh, the point at which an EV can be profitable.

internalaudit

possibly with double the density at lower costs?

That's exactly what TMC is aiming for, the price target is somewhere around $100/kWh, the point at which an EV can be profitable.