The Lexus RZ Megathread (450e, 300e)

[CRSKTN]

If anything ICE will live on as motorsport and showpiece toys for the people who can afford carbon neutral future fuels.

 

[Flagship1]

I don't understand why people keep suggesting BEVs are toys but ICEVs aren't. They're all cars, propulsion system (if all of them easily lasts 16 years) doesn't really influence how soon to dispose of them. All I know is software bugs affect BEVs more than it does ICEVs and HEVs and I'm going to be very mindful of which manufacturers make the most reliable BMS/software.

As long as they meet my driving distance requirements and data points to battery longevity and a few key features like torque vectoring, why the hell would I want the latest and greatest BEV with the most driving distance, fastest charging speed, and 128 vs. 16 interior ambient light colors or even 50% improvement in torque vectoring performance?

To hell with OTA updates via 3G/4G/5G as long as future updates aren't related to safety issues.

That wasnt the point I was trying to make. Toyota, and some other legacy seems to positioning their offerings as a more reliable, more durable product in the ev space in effort to mask the shortcomings in their ev products. This kind of behavior exists in ice vehicles where the product is overloaded with industry first tech that supposed to mask material shortcomings in quality,

With evs, there is an inherent level of ground up reliabiltiy that exists moving to a product with fewer moving parts and nvh. Outside of the inital batch of leafs and teslas, have evs been piling up with dead batteries after 8 years and 150k miles on the side of the road?

All i am trying to say, is that legacy oems need to not only design in reliability, which is their bread and butter, but offer a solid product. If not, then I dont know why legacy over some new company like BYD. The other big elephant is cost, which companies like byd are already ahead of the competition, but thats another topic.

 

[internalaudit]

That wasnt the point I was trying to make. Toyota, and some other legacy seems to positioning their offerings as a more reliable, more durable product in the ev space in effort to mask the shortcomings in their ev products. This kind of behavior exists in ice vehicles where the product is overloaded with industry first tech that supposed to mask material shortcomings in quality,

With evs, there is an inherent level of ground up reliabiltiy that exists moving to a product with fewer moving parts and nvh. Outside of the inital batch of leafs and teslas, have evs been piling up with dead batteries after 8 years and 150k miles on the side of the road?

All i am trying to say, is that legacy oems need to not only design in reliability, which is their bread and butter, but offer a solid product. If not, then I dont know why legacy over some new company like BYD. The other big elephant is cost, which companies like byd are already ahead of the competition, but thats another topic.

I don't even know how reliable BYD vehicles are. Data points are scant outside China.

For those who prioritize build quality, I think Japanese still better in general, even compared to Koreans.

If everyone prioritized cost, we would mostly be driving real old and used reliable cars.

I am a bit brand agnostic and have a few manufacturers I don't mind buying BEVs from.

 

[internalaudit]

I think the different perception comes from the extent to which basic drivability and handling in BEVs is a function of the software. Even though the engine won't start without the computer, most ICEVs are still mechanical in terms of steering/throttle/brakes and full drive-by-wire is rare. (Most ICEVs for the last 10-15 years have at least some ability for a computer to drive the car for ADAS but the fundamentals are still mechanical). If ICEVs were similarly reliant on software we'd see a lot more problems from manufacturers with bad software and BEVs wouldn't be singled out as toys.

Good point but golf carts are electric too and I doubt they have as many issues as BEVs when being driven around. Even remotely controlled cars didn't have issues except when they ran outside of range or ran out of battery.

So manufacturers probably overcomplicated what was suppose to be simpler design

 

[Flagship1]

I don't even know how reliable BYD vehicles are. Data points are scant outside China.

For those who prioritize build quality, I think Japanese still better in general, even compared to Koreans.

If everyone prioritized cost, we would mostly be driving real old and used reliable cars.

I am a bit brand agnostic and have a few manufacturers I don't mind buying BEVs from.

Lets just hope they improve the ev side of things to make an appealing product. Right now, every RZ requires nearly 20k in incentives from the factory to move, before dealer contributions ranging upto 15% of msrp, so not much consumer confidence.

 

[internalaudit]

Lets just hope they improve the ev side of things to make an appealing product. Right now, every RZ requires nearly 20k in incentives from the factory to move, before dealer contributions ranging upto 15% of msrp, so not much consumer confidence.

It's definitely not competitive WRT to price vs. fast charging rate, driving range and power, all things to preserve snd prolong battery longevity.

The only currently available BEV I would consider buying used if I need to get a car in a jiffy.

From Toyota's battery roadmap, next gen BEVs coming in 2026.

Then solid state batteries from 2027.

Things will get better for BEVs once battery chemistry is more advanced.

By 2030, there's little reason for me to even consider any other type of vehicle.

 

[ssun30]

It's definitely not competitive WRT to price vs. fast charging rate, driving range and power, all things to preserve snd prolong battery longevity.

The only currently available BEV I would consider buying used if I need to get a car in a jiffy.

There is no "secrent ingredient" that makes the RZ450e magically more reliable than other BEVs. The Chinese market RZ has a smaller buffer size and faster average charging rate (although peak is lower than international models) and they only claim 80% range after 10 years like industry average. You can achieve the same level of battery longevity by locking SOC range and charging power in a competitor product. A TMY can achieve the same longevity by limiting max charge to 80% and only charge at Tier 1 or 2 chargers, and still has more range than a RZ.

For BEVs, range IS longevity because it means going through fewer cycles in the same distance.

 

[Levi]

If anything ICE will live on as motorsport and showpiece toys for the people who can afford carbon neutral future fuels.

Like a (insert watch brand) and an Apple Watch (or other smartwatch).

 

[internalaudit]

There is no "secrent ingredient" that makes the RZ450e magically more reliable than other BEVs. The Chinese market RZ has a smaller buffer size and faster average charging rate (although peak is lower than international models) and they only claim 80% range after 10 years like industry average. You can achieve the same level of battery longevity by locking SOC range and charging power in a competitor product. A TMY can achieve the same longevity by limiting max charge to 80% and only charge at Tier 1 or 2 chargers, and still has more range than a RZ.

For BEVs, range IS longevity because it means going through fewer cycles in the same distance.

Yeah, but who goes through battery care / best practices? At least with the RZ, there are built-in mechanisms to protect the battery.

We already know fewer cycles is not as critical as keeping them below a certain SoC threshold.

Of course, I would prefer to purchase a used/new BEV with a longer driving range, especially in winter, but that's probably not the only factor I will be considering.

 

[Flagship1]

Yeah, but who goes through battery care / best practices? At least with the RZ, there are built-in mechanisms to protect the battery.

We already know fewer cycles is not as critical as keeping them below a certain SoC threshold.

Of course, I would prefer to purchase a used/new BEV with a longer driving range, especially in winter, but that's probably not the only factor I will be considering.

In 8 years/150k miles does the RZ/bz/sol with all its protection mechanisms go far less in range then a model y with haphazard battery protection?

 

[internalaudit]

In 8 years/150k miles does the RZ/bz/sol with all its protection mechanisms go far less in range then a model y with haphazard battery protection?

I wouldn't know as driving distance is not my main priority when the time comes to shop for a new/used BEV. By then, driving distances should be more than sufficiently for my work commute needs.

Why don't you answer your own loaded question lol?

 

[ssun30]

I watched an interview with a Lucid executive and they stayed with 12V because a lot more accessories have to be stepped down from even 12V.

Interesting how different manufacturers approach the evolution.

There's just not enough economies of scale yet for the reduction in component/wiring cost to compensate for the extra DC-DC converter. But in the long term 48V DC is definitely the direction many industries are moving towards.

 

[internalaudit]

There's just not enough economies of scale yet for the reduction in component/wiring cost to compensate for the extra DC-DC converter. But in the long term 48V DC is definitely the direction many industries are moving towards.

As an aside, which three manufacturers do you think make the most reliable (not most efficient, not most engaging) BEVs, available in North America?

Do you think it will change with the coming of BYD, Geely, etc.? I think it's inevitable that Chinese manufacturers are going to be entering Canada, even with the 100% tariffs.

 

[Sulu]

There is no "secrent ingredient" that makes the RZ450e magically more reliable than other BEVs. The Chinese market RZ has a smaller buffer size and faster average charging rate (although peak is lower than international models) and they only claim 80% range after 10 years like industry average. You can achieve the same level of battery longevity by locking SOC range and charging power in a competitor product. A TMY can achieve the same longevity by limiting max charge to 80% and only charge at Tier 1 or 2 chargers, and still has more range than a RZ.

For BEVs, range IS longevity because it means going through fewer cycles in the same distance.

I am following the manufacturer's recommendation to limit charging to 85% on my tablet; now I find that I have to charge more often. I have wondered if the trade-off will be worth it -- limit SOC to 85% but then have to charge more often.

 

[Levi]

Reliability is not only about battery longevity. Just as an ICEV should start every morning, so should a BEV. The problem is BEVs happen to not start for no apparent reason (Stellantis)

 

[qtb007]

I am following the manufacturer's recommendation to limit charging to 85% on my tablet; now I find that I have to charge more often. I have wondered if the trade-off will be worth it -- limit SOC to 85% but then have to charge more often.

Do you not charge every night?

 

[Sulu]

Do you not charge every night?

No. I don't have my tablet on all the time (I don't use it constantly when I am at home) so I only find that I need to charge every 3 days or so.

 

[Flagship1]

I am following the manufacturer's recommendation to limit charging to 85% on my tablet; now I find that I have to charge more often. I have wondered if the trade-off will be worth it -- limit SOC to 85% but then have to charge more often.

On my comp, i use to set the power manager to only charge at 50% soc, and stops at 80% soc.
When i have a light day, never really an issue, however otherwise im basically plugged in all the time with that charging profile. Nowadays i turned off the power profile, and just charge to 100. Makes life way simpler and cordless. While i see the battery degradation increase, the ease of usability has increased, and most likely I will be upgrading before i reach eol on the battery pack.

This is irrelevant to a complex car pack.

 

[internalaudit]

Reliability is not only about battery longevity. Just as an ICEV should start every morning, so should a BEV. The problem is BEVs happen to not start for no apparent reason (Stellantis)

I think with ICEV, if it isn't drivable, outside of what's also found in BEVs, it's the ICE or the transmission.

With BEVs, it could be software, battery pack, wiring, connectors or motor or a combination of those.

I have not really witnessed an indy mechanic using computers to troubleshoot outside of error codes, which none of my ICEVs or HEV have thrown out.

Maybe it's different with modern day ICEVs like my wife's X3 M40i but I am willing to bet getting a rebuilt or perfectly fine scrapped B58TU engine will be much cheaper than getting a replacement battery pack, in excellent condition and that will easily last beyond four years, trouble -free.