The Lexus LM Minivan Megathread

[flexus]

You mean like Mercedes does in Europe selling their cars cheap to be used as taxis?

A3->Golf->Octavia->Toledo
A4->Passat->Superb->Exeo
Q2->Troc->Kamiq
Macan->Q5->Tiguan->Kodiaq->Tarraco
List goes on and on
My neighbours' A5 and A6 didn't have leather seats lol 50k€ car

 

[ydooby]

You mean like Mercedes does in Europe selling their cars cheap to be used as taxis?

I mean that the MC platform that the Alphard is based on is not only ancient but decidedly "cheap", unworthy of a premium brand, with low-grade steel used everywhere and low rigidity as a result. The new TNGA platform is much more premium-grade and worthy of use in a premium vehicle, but Toyota is able to keep its costs in line with the old platforms only because of its modular design enabling much better economy of scale. Since the current Alphard is already 4 years into the product cycle, Lexus should instead develop a new TNGA-based MPV which the next-generation Alphard can adopt in 2 years. The Mercedes taxis, as well as many models in the VAG family, are still premium vehicles in my book because of the premium-grade platforms they're based on, despite being equipped with few amenities.

 

[Trexus]

A3->Golf->Octavia->Toledo
A4->Passat->Superb->Exeo
Q2->Troc->Kamiq
Macan->Q5->Tiguan->Kodiaq->Tarraco
List goes on and on
My neighbours' A5 and A6 didn't have leather seats lol 50k€ car

Q7->Atlas
Q8->Urus->Cayenne coupe

 

[zeusus]

I mean that the MC platform that the Alphard is based on is not only ancient but decidedly "cheap", unworthy of a premium brand, with low-grade steel used everywhere and low rigidity as a result. The new TNGA platform is much more premium-grade and worthy of use in a premium vehicle, but Toyota is able to keep its costs in line with the old platforms only because of its modular design enabling much better economy of scale. Since the current Alphard is already 4 years into the product cycle, Lexus should instead develop a new TNGA-based MPV which the next-generation Alphard can adopt in 2 years. The Mercedes taxis, as well as many models in the VAG family, are still premium vehicles in my book because of the premium-grade platforms they're based on, despite being equipped with few amenities.

Great points, a superior platform is a superior platform. But at the same time...

How many actual Alphard buyers in Asia care about the difference between MC and TNGA platforms? Why is the Alphard so highly regarded by it's actual and potential buyers while at the same time, mild sentiments on extremely niche web forums are calling it cheap?

Mercedes has the sprinter, which can either be an inventory mover or a celebrity/executive van. Said celebrities and/or executives also don't care that the same van is used as a mobile warehouse, as long as what they're in, is comfortable.

This is a counter point to your opinion that this new LM (which hasn't even been unveiled yet), is "terribly disappointing" and doesn't hold the Lexus brand to a "higher standard"

 

[Ian Schmidt]

Is this really a priority for Lexus?
I can imagine something more urgent (LF-1),
or will we have to wait another 4 years like with the UX?

It's free money, and they don't appear to be putting much effort into the rebadge. So I don't think this is blocking LF-1, and the money it makes might help steer bean counter eyes away from the LC-F and Dynamic Force TTV8.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

How many actual Alphard buyers in Asia care about the difference between MC and TNGA platforms? Why is the Alphard so highly regarded by it's actual and potential buyers while at the same time, mild sentiments on extremely niche web forums are calling it cheap?

I'm gonna pull out one of my least-favorite social media-isms here because it fits: The *clap* LM *clap* isn't *clap* for *clap* us *clap* it's *clap* for *clap* Asia.

 

[Gecko]

I mean that the MC platform that the Alphard is based on is not only ancient but decidedly "cheap", unworthy of a premium brand, with low-grade steel used everywhere and low rigidity as a result. The new TNGA platform is much more premium-grade and worthy of use in a premium vehicle, but Toyota is able to keep its costs in line with the old platforms only because of its modular design enabling much better economy of scale. Since the current Alphard is already 4 years into the product cycle, Lexus should instead develop a new TNGA-based MPV which the next-generation Alphard can adopt in 2 years. The Mercedes taxis, as well as many models in the VAG family, are still premium vehicles in my book because of the premium-grade platforms they're based on, despite being equipped with few amenities.

This is probably my biggest problem with the LM - it is a GM-esque desperate money grab: No type of engineering innovation, no flagship product development and not even keeping pace with Toyota's new philosophy, despite being a Lexus flagship product.

If any other brand launched a "flagship" product based on a platform that dates back two decades, we'd all be pointing fingers and laughing. Maybe they really don't need to invest much because it's a limited market product. Maybe they think they can just lightly rebadge the Alphard and win with that. But also, I don't really want to think of Lexus as a company that is rebadging old Toyota products to add to their flagship line. Since the Alphard is already 4 years old, it should be ready for a switch to TNGA in the next 1-2 years... while LM spends the next 6 on the MC platform? Sad. Another missed Lexus opportunity to lead.

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

Since the Alphard is already 4 years old, it should be ready for a switch to TNGA in the next 1-2 years... while LM spends the next 6 on the MC platform? Sad. Another missed Lexus opportunity to lead.

I wouldn't be that pessimistic. The 1st-gen LM might only be built in its about-to-debut form for 2 or 3 years and then fall into line with Alphard and Vellfire's 4th-generation which should debut around 2021-2022. Think back to Lexus' origins here in the U.S. The original ES was a 2-year-only barely-disguised-Camry stopgap until a better-differentiated, more luxurious and "properly Lexus" Toyota Windom-derived ES appeared.

 

[amoschen7]

I’m so proud that this really happened, lol

 

[meth.ix]

I don't think this can be classified as a minivan. LM =Luxury Multi-Purpose Vehicle. Minivans are typically passenger vehicles while this van would probably have 4-5 seats with lots of space since it is a flagship.

 

[ssun30]

Since the Alphard is already 4 years old, it should be ready for a switch to TNGA in the next 1-2 years... while LM spends the next 6 on the MC platform? Sad. Another missed Lexus opportunity to lead.

More like they waited too long on the LM so now it's an awkward time to launch it. They should have green-lit the vehicle right after the Alphard proved to be a tremendous success in China, but hindsight is 20/20. Three years ago nobody really knew the Alphard would go viral and outsell all luxury sedans sans the S-Class in 2019, its success was entirely a coincidence.

2018 would be a perfect moment together with the Alphard facelift so it is a year too late. I'm not that concerned since the LM is badge-engineered anyway so I wouldn't be surprised if the 1st-gen has a very short life cycle. There is no incentive for them to keep producing the LM on an old platform when the entire Alphard line switches to TNGA. The cost to maintain the old line may not be worth it.

 

[Gecko]

Considering Lexus' recent approach to product lifecycles, I have no real faith in a short window for the 1st gen LM... but lets hope this thing shapes up to be a success and something worthy of wearing the Lexus "L_" flagship designation.

 

[Joe]

Considering Lexus' recent approach to product lifecycles, I have no real faith in a short window for the 1st gen LM... but lets hope this thing shapes up to be a success and something worthy of wearing the Lexus "L_" flagship designation.

Or at least that it generates the necessary profit to push Lexus in 'fast forward' in developing a better model range to compete better in Europe against the other luxury brands (i.e. multiple hp versions of HEV, add PHEV and BEV in the range, add more F-models for the sake of brand image etc...)

 

[Motor]

I assume there's going to be an F Sport trim? Anyway, the 2018 TRD Alphard/Vellfire looks sharp.

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

I assume there's going to be an F Sport trim? Anyway, the 2018 TRD Alphard/Vellfire looks sharp.

That's an excellent question, and a possibility that hadn't even crossed my mind. I suppose it depends mostly on the take rate of F Sport packages in China (LM's primary market). I have no idea what that would be. Perhaps forum members more knowledgeable about the Chinese market (such as @ssun30 and @shizhi ) have thoughts to share about this.

 

[spwolf]

More like they waited too long on the LM so now it's an awkward time to launch it. They should have green-lit the vehicle right after the Alphard proved to be a tremendous success in China, but hindsight is 20/20. Three years ago nobody really knew the Alphard would go viral and outsell all luxury sedans sans the S-Class in 2019, its success was entirely a coincidence.

2018 would be a perfect moment together with the Alphard facelift so it is a year too late. I'm not that concerned since the LM is badge-engineered anyway so I wouldn't be surprised if the 1st-gen has a very short life cycle. There is no incentive for them to keep producing the LM on an old platform when the entire Alphard line switches to TNGA. The cost to maintain the old line may not be worth it.

Well, it wasn't really a coincidence - they have been purposely building those top end Alphard trims with crazy interiors for 10+ years now. They always did cost a lot of money, even in Japan, and obviously them expanding it more and more means people are buying it.

btw, how many units did Alphard sell in China?

 

[mikeavelli]

Shields up!!! lol

 

[Rob Grieveson]

All a bit confusing but I do believe there is a market for a vehicle of this type, perhaps not everywhere but I see Asia and Africa as very possible destinations for success.
I am disappointed in that it really is just a Alphard in a dress suit and therefore may lack some authenticity of being a unique luxury Lexus.
Toyota I believe rather underrates their strength of brand many people worldwide hold Toyota in very high esteem and quite rightly so and therefore do they need a Lexus model to cover the whole range?
I would like more uniqueness like the LS is so definitely a Lexus. Something to ponder on, I guess Toyota must know what they need for maximum penetration of their market.

 

[Trexus]

Shields up!!! lol

It's a lot worse on CL. I've showed my support for the LM on CL but there's only like two of us that like the LM and obviously the whole CL community dislikes the LM...

 

[James]

It’s weird I feel like the last few cars Lexus has come out with I’ve been super excited about and honestly I really don’t care about this like at all. Maybe it’s just cause I don’t care about these segment of cars or maybe just desperate to see new IS, GS (yes I know it’s soon to be dead), LCF, LSF, LQ or whatever the new SUV that I can’t remember is at the moment. Idk just weird to not be excited about something Lexus. I mean I loved the Yacht! Anyone else feel the same way? Not trying to troll anyone that is excited just kinda eh about it.