The 2019 ES Sucks

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Ok, let me give my short list and see if anyone is feeling the same:

1. Mark Levinson is no longer impressive. All the sound now comes from the dash. The sub is all the way in the back, isn't easy to control, and is mismatched to the sound stage. Midrange is too prominent. Quality is a step backward. Total disappointment.

2. The speaker phone is back to using one little tweeter in the corner of the dash and sounds so shrill that it physically hurts my ears. It is completely unusable. This is unacceptable in a car of this price range.

3. Automated trunk latch was removed and replaced with a handle (you know... like on a 1993 Toyota Corolla). It was nice and, once again, now stepped back. This was an important convenience that I used all the time. I used to press the button and then grab items quickly--letting the trunk close while I walked away--saving me time. Now, I have to grab things, take them out, set them down, and then close the trunk myself. Then gather up things again (sometimes many bags), and *then* walk away. Not the end of the world, but way worse than it was. Why. Go. Backward?!

4. The attempt to "Recaro" the seats is a fail. I have a 35in waist and am average build. However, the narrow seat rails at the base make it so that I am literally sitting on the edges of the seat, and the seat ridges are pressing into my legs and behind. Not comfortable. Not acceptable. A totally puzzling design choice. Another step backward.

5. I have the F Sport and it performs worse than any Lexus I've owned. The gas pedal is essentially like a controller on a game console: You press the pedal, the computer sees what you did and then tells the engine what to do. This process is taking so ridiculously long that, even in FSport mode, if I stamp on the gas pedal, I am waiting literally for more than one second (!) for the car to react at all--then it juts like a roller coaster. Even though the RPM gauge flies up, the car is just sitting there. I often find myself tentatively pressing the gas pedal, then waiting, then pressing it some more. But then the car catches up and over reacts. Then I have to ease off. Etc. It's like trying to drive a car with ropes tied to the steering wheel. Really bad. Totally sucks. By the way, performance, primarily, is meant to give you the means to avoid emergency situations. Frankly, this hesitation in the engine is dangerous. (And I don't buy that this is because of the initial learning mode of the engine).

6. The gearing for gears 1 and 2 (and reverse) are clunky and jolting. Just not smooth. When stopping and shifting into reverse, you can feel the gears clanking like a tractor. This is an embarrassment for the flagship performance model!

7. You now have to go about 5 clicks into the incredibly annoying interface to switch the AC back out of Dual Mode after a passenger adjusts the temperature independently. Really?

These items are such shortfalls, given the expectations and price of this car, I find that I am just frustrated whenever I drive. These are such important, core features that it's a showstopper. All you do in a car is sit in it, listen to the stereo, and use the performance of the car to drive it. If all of these suck, what are you left with?

This car does have some really cool features and positive aspects... but I'm so annoyed with this, I don't even care.

I think this is it for me...
 
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Totally agreed on the Mark Levison stereo. It sucks !!! My 1 month old Es350 had the same problems as you described ! Above all The memory seat DOES NOT remember the settings . Never goes back to my desired settings no matter P1,2 or 3. Sent it back to dealer, service said mechanic re-initialized setting BUT still does not work. Very frusted each time thave to worry seat setting. Thumbs Down on thinew model which I had high hopes on !!
 

Levi

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Is this some anti-Lexus ES guerilla because of the death of IS and GS? I doubt it will change anything, only damage the reputation of LE and turn it into CL.
 

Ian Schmidt

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I'm just confused as to why you'd buy a car that you find painful to sit in and hate basically everything about. Surely all of this came up on the test drive?

(ETA: Oh, I see, this is actually from over a year ago and someone necro-threaded it).
 
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I did that Ian because of the TSB on the stereo issue just this week.

I have a '19 F Sport and the seats are very comfortable @ 6'2" and 200 lbs. Additionally, there was some sort of adjustment for owners of the luxury model that placed additional padding around the seat front where people complained about a bar cutting into their thighs.
 

Ian Schmidt

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There's presumably a separate TSB for ML, because Pioneer doesn't make the ML parts so those would be different.
 

Alshamsi

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Well, I can agree with you with most of the points, mainly the performance.
I am also having the issue with the first, seconds and third gears, they are jerky and sometimes when you lay your foot off the gas pedal it just jerks for whatever reason ? it's not like that i was hard on the throttle, no not even 10% of the pedals is pressed and it just jerks and low speeds.
Regarding the delay, i expected the F Sport to be react faster too, it is just way too soft and slow, that goes also for shifting, it's just too slow..
i had a 14" Golf GTI before, and it had a more comfortable Dual Clutch Gearbox.. not to mention the lightening quick response.
I know that the ES is a luxury car, but even in Sport+ Mode it's just ridiculously slow to react..
And seriously why does it not have an "M" mode in the shifter ? i mean the S mode just ignores whatever gear you are in and just shifts on it self, why the hell there are pedal shifters in the car if i cant manually control the shifts?

The phone experience in the car is pure trash, So much delay and trash sound quality.

The AC is just... i mean they couldn't fit a CLIMATE button anywhere on the dash ?

Not saying i don't like that car, but there are major things that are really messing with the experience, i really love the car, the interior quality, the looks and all, but then i immediately get reminded of those things when i start driving.

Another thing, Why in the hell Lexus do not have adjustable Speed Limiters along with the cruise control ? I mean to whoever used this feature in a previous car cannot ever ever get used to driving without it..

Lexus just gotta ditch their Gearboxes for ZF's ...
 

Ian Schmidt

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I would say again that if you don't actually enjoy driving the car, you shouldn't own/lease it. The looks/interior don't matter; driving is believing as the Mazda ads say. That's the bottom line. If a double-clutch DSG gearbox is your breaking point, you need to buy a VAG product.
 

Sulu

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Well, I can agree with you with most of the points, mainly the performance.
I am also having the issue with the first, seconds and third gears, they are jerky and sometimes when you lay your foot off the gas pedal it just jerks for whatever reason ? it's not like that i was hard on the throttle, no not even 10% of the pedals is pressed and it just jerks and low speeds.
Regarding the delay, i expected the F Sport to be react faster too, it is just way too soft and slow, that goes also for shifting, it's just too slow..
i had a 14" Golf GTI before, and it had a more comfortable Dual Clutch Gearbox.. not to mention the lightening quick response.
I know that the ES is a luxury car, but even in Sport+ Mode it's just ridiculously slow to react..
And seriously why does it not have an "M" mode in the shifter ? i mean the S mode just ignores whatever gear you are in and just shifts on it self, why the hell there are pedal shifters in the car if i cant manually control the shifts?

The phone experience in the car is pure trash, So much delay and trash sound quality.

The AC is just... i mean they couldn't fit a CLIMATE button anywhere on the dash ?

Not saying i don't like that car, but there are major things that are really messing with the experience, i really love the car, the interior quality, the looks and all, but then i immediately get reminded of those things when i start driving.

Another thing, Why in the hell Lexus do not have adjustable Speed Limiters along with the cruise control ? I mean to whoever used this feature in a previous car cannot ever ever get used to driving without it..

Lexus just gotta ditch their Gearboxes for ZF's ...
The reason that the transmission in your ES 350 and the dual clutch transmission in the Golf GTI feel different is because they are 2 completely different designs in 2 completely different cars.

The ES, even though it sports the F-Sport trim, is at heart, a smooth-riding luxury car. The Golf GTI is a "hot-hatch", a harder-driving sporty car. Trying to compare the large, soft ES with the small, harder GTI is like expecting a huge pickup truck to have the quiet and smooth ride of a luxury car.

The transmissions are also different. The ES uses the traditional "slushbox" automatic transmission design, designed and known for its smooth, effortless shifts (but terrible fuel economy). The roughness you feel is probably due to the lock-up torque converter, an addition to modern automatic transmissions to improve fuel efficiency.

The dual-clutch transmission is, in fact, an automated manual transmission with 2 automated rather than 1 manual clutch. As in any and all manual transmissions, when the clutch is disengaged, a gear shift is allowed, shifting up (or down) to the next gear before the clutch is again engaged; a good driver can shift quite quickly and an automated manual transmission can shift even faster.

In an automated dual-clutch transmission, when the clutch is disengaged, 2 shifts happen -- the selected gear is engaged on one shaft (controlled by one clutch) and the next higher gear is selected on the second shaft (controlled by the other clutch) in wait.

For example, when shifting up from 1st gear, the clutch for the 1st gear is disengaged and the clutch for the 2nd gear is immediately engaged because 2nd gear is already waiting, preselected; the disengaged shaft for the 1st gear then quickly selects 3rd gear, allowing it to wait for the next upshift. That is why dual-clutch transmissions can shift so quickly, because the shift has already happened -- the next gear is already selected -- waiting to be immediately engaged with no up-shift necessary when the clutch is disengaged.

But dual-clutch transmissions can also run quite rough. Ford's PowerShift dual-clutch automatic transmission caused a lot of problems for owners of its Fiesta and Focus cars, running very rough. Ford's PowerShift transmissions used dry clutches while VW's dual-clutch transmissions used wet clutches.

Toyota builds its own transmissions that are designed by Aisin, a supplier that is a member of the Toyota family of companies; Toyota does not like to mate its own engines with transmissions from other companies. By working closely with a member of its family, Toyota is better able to control the design of new transmissions, by being able to tell the supplier exactly what it needs in its transmissions; and Toyota is better able to maintain the high quality of its products.
 

Alshamsi

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I would say again that if you don't actually enjoy driving the car, you shouldn't own/lease it. The looks/interior don't matter; driving is believing as the Mazda ads say. That's the bottom line. If a double-clutch DSG gearbox is your breaking point, you need to buy a VAG product.
The car handles so well, it is comfortable to some degree and i enjoy all that, i am just annoyed that lexus could've done a whole lot better with this ES because it has a lot of potential.
The reason i mentioned the DSG is because i know it's not that comfortable, i owned a '10 ES before and my broher owned the '12 GS F-Sport and both are far better transmissions, they just failed with the '19 ES.
I don't know how the gearbox for the F-Sport was programmed, but it isn't sport neither comfortable.
 

Alshamsi

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The reason that the transmission in your ES 350 and the dual clutch transmission in the Golf GTI feel different is because they are 2 completely different designs in 2 completely different cars.

The ES, even though it sports the F-Sport trim, is at heart, a smooth-riding luxury car. The Golf GTI is a "hot-hatch", a harder-driving sporty car. Trying to compare the large, soft ES with the small, harder GTI is like expecting a huge pickup truck to have the quiet and smooth ride of a luxury car.

The transmissions are also different. The ES uses the traditional "slushbox" automatic transmission design, designed and known for its smooth, effortless shifts (but terrible fuel economy). The roughness you feel is probably due to the lock-up torque converter, an addition to modern automatic transmissions to improve fuel efficiency.

The dual-clutch transmission is, in fact, an automated manual transmission with 2 automated rather than 1 manual clutch. As in any and all manual transmissions, when the clutch is disengaged, a gear shift is allowed, shifting up (or down) to the next gear before the clutch is again engaged; a good driver can shift quite quickly and an automated manual transmission can shift even faster.

In an automated dual-clutch transmission, when the clutch is disengaged, 2 shifts happen -- the selected gear is engaged on one shaft (controlled by one clutch) and the next higher gear is selected on the second shaft (controlled by the other clutch) in wait.

For example, when shifting up from 1st gear, the clutch for the 1st gear is disengaged and the clutch for the 2nd gear is immediately engaged because 2nd gear is already waiting, preselected; the disengaged shaft for the 1st gear then quickly selects 3rd gear, allowing it to wait for the next upshift. That is why dual-clutch transmissions can shift so quickly, because the shift has already happened -- the next gear is already selected -- waiting to be immediately engaged with no up-shift necessary when the clutch is disengaged.

But dual-clutch transmissions can also run quite rough. Ford's PowerShift dual-clutch automatic transmission caused a lot of problems for owners of its Fiesta and Focus cars, running very rough. Ford's PowerShift transmissions used dry clutches while VW's dual-clutch transmissions used wet clutches.

Toyota builds its own transmissions that are designed by Aisin, a supplier that is a member of the Toyota family of companies; Toyota does not like to mate its own engines with transmissions from other companies. By working closely with a member of its family, Toyota is better able to control the design of new transmissions, by being able to tell the supplier exactly what it needs in its transmissions; and Toyota is better able to maintain the high quality of its products.
My friend my comparison to the DSG is just meant to show how jerky the new Transmission is, i had a lexus before and driven so many hours with 3 other lexuses and none had the problems that this one has. They were better with seamless shifts, so comfortable.
 

mikeavelli

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We also have a 2019 ES F-Sport and it is superbly average if that makes sense. Does everything okay, nothing great outside of outstanding interior space. We haven't had any issues naturally. It uses regular gas. Looks good inside and out.

As for your trunk issue, we have the same thing. The power trunk is like a $300 option and it wasn't checked on the box. Our loaded 52k ES F-Sport for whatever reason doesn't' have two options, power trunk and power rear sunshade. The rear sunshade isn't that missed but losing the power trunk is insane. I also didn't realize how much this should be standard until going grocery shopping etc and it is a PITA to especially close the trunk.

In addition our loaded ES F-Sport is missing out on a ton of features our loaded GS F-Sport or even RX F-Sport had. It feels like a step back for us and a compromise. It would be gone if it wasn't for my wife.

When my wife had the GS F-Sport I would drive it all over. Loved that car. Had a soul, it made you want to drive. The ES F-Sport has the looks but drives like an ES which is slow in all its responses. It is FWD and doesn't want to be pushed even with F-Sport touches. Even my wife prefers the way the GS drove.

Again it is not a bad car at all. It does everything good. I realize now we both want an exceptional experience and that is to be expected. She's eyeing a Porsche Panamera next go round....
 

Alshamsi

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We also have a 2019 ES F-Sport and it is superbly average if that makes sense. Does everything okay, nothing great outside of outstanding interior space. We haven't had any issues naturally. It uses regular gas. Looks good inside and out.

As for your trunk issue, we have the same thing. The power trunk is like a $300 option and it wasn't checked on the box. Our loaded 52k ES F-Sport for whatever reason doesn't' have two options, power trunk and power rear sunshade. The rear sunshade isn't that missed but losing the power trunk is insane. I also didn't realize how much this should be standard until going grocery shopping etc and it is a PITA to especially close the trunk.

In addition our loaded ES F-Sport is missing out on a ton of features our loaded GS F-Sport or even RX F-Sport had. It feels like a step back for us and a compromise. It would be gone if it wasn't for my wife.

When my wife had the GS F-Sport I would drive it all over. Loved that car. Had a soul, it made you want to drive. The ES F-Sport has the looks but drives like an ES which is slow in all its responses. It is FWD and doesn't want to be pushed even with F-Sport touches. Even my wife prefers the way the GS drove.

Again it is not a bad car at all. It does everything good. I realize now we both want an exceptional experience and that is to be expected. She's eyeing a Porsche Panamera next go round....
The handling of the car is actually very good, i mean the platform is really good on this vehicle, but they really missed out on the F-Sport.
Looking at the F-sport GS, it has different engine tune, it has faster gear response, and most importantly, BIGGER BRAKES..

The brakes on the ES f-sport are identical to the non f-sport, the discs are really small, and the rear ones aren't vented, they faded out on me and got so hot and started making noise, i really lost confidence in the car when driving at high speeds..

The car overall needed performance adjustments, it has potential, and that always makes me sad, i really love the car with all it's flaws, but i want more from it!

The Trunk option is really useful, the kick sensor is a really nice thing to have!

Regarding the shades, why don they include side shades for the F sport as well.. ? it could be useful, i mean it won't add weight or anything.

To sum it:

-The car needs real F-sport treatment:
1- better engine and transmission tune
2- larger tires and brakes
3- Better suspension

-AC needs a standalone button...

-transmission jerks a lot and need to be fixed

-It needs to be faster "GS fast" it has the same engine, why is the GS so much faster ??

-M mode to be added at least for the F-sport.. the S-mode is basically a joke and shifts as it likes, ignoring whichever gear you set.

-Rear passengers windows are not double glazed for some reason, i hear wind noise coming from the back..
 

mikeavelli

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The handling of the car is actually very good, i mean the platform is really good on this vehicle, but they really missed out on the F-Sport.
Looking at the F-sport GS, it has different engine tune, it has faster gear response, and most importantly, BIGGER BRAKES..

The brakes on the ES f-sport are identical to the non f-sport, the discs are really small, and the rear ones aren't vented, they faded out on me and got so hot and started making noise, i really lost confidence in the car when driving at high speeds..

The car overall needed performance adjustments, it has potential, and that always makes me sad, i really love the car with all it's flaws, but i want more from it!

The Trunk option is really useful, the kick sensor is a really nice thing to have!

Regarding the shades, why don they include side shades for the F sport as well.. ? it could be useful, i mean it won't add weight or anything.

To sum it:

-The car needs real F-sport treatment:
1- better engine and transmission tune
2- larger tires and brakes
3- Better suspension

-AC needs a standalone button...

-transmission jerks a lot and need to be fixed

-It needs to be faster "GS fast" it has the same engine, why is the GS so much faster ??

-M mode to be added at least for the F-sport.. the S-mode is basically a joke and shifts as it likes, ignoring whichever gear you set.

-Rear passengers windows are not double glazed for some reason, i hear wind noise coming from the back..

We owned a GS F-Sport so I know the cars well.
 
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Your complaint regarding all sound coming from the dash is how a good car stereo is supposed to sound.
 
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Ok, let me give my short list and see if anyone is feeling the same:

1. Mark Levinson is no longer impressive. All the sound now comes from the dash. The sub is all the way in the back, isn't easy to control, and is mismatched to the sound stage. Midrange is too prominent. Quality is a step backward. Total disappointment.

2. The speaker phone is back to using one little tweeter in the corner of the dash and sounds so shrill that it physically hurts my ears. It is completely unusable. This is unacceptable in a car of this price range.

3. Automated trunk latch was removed and replaced with a handle (you know... like on a 1993 Toyota Corolla). It was nice and, once again, now stepped back. This was an important convenience that I used all the time. I used to press the button and then grab items quickly--letting the trunk close while I walked away--saving me time. Now, I have to grab things, take them out, set them down, and then close the trunk myself. Then gather up things again (sometimes many bags), and *then* walk away. Not the end of the world, but way worse than it was. Why. Go. Backward?!

4. The attempt to "Recaro" the seats is a fail. I have a 35in waist and am average build. However, the narrow seat rails at the base make it so that I am literally sitting on the edges of the seat, and the seat ridges are pressing into my legs and behind. Not comfortable. Not acceptable. A totally puzzling design choice. Another step backward.

5. I have the F Sport and it performs worse than any Lexus I've owned. The gas pedal is essentially like a controller on a game console: You press the pedal, the computer sees what you did and then tells the engine what to do. This process is taking so ridiculously long that, even in FSport mode, if I stamp on the gas pedal, I am waiting literally for more than one second (!) for the car to react at all--then it juts like a roller coaster. Even though the RPM gauge flies up, the car is just sitting there. I often find myself tentatively pressing the gas pedal, then waiting, then pressing it some more. But then the car catches up and over reacts. Then I have to ease off. Etc. It's like trying to drive a car with ropes tied to the steering wheel. Really bad. Totally sucks. By the way, performance, primarily, is meant to give you the means to avoid emergency situations. Frankly, this hesitation in the engine is dangerous. (And I don't buy that this is because of the initial learning mode of the engine).

6. The gearing for gears 1 and 2 (and reverse) are clunky and jolting. Just not smooth. When stopping and shifting into reverse, you can feel the gears clanking like a tractor. This is an embarrassment for the flagship performance model!

7. You now have to go about 5 clicks into the incredibly annoying interface to switch the AC back out of Dual Mode after a passenger adjusts the temperature independently. Really?

These items are such shortfalls, given the expectations and price of this car, I find that I am just frustrated whenever I drive. These are such important, core features that it's a showstopper. All you do in a car is sit in it, listen to the stereo, and use the performance of the car to drive it. If all of these suck, what are you left with?

This car does have some really cool features and positive aspects... but I'm so annoyed with this, I don't even care.

I think this is it for me...
My experience with the ES is when I leave my Gs F sport in for service and honestly it’s apples to oranges when you compare them.The generic FWD is not for me. But besides that it’s appointed well , looks ok. But i Just couldn’t wait to my car back. They are killing my car and yet this is one their best sellers. Interesting