Subaru becomes a member of Toyota group

flexus

Admirer
Messages
532
Reaction score
893
Toyota increased its share in Subaru (former Fuji Heavy Industries) to 20%.

 

Carmaker1

Admirer
Messages
720
Reaction score
2,044
Wow shocking news! I only can hope that the good side of Toyoda-san is the most involved but knowing the corporate world that's a crapshoot.

I hope it doesn't mean the death of the performance side of Subaru per the wonderful Toyota executive board.😒
 

Will1991

Follower
Messages
484
Reaction score
858
Wow shocking news! I only can hope that the good side of Toyoda-san is the most involved but knowing the corporate world that's a crapshoot.

I hope it doesn't mean the death of the performance side of Subaru per the wonderful Toyota executive board.😒
They did managed to come out with a Toyobaru GT86 and showing how D4-S works to Subaru.

And if everything goes according to rumors, a GR86 is also coming out. To complete, I do think as you're thinking, let's hope we will have a WRX STI for many years :)
 

spwolf

Expert
Messages
2,341
Reaction score
2,321
hopefully they will not produce 100 different powertrains, AWD systems, autonomous systems, but will integrate it into something that benefits all companies.
 

ssun30

Expert
Messages
1,407
Reaction score
2,762
According to rumors in Japan and China, Subaru is going to consolidate its seven-engine lineup (EJ20/EJ25/FA20/FA24/FB16/FB20/FB25) into just three (FB15/FA18/FA24) to deal with new emission standards around the world. All three engines will be turbocharged with scalable power levels, and the gaps in between will be bridged by hybridization (like Toyota's strategy).

FB15: <150PS, replaces FB16/FB20.
FA18: 170-260PS, replaces FA20/FB25.
FA24: >260PS, replaces EJ20/EJ25.

I think the new GR86/BRZ will actually use the smaller FA18 to reduce weight. The FA24 is a bit of overkill for a sports car below $30k.

I hope it doesn't mean the death of the performance side of Subaru per the wonderful Toyota executive board.😒
The FA18 will also replace the turbocharged FA20 (used on WRX) since Subaru somehow thinks the current generation WRX/Levorg are 'overspecced'. The Japanese media suspect this is related to high accident rate and thus high insurance premium, and Subaru wants to discourage dangerous driving by reducing power.
I wonder if Subaru even considers its 'performance legacy' to be positive to the company. They are marketing themselves as a 'safety brand' with symmetrical AWD, and unfortunately some of their buyers tend to have a reputation for reckless driving. They axed the Forester XT and never bothered with a Crosstrek STI.
I'm actually betting Subaru itself wants to kill performance models more than Toyota. Akio Toyoda would love to spread costs with Subaru to build his GR brand.
 

spwolf

Expert
Messages
2,341
Reaction score
2,321
This move also cuts the #1 wars short, as now TMC will produce close to 12m vehicles/year.
 

Will1991

Follower
Messages
484
Reaction score
858
This move also cuts the #1 wars short, as now TMC will produce close to 12m vehicles/year.
Maybe not, despite Subaru being now a Toyota affiliate, they still are outside Toyota Group... Also, we can’t see anything on Toyota Global Newsroom about this move...

This being said, Subaru might keep counting as independent brand for production/sales numbers.
 

spwolf

Expert
Messages
2,341
Reaction score
2,321
Maybe not, despite Subaru being now a Toyota affiliate, they still are outside Toyota Group... Also, we can’t see anything on Toyota Global Newsroom about this move...

This being said, Subaru might keep counting as independent brand for production/sales numbers.
Article literally says they are joining Toyota group and that their results will be included in Toyota results.
 

Sulu

Fan
Messages
86
Reaction score
132
Article literally says they are joining Toyota group and that their results will be included in Toyota results.
I apologise if I am making a petty argument, but this is not how I interpret it. The English version of the article says that "Subaru Effectively Joins Toyota Group" but not *officially* joins the Toyota Group. The article is written from Subaru's perspective, not Toyota's; there is no official word from Toyota that Subaru has joined the Group, so although now closer to Toyota, Subaru is still legally an outsider.

Subaru Effectively Joins Toyota Group

Tokyo, Feb. 6 (Jiji Press)--Japanese automaker Subaru Corp. <7270> said Thursday Toyota Motor Corp. <7203> has raised its stake in Subaru to 20.0 pct from 16.8 pct, effectively making it a Toyota group company.
Within the group, Subaru aims to accelerate research and development activities for next-generation technologies, such as autonomous driving and automobile electrification, fields in which it lags behind its rivals.
 

spwolf

Expert
Messages
2,341
Reaction score
2,321
I apologise if I am making a petty argument, but this is not how I interpret it. The English version of the article says that "Subaru Effectively Joins Toyota Group" but not *officially* joins the Toyota Group. The article is written from Subaru's perspective, not Toyota's; there is no official word from Toyota that Subaru has joined the Group, so although now closer to Toyota, Subaru is still legally an outsider.
i dont really understand what is the problem here:

Subaru's bottom line will be reflected in Toyota's consolidated earnings.


Subaru is going to be considered part of Toyota group and its results will be included into Toyota financial results.
Just like Denso, Aisin, etc.

That does not mean that they will be managed by Toyota though.
 

Joaquin Ruhi

Expert
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
1,265
Reaction score
1,850
This move also cuts the #1 wars short, as now TMC will produce close to 12m vehicles/year.
Maybe not, despite Subaru being now a Toyota affiliate, they still are outside Toyota Group... Also, we can’t see anything on Toyota Global Newsroom about this move...

This being said, Subaru might keep counting as independent brand for production/sales numbers.
Article literally says they are joining Toyota group and that their results will be included in Toyota results.
I apologise if I am making a petty argument, but this is not how I interpret it. The English version of the article says that "Subaru Effectively Joins Toyota Group" but not *officially* joins the Toyota Group. The article is written from Subaru's perspective, not Toyota's; there is no official word from Toyota that Subaru has joined the Group, so although now closer to Toyota, Subaru is still legally an outsider.
The increased 20% Toyota stake in Subaru was announced back in 27 September 2019 and was mentioned in a Toyota Global Newsroom release:
https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/29916271.html

The press release says nothing about Subaru fully joining Toyota group nor including their results with Toyota's. There is this note, though:

Note: Based on the planned acquisition of shares announced today, the additional shares to be acquired by Toyota would increase Toyota's current 16.83 percent of voting rights in Subaru to a minimum of 20 percent, with Subaru foreseen to become an affiliated company of Toyota.
That could be interpreted as Subaru results reported with Toyota's at some point in the future, but I don't think it's happening anytime soon. If we use the Daihatsu brand as a precedent, a search of "Daihatsu" in the Toyota Global Newsroom reveals that Toyota didn't start including Daihatsu in its sales, production and financial results until calendar year 1999, just after Toyota's stake in Daihatsu increased to a majority 51.2% as of late September 1998. Before that, Toyota's stake in Daihatsu was 34.5%, and Daihatsu results did NOT appear within Toyota's.
 

spwolf

Expert
Messages
2,341
Reaction score
2,321
That could be interpreted as Subaru results reported with Toyota's at some point in the future, but I don't think it's happening anytime soon. If we use the Daihatsu brand as a precedent, a search of "Daihatsu" in the Toyota Global Newsroom reveals that Toyota didn't start including Daihatsu in its sales, production and financial results until calendar year 1999, just after Toyota's stake in Daihatsu increased to a majority 51.2% as of late September 1998. Before that, Toyota's stake in Daihatsu was 34.5%, and Daihatsu results did NOT appear within Toyota's.
this is like twillight zone guys... Subaru had official press conference where its board members said that Subaru is now Toyota group company and its result will be reported under Toyota Group results, and this is where all information comes from in the media.

What seems to be the problem with understanding this? Do you think Subaru CEO and rest of the team are spreading lies and trying to deceive the public?

Not sure why is there so much writing about something so simple.
 

Joaquin Ruhi

Expert
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
1,265
Reaction score
1,850
this is like twillight zone guys... Subaru had official press conference where its board members said that Subaru is now Toyota group company and its result will be reported under Toyota Group results, and this is where all information comes from in the media.

What seems to be the problem with understanding this? Do you think Subaru CEO and rest of the team are spreading lies and trying to deceive the public?

Not sure why is there so much writing about something so simple.
A fair point. I was focusing on the Toyota side of things, without looking at it from Subaru's. On 6 February their Global and Japanese Newsroom posted a 2-page PDF document on the subject:
https://www.subaru.co.jp/press/news-en/2020_02_06_8336/
 

spwolf

Expert
Messages
2,341
Reaction score
2,321
A fair point. I was focusing on the Toyota side of things, without looking at it from Subaru's. On 6 February their Global and Japanese Newsroom posted a 2-page PDF document on the subject:
https://www.subaru.co.jp/press/news-en/2020_02_06_8336/
I think reason that Subaru is confirming this first is to make them feel like important part of company vs toyota buying them and they are becoming just one of the many.

For instance Suzuki mentioned that one of the main reasons they severed ties with VW was that they did not take them as partner instead just wanted to rule on what they do.

Pride, etc, is a big factor in Japan.
 
Top