Porsche tops J.D. Power quality index as Korean brands soar

[CIF]

Between the chairman going to prison, their fuel economy fiasco, and other stories I've heard, not sure if I could ever trust Hyundai as a consumer.

 

[mmcartalk]

Btw- where does John Delorean fit in?...

Technically as another auto-industry CEO arrested on a felony...though his Northern Ireland company, of course, was a lot smaller than Hyundai. And he was eventually acquitted.

BTW, I recommend his book "DELOREAN" if you have never read....it explains many things in detail, especially from his point of view. I have it...along with Lee Iacocca's and Ralph Nader's.....in my automotive/aviation library.

 

[mmcartalk]

Between the chairman going to prison, their fuel economy fiasco, and other stories I've heard, not sure if I could ever trust Hyundai as a consumer.

I was a classic Hyundai-hater once. I couldn't trust them for years, myself, either.....until I saw their products after about the 2000-2005 period. But I understand where you are coming from....and certainly respect your opinion. Even companies that make good products sometimes have not-so-good people running them.

 

[CIF]

I was a classic Hyundai-hater once. I couldn't trust them for years, myself, either.....until I saw their products after about the 2000-2005 period.

But I understand where you are coming from. Even companies that make good products sometimes have not-so-good people running them.

Well the fuel economy fiasco of theirs really made me take notice personally. If they lied about that, what else could they potentially be lying about?

 

[IS-SV]

Technically as another auto-industry CEO arrested on a felony...though his Northern Ireland company, of course, was a lot smaller than Hyundai. And he was eventually acquitted.
.

Arrested and Acquitted. versus Arrested and Convicted. Big difference, fortunately (in my opinion).

 

[mmcartalk]

More on topic new Genisis is getting good sales traction so far. Are discounts reasonable? Which would imply car is selling well on its own merits, that might viewed as impressive given that most regular full sized cars are struggling with sales lately.

Try out a new 2Gen Genesis 5.0L and I think the experience alone will describe it.....more than me or anybody else (even an owner) could on a keyboard.

 

[IS-SV]

Try out a new 2Gen Genesis 5.0L and I think the experience alone will describe it.....more than me or anybody else (even an owner) could on a keyboard.

Yes, coming from the expert on keyboard travel without crossing county line, thanks for that, lol. No actual owners here to give us more than a short test drive perspective anyways.

I will try to rent one in LA when I fly down there next. The roomy back seat and luxury/refinement will be excellent for driving around tall adult relatives.

Otherwise I have zero interest or need to own a lux sedan that big, that bland, and that depreciates that rapidly. Other than the strong and refined power plants and a very nicely tuned chassis especially for a Hyundai/Kia it does not meet my criteria for sports sedans, (not that anybody is claiming it's a sports sedan). I agree that it's probably Hyundai/Kia's best product today, in a lineup of mostly so- so and reliable offerings.

Note: As we see domestic large sedans sales decline steadily, I'm willing to guess who's piece of the pie Hyundai is getting with Genesis sales... Job well done, I'd say.

 

[mmcartalk]

I will try to rent one in LA when I fly down there next. The roomy back seat and luxury/refinement will be excellent for driving around tall adult relatives.

This car, while indeed refined, is more than just about luxury and refinement (unless you consider power to be a luxury). Its acceleration and throttle-response, while not on a par with the best of today's muscle cars (it is relatively large heavy sedan), is similar to the mid-sized (for the period) 400-cubic-inch muscle cars I grew up with in high school...Road Runner, Charger R/T, GTO, Chevelle SS, Torino Cobra, 442, etc...

I found reviewing the 5.0L RWD one of the most pleasant experiences behind the wheel I had had in a while...when I got back and turned in the keys, I had a grin on my face wider than Bugs Bunny's LOL

Note: As we see domestic large sedans sales decline steadily, I'm willing to guess who's piece of the pie Hyundai is getting with Genesis sales... Job well done, I'd say.

Probably the biggest drawback to the Genesis itself is probably the sizable number of people who still think Hyundai builds junk like they did in the 80s and 90s. A horse can be led to water, but............

 

[IS-SV]

This car, while indeed refined, is more than just about luxury and refinement (unless you consider power to be a luxury). Its acceleration and throttle-response, while not on a par with the best of today's muscle cars (it is relatively large heavy sedan), is similar to the mid-sized (for the period) 400-cubic-inch muscle cars I grew up with in high school...Road Runner, Charger R/T, GTO, Chevelle SS, Torino Cobra, 442, etc...
...

Not that anybody cares about hyperbolic fading memories of old rattle trap muscle cars when shopping lux sedans. Yes power and throttle response is a luxury, even a base model turbo4 in BMW 328 is nearly as quick today as that particular V8 in a 4500 pound car, and 40% more fuel efficient too. Yes, premium cars require power, mainstream branded cars do not. All of these better lux cars have better throttle response compared to junky carbureted V8's of the 60's, no surprise given advancements.

I mentioned earlier the declining sales of large domestic sedans, and a lot of those lost sales just shifted to crossover SUVs. I would guess the new Genesis sales contributed some to that sales erosion. I don't think most buyers dwell on the failed cars of 80's and 90's, this car is selling at reasonable rate. Car buyers that actually buy $50K+ cars are smarter than "horses" probably.

Separately top tier brands have continued to grow sales in this mid-large size category.

 

[mmcartalk]

Not that anybody cares about hyperbolic fading memories of old rattle trap muscle cars when shopping lux sedans.

Just a metaphor to show it would get out of its own way....and then some. And you may not care for them, but some of them, in prime condition, bring good money today. The ones, BTW, that came closest to being rattle-traps were the Chrysler-built ones..their quality control was very poor. But, if you prefer, case closed..........I won't mention them any further.

Yes power and throttle response is a luxury, even a base model turbo4 in BMW 328 is nearly as quick today as that particular V8 in a 4500 pound car, and 40% more fuel efficient too. Yes, premium cars require power, mainstream branded cars do not. All of these better lux cars have better throttle response compared to junky carbureted V8's of the 60's, no surprise given advancements.

Today's efficient automatic transmissions also make a big difference. Not as much power is eaten up in the torque-converters as those of yesteryear.

I mentioned earlier the declining sales of large domestic sedans, and a lot of those lost sales just shifted to crossover SUVs. I would guess the new Genesis sales contributed some to that sales erosion.

Perhaps. But not all crossover SUVs benefitted from that. Hyundai itself had the large crossover Veracruz that bombed from poor sales. And the Acura ZDX bombed from poor design AND poor sales.

Now that more large sedans are getting AWD, though (and with gas prices belong relatively low), it will be interesting to see if the sales decline keeps up....AWD, in the past, was one of the advantages that SUVs had, along with higher ground clearance for snow and more room inside. Hyundai, IMO, does one error with the Genesis...they won't sell the 5.0 AWD here in the U.S. like they do with the 3.8 V6. A company rep once told me it was because of the gas-mileage rules here, but whether he was correct or not, I can't say.

this car is selling at reasonable rate.

Yes, my pastor bought one...a 3.8, and loves it. He doesn't need the 5.0L's power.

Car buyers that actually buy $50K+ cars are smarter than "horses" probably.

Many vehicles in that category are leased instead of bought. It allows people to get a more expensive vehicle with the same monthly payments as for a cheaper vehicle....especially if they can deduct the lease payments for business use.[/quote]

Hyundai's higher depreciation, though, doesn't always allow as easy lease-conditions as, say, BMW and their well-known lease programs.

 

[IS-SV]

Just a metaphor to show it would get out of its own way....and then some. And you may not care for them, but some of them, in prime condition, bring good money today. The ones, BTW, that came closest to being rattle-traps were the Chrysler-built ones..their quality control was very poor. But, if you prefer, case closed..........I won't mention them any further.

[/QUOTE]

Others aren't commenting, because they are literally better at ignoring as usual.

But uhhhhh, yes we know all that, thank you. Topic being....

 

[nabbun]

Porsche! I love Porsche! Wait, what are we talking about?

 

[IS-SV]

Porsche! I love Porsche! Wait, what are we talking about?

Yes, it's certainly not clear when you read much of what's here, lol.

Agreed, Porsche has done nice job in a lucrative semi-exotic premium niche.

 

[mmcartalk]

Porsche! I love Porsche! Wait, what are we talking about?

Do you have a Porsche.......or are interested in buying or leasing one?

 

[nabbun]

Do you have one?

I grew up with a Black 944 in the family.

I aspire to own a Porsche myself, one-day.

 

[mmcartalk]

I grew up with a Black 944 in the family.

Nice car. A late friend of mine (who unfortunately passed from cancer) had a 944 he kept and drove for a number of years. I drove it myself on a couple of occasions.

I sampled a new Boxster not long ago. Hard to ask for a nicer all-around 2-seat roadster. The Miata, of course, is fun (and cheaper).......but is not as refined.

 

[mikeavelli]

Porsche is on the radar in this household....We have one in the Vossen family for a couple of years and its been rock solid (a 911 Convertible base). I will have a review on it and a 4S very shortly.

I just wish the Panamera seated 5 and not 4...and you need to drop 200k for the LWB lol...

 

[IS-SV]

^ 911 coupe base or S is my favorite. 2009-on engines without the IMS (intermediate shaft) have been solid.

I'm very much looking forward to your review of 4S.

 

[mmcartalk]

Porsche is on the radar in this household....We have one in the Vossen family for a couple of years and its been rock solid (a 911 Convertible base). I will have a review on it and a 4S very shortly.

I just wish the Panamera seated 5 and not 4...and you need to drop 200k for the LWB lol...

A 911 convertible.....that must be fun on sunny days. And they don't spin out like they once did with drop-throttle snap-oversteer.

The Panamera brings back some review memories for me...not all pleasant. I was test-driving one several years ago when some idiot in a Civic decided to quickly make a left turn from the right lane....right in front of me. It's moments like that when you have to make split-second reactions......and you find out just how good Porsche steering/suspension/braking systems are.