Official 2016 BMW 7 Series Thread

[mmcartalk]

Reading through the reviews this morning, it seems that BMW has improved on their 7 Series formula, but they are not close to taking down the S Class.

I suppose that's about what I expected.

That's true, but consider, though, that, at least in American-spec trim, the 7-series starts at 81K, while the S-class sedan starts at 95-96K. That 15K difference obviously has to go for something....otherwise there wouldn't be much incentive for buying an S-class in the first place.

 

[Och]

That's true, but consider, though, that, at least in American-spec trim, the 7-series starts at 81K, while the S-class sedan starts at 95-96K. That 15K difference obviously has to go for something....otherwise there wouldn't be much incentive for buying an S-class in the first place.

That difference doesn't amount to anything, because these cars are leased by well to do people, for whom an extra $100-200 per month don't mean anything, these payments are likely business tax write offs anyway.

People have their own preferences, and while overall the S class is clearly a better car some prefer the 7 series because S class is just too huge (only sold in LWB version in the US). Also, with Lincoln Towncar having been discontinued more and more limo companies are buying S class. From my own observation at least 80% of black S class in NYC have T&LC plates (also true for black Tahoes, Avalons, and even some LS460's). There's that stigma associated with cars that are commonly used for limo duty - nobody spending 100k on a car wants to be confused for a chauffeur.

And then there is the technology inside the car, which is perhaps the most important thing nowadays. Much like people having their preference with phones (blackberry vs droid vs iphone), computers (windows vs mac vs linux) its the same with cars. Once you are used to i-drive, its very hard to switch to an unfamiliar new interface, especially now with BMW's remote services account that is tied in to i-drive, phone apps and computer apps.

 

[CIF]

I think the 7's main problem has been that most BMW buyers want agility and maneuverability. While the 7 series (being a BMW) steers and handles well by large-car standards (and the 550GT I reviewed, though somewhat ungainly-looking, actually uses a 7-series chassis), it is simply too large and heavy to have the kind of road-manners that many BMW enthusiasts are looking for.....even the M7.

That's not exactly what I meant. For the 7 to attract new buyers, outside of the traditional BMW market, like LS and S-Class buyers, the 7 has always needed something really unique and exceptional to draw in and attract those buyers. In North America, the 7 hasn't been able to do that for a long time, and this new generation doesn't change things much. Looking at it another way, if you ask a few simple questions, you quickly see why the 7 is in the current market position that it is in North America. Has the 7 been more luxurious/comfortable than the LS or S-Class in modern times? Has the 7 offered more innovations than the LS or S-Class? The answer to both of those is no. 7 sales in Europe have held strong mostly due to the incredible reputation and brand loyalty of BMW in Europe, that's pretty much it. That and some European drivers preferring the very sharp and more agile handling of the 7.

Even this new 7 model doesn't change things much. It's new innovations (most of them "gee-whiz" technology features mostly attracting younger buyers) are questionable in their usefulness and utility. What's not questionable is they don't really add much to the luxury or prestige of the vehicle. The innovations on the current S-Class offer more utility, luxury, and prestige IMHO. I think the market will agree with this too. Even the almost-1o-year old current LS stacks up fairly well to the new 7.

 

[mmcartalk]

That's not exactly what I meant. For the 7 to attract new buyers, outside of the traditional BMW market, like LS and S-Class buyers, the 7 has always needed something really unique and exceptional to draw in and attract those buyers. In North America, the 7 hasn't been able to do that for a long time, and this new generation doesn't change things much. Looking at it another way, if you ask a few simple questions, you quickly see why the 7 is in the current market position that it is in North America. Has the 7 been more luxurious/comfortable than the LS or S-Class in modern times? Has the 7 offered more innovations than the LS or S-Class? The answer to both of those is no. 7 sales in Europe have held strong mostly due to the incredible reputation and brand loyalty of BMW in Europe, that's pretty much it. That and some European drivers preferring the very sharp and more agile handling of the 7.

Even this new 7 model doesn't change things much. It's new innovations (most of them "gee-whiz" technology features mostly attracting younger buyers) are questionable in their usefulness and utility. What's not questionable is they don't really add much to the luxury or prestige of the vehicle. The innovations on the current S-Class offer more utility, luxury, and prestige IMHO. I think the market will agree with this too. Even the almost-1o-year old current LS stacks up fairly well to the new 7.

OK, I'll agree with that, looking at it from that point of view. And it's true that sales of the 7-series, at least here in the U.S., lag behind the LS and S-Class (though not necessarily in the local D.C. area here, where EVERYTHING sells) . But, at the same time, it's rare for any big flagship from a luxury car-maker to outsell its smaller, lower-priced companions. The LS, for example, cannot equal the ES in sales, and the S-Class cannot equal the C-class in sales. That's going to be pretty much a given, no matter how well the top-grade luxury models (LS, S-class, 7 series, A8, ) compete against each other.

 

[mikeavelli]

Reading through the reviews this morning, it seems that BMW has improved on their 7 Series formula, but they are not close to taking down the S Class.

I suppose that's about what I expected.

Also note they still will sell the 6 cylinder 740 along the 750.

 

[CIF]

OK, I'll agree with that, looking at it from that point of view. And it's true that sales of the 7-series, at least here in the U.S., lag behind the LS and S-Class (though not necessarily in the local D.C. area here, where EVERYTHING sells) . But, at the same time, it's rare for any big flagship from a luxury car-maker to outsell its smaller, lower-priced companions. The LS, for example, cannot equal the ES in sales, and the S-Class cannot equal the C-class in sales. That's going to be pretty much a given, no matter how well the top-grade luxury models (LS, S-class, 7 series, A8, ) compete against each other.

Well that wasn't a topic being discussed here, big flagship sales vs smaller companions.

Reviews so far, as Gecko pointed out, are not ecstatic or raving. Most reviews so far seem to conclude that it's "good enough" to stay modern and competitive. Certainly doesn't seem like a product that's going to shake the industry.

 

[mmcartalk]

Well that wasn't a topic being discussed here, big flagship sales vs smaller companions.

Well, that's true from an ultimate standpoint, but the 7-series is somewhat unusual in that regard. It also shares its basic short-wheelbase platform (as opposed to the longer one) with the 550GT....and, unfortunately, neither one have really been good sellers. Even in the auto-rich D.C. area here, I've only seen a couple of 550 GTs on the road.

(And, with that statement I just made, I might have to revise one I made just before that......that EVERYTHING in the D.C. area sells. The 550 GT is one of the very few mainstream vehicles that don't).

 

[CIF]

Well, that's true from an ultimate standpoint, but the 7-series is somewhat unusual in that regard. It also shares its basic short-wheelbase platform (as opposed to the longer one) with the 550GT....and, unfortunately, neither one have really been good sellers. Even in the auto-rich D.C. area here, I've only seen a couple of 550 GTs on the road.

(And, with that statement I just made, I might have to revise one I made just before that......that EVERYTHING in the D.C. area sells. The 550 GT is one of the very few mainstream vehicles that don't).

Don't quite get where you're going with this? Unusual in what regard?

 

[mmcartalk]

Don't quite get where you're going with this? Unusual in what regard?

Unusual in that a 7-series BMW shares its platform with a 5-series product.....although, in this case it may not be terribly relevant considering the 550GT's very low sales. Still, most, if not all, of its competitors do not share flagship platforms with vehicles lower down the line.

 

[CIF]

Unusual in that a 7-series BMW shares its platform with a 5-series. Most, if not all, of its competitors don't share flagship platforms with vehicles lower down the line.

Ah okay got it. Yeah with that regard, I completely agree. It's great if you're a 5 Series owner, due to prestige, etc. however it certainly looks bad from the perspective of a 7 Series owner. Usually among the top big luxury brands, the midsize prestige sedan (5, E-Class, GS, A6, etc.) shares a platform with the entry-level sedan (3, IS, C-Class, A4, etc.). Not always, but usually.

That further decreases the desirability of the new 7 in my opinion, if it's not on a dedicated high-end platform.

 

[mmcartalk]

Ah okay got it. Yeah with that regard, I completely agree. It's great if you're a 5 Series owner, due to prestige, etc.

The 7-series-based 550GT, though, turned out to be a flop in the American market.....probably from the bulbous-looking rear end that added cargo space but made it look somewhat awkward.

That further decreases the desirability of the new 7 in my opinion, if it's not on a dedicated high-end platform.

I understand where you are coming from, and respect it, but I myself generally don't care so much who or what uses a certain platform so much as how that platform actually operates. For instance, one reason why Buick's Verano and Regal have such nice ride/handling combinations and solidity of materials is because they are not typical or traditional American-designed Buicks. They are German Opel products with GM powertrains and added Buick sound-insulation.

 

[mmcartalk]

Ah okay got it. Yeah with that regard, I completely agree. It's great if you're a 5 Series owner, due to prestige, etc. however it certainly looks bad from the perspective of a 7 Series owner.

I take it that you have never owned a 7-series, CIF? (it does not sell that well in the U.S., but I'm not sure about Canada). I myself could afford a 7-series or one of its competitors if I really wanted it, but I just choose not to spend that much on a car....besides, I usually get a new car about every 5 years or so.

 

[CIF]

I take it that you have never owned a 7-series, CIF? (it does not sell that well in the U.S., but I'm not sure about Canada). I myself could afford a 7-series or one of its competitors if I really wanted it, but I just choose not to spend that much on a car....besides, I usually get a new car about every 5 years or so.

Never owned a 7, but I have driven many BMWs, including several 7 Series generations. Lexus and Toyota are my favorite brands, I could never picture myself owning a BMW. Too many personal hassles for me. Currently can't afford a flagship sedan, but should be able to in the coming future. Not that I'm in the market for one heh. Biggest I would go is midsize prestige class, around GS size. Maybe in a few decades down the road, I'd consider a flagship sedan.

 

[Och]

Excellent overview of the new 7 series.


I was watching a Rolls Royce Wraith overview just a few days ago, and the new 7 series certainly borrows a lot of touches from the Rolls. The BMW brand has definitely upped their game due to their expertise with Rolls Royce, which is probably the most advanced automobile on the planet.

With S class being as advanced as it is, and the new 7 series outdoing it in certain aspects, I wonder if Lexus can catch up. The current LS is really dated in comparison.

 

[mikeavelli]

Excellent overview of the new 7 series.


I was watching a Rolls Royce Wraith overview just a few days ago, and the new 7 series certainly borrows a lot of touches from the Rolls. The BMW brand has definitely upped their game due to their expertise with Rolls Royce, which is probably the most advanced automobile on the planet.

With S class being as advanced as it is, and the new 7 series outdoing it in certain aspects, I wonder if Lexus can catch up. The current LS is really dated in comparison.

As a 2014 LS owner I sadly agree. time for an upgrade...the LS really lacks compared to the new competition but it is quite old, even with the recent update. Looking forward to see what Lexus does.

The only 7 series remotely good looking to me is the M-Sport...

And I am NOT a fan of headlights that touch chrome grills. Looks so blah with no aggressiveness.

 

[Och]

As a 2014 LS owner I sadly agree. time for an upgrade...the LS really lacks compared to the new competition but it is quite old, even with the recent update. Looking forward to see what Lexus does.

The only 7 series remotely good looking to me is the M-Sport...

And I am NOT a fan of headlights that touch chrome grills. Looks so blah with no aggressiveness.

Well, the 7 series has not been a looker except for E38, and especially the 2005 that I had for a short while that was downright ugly. The current LS however is a really great looking car, and knowing you, yours is probably modified to look even better.

I'm also not a fan of the headlight design where they extend to the grille. My 2 series is actually one of the few new BMWs that doesn't have this silly design.

 

[CIF]

We know the LS is old and dated, and a new one is coming. Let's be fair and wait and see how the next-gen LS compares to this new 7, as well as the S Class.

 

[mikeavelli]

So I have seen one in my building and thats about it...the only others I have seen were at Art Basel....mind you I literally live across a big BMW/RollsRoyce/Mini dealer.....

Everything here is still the S-class (Miami)....

 

[spwolf]

So I have seen one in my building and thats about it...the only others I have seen were at Art Basel....mind you I literally live across a big BMW/RollsRoyce/Mini dealer.....

Everything here is still the S-class (Miami)....

yeah, i noticed one when it was just released because all of the chrome it has, otherwise I would not have noticed it at all. I dont think people who dont follow BMW specifically will know this is a brand new vehicle from the outside.

 

[mikeavelli]

yeah, i noticed one when it was just released because all of the chrome it has, otherwise I would not have noticed it at all. I dont think people who dont follow BMW specifically will know this is a brand new vehicle from the outside.

That is a good point.....its harmless and flies under the radar....